Self-Funded TR at Eastern Airways?
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Forget about people leaving in droves, won't happen. The few going to jet2 are an anomaly.
Accountants running airlines don't recognise the term experienced fo. They do recognise the term cheap fo, and courtesy of CTC/OAA there are an abundance.
The industry has changed for good I'm afraid. Go fly a TP, its fun, but don't expect to fly a jet afterwards without self funding the rating.
Accountants running airlines don't recognise the term experienced fo. They do recognise the term cheap fo, and courtesy of CTC/OAA there are an abundance.
The industry has changed for good I'm afraid. Go fly a TP, its fun, but don't expect to fly a jet afterwards without self funding the rating.
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Granted, Eastern have never been the most attractive to work for and I doubt that things will change in the foreseeable future.
Eastern gave me my first job nearly some seven years ago now and whilst the way the type rating is funded has completely changed, the varied and solid experience that one can build on whilst in a first job remains largely unchanged.
I flew the J41 and went all round Europe on charters in addition to seeing all the scheduled network. It was a very solid grounding which meant that when a opportunity to move on came up, I had little problems moving onto a jet and was in the LHS of a jet within 18 months of leaving Eastern.
The salary at Eastern has always been pitiful and there is bugger all in the way of benefits. However it has always been a 'training' airline and that will probably not change. You simply join, build up your experience and move on to something that is more attractive to your wallet and your lifestyle.
I don't agree with the self funded rating modus operandi, however I am not surprised. The salary is low since they will always have people wanting to join and the same can be said for making people cough up for a type rating.
Eastern gave me my first job nearly some seven years ago now and whilst the way the type rating is funded has completely changed, the varied and solid experience that one can build on whilst in a first job remains largely unchanged.
I flew the J41 and went all round Europe on charters in addition to seeing all the scheduled network. It was a very solid grounding which meant that when a opportunity to move on came up, I had little problems moving onto a jet and was in the LHS of a jet within 18 months of leaving Eastern.
The salary at Eastern has always been pitiful and there is bugger all in the way of benefits. However it has always been a 'training' airline and that will probably not change. You simply join, build up your experience and move on to something that is more attractive to your wallet and your lifestyle.
I don't agree with the self funded rating modus operandi, however I am not surprised. The salary is low since they will always have people wanting to join and the same can be said for making people cough up for a type rating.
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Scratchingsky, looks like you left a couple of years ago. As I said the industry is radically different, a couple of years ago may as well be last century.
Lets have a look at where the TP expeirence may take you.
Easy jet - used to be 500 factored hours to apply. Not anymore, its CTC or nought. So much for a variety of backgrounds
Ryanair - got multicrew expeirence? Then no assesment for you
BA - At the present time, Typed only, may change, but even if they do accept TP guys its gonna be a tiny percentage of the required.
Monarch - used to be a good bet. Just taken on Typed only, probably ex CTC flexi crew with 150hrs care of Easy jet. Not likely to change in the future is my guess
Thomson - Will probably recall the redundant pilots first, then any future recruitment would probably be on to the 738 from you know who
Thomas Cook - CTC and that other appalling p2f scheme
BMI main line - Appalling p2f scheme care of a wonderfull Easy jet Captain
Bmi Baby - Buy the rating first, then maybe
Jet2 - bit better, but still pay for the rating
And thats your lot folks, apart maybe for DHL, and the delights of balmy, luxuriant East Germany.
Merry Xmas, and good hunting......
Lets have a look at where the TP expeirence may take you.
Easy jet - used to be 500 factored hours to apply. Not anymore, its CTC or nought. So much for a variety of backgrounds
Ryanair - got multicrew expeirence? Then no assesment for you
BA - At the present time, Typed only, may change, but even if they do accept TP guys its gonna be a tiny percentage of the required.
Monarch - used to be a good bet. Just taken on Typed only, probably ex CTC flexi crew with 150hrs care of Easy jet. Not likely to change in the future is my guess
Thomson - Will probably recall the redundant pilots first, then any future recruitment would probably be on to the 738 from you know who
Thomas Cook - CTC and that other appalling p2f scheme
BMI main line - Appalling p2f scheme care of a wonderfull Easy jet Captain
Bmi Baby - Buy the rating first, then maybe
Jet2 - bit better, but still pay for the rating
And thats your lot folks, apart maybe for DHL, and the delights of balmy, luxuriant East Germany.
Merry Xmas, and good hunting......
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FB - How true.
There is no sensible progressive path through the industry anymore, and the evolution of the P4TR culture (regardless of experience) in the few years since I trained is unbelievable. Unless you are happy to pay each time you want to 'progress up the career ladder', you aren't going to get very far, bar a few exceptions.
Eastern were one of the airlines that appealed to me when I walked away with my shiny blue book, but even they leave a bitter taste in the mouth now. To pay £13k for the type rating and then pay a further £20k plus a few years down the line when you move on is just crazy.
The initial cost might be worth it if it was a one off expense that gave people a start in the industry, allowing them to use the experience gained to move on in the future at no further cost. Alas that is no longer the case and it's pay all the way.
There is no sensible progressive path through the industry anymore, and the evolution of the P4TR culture (regardless of experience) in the few years since I trained is unbelievable. Unless you are happy to pay each time you want to 'progress up the career ladder', you aren't going to get very far, bar a few exceptions.
Eastern were one of the airlines that appealed to me when I walked away with my shiny blue book, but even they leave a bitter taste in the mouth now. To pay £13k for the type rating and then pay a further £20k plus a few years down the line when you move on is just crazy.
The initial cost might be worth it if it was a one off expense that gave people a start in the industry, allowing them to use the experience gained to move on in the future at no further cost. Alas that is no longer the case and it's pay all the way.
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Thats just the way things are now. And it does leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth which is very sad.
So much for the instructor route, turbo prop time which both leave you with no money and just about enough to pay the bills. And then get asked to pay another 20K+ to fly a shiny jet. Invaluable experiance instructing and turbo prop time which I know I am a better/ safer pilot but what about my mates who did not go down that route and just falked out the 30K to fly a jet straight out of training. There better off now money wise, progression ect....but are they safer than me? Are we loosing that standard and experiance over time with these schemes? I believe we are and only time will tell.
So much for the instructor route, turbo prop time which both leave you with no money and just about enough to pay the bills. And then get asked to pay another 20K+ to fly a shiny jet. Invaluable experiance instructing and turbo prop time which I know I am a better/ safer pilot but what about my mates who did not go down that route and just falked out the 30K to fly a jet straight out of training. There better off now money wise, progression ect....but are they safer than me? Are we loosing that standard and experiance over time with these schemes? I believe we are and only time will tell.
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Yes terms and conditions aren't the most glamorous in the industry, but in all fairness the pay ramps up very quickly.
Basic 20500 plus increments, no one earns this amount. Absolutely everyone has an increment from day one. A year 3 scatsta Saab Fo joining the company on 400 hours and building a further 2000 turbine in that time will typically take home 2300 net. I'll add that this pay deal is over three years old and overdue a review. There is no pension, and you will work very very hard, with regular changes on an almost daily basis. However it is an excellent first job, it's a real shame it's not a career.
If you join eastern with high total time and plenty of turbine the money is as good as the 70 percent deals available from jet2 etc. No pension though and you need to be flexible but it's a fun place to work. Breadth of experience and types of flying very wide with great training. Regional, european Acmi charter, VIP charter, cat c airfields.
Including experience in the arctic circle.
Edited after re reading in order to generalise.
Basic 20500 plus increments, no one earns this amount. Absolutely everyone has an increment from day one. A year 3 scatsta Saab Fo joining the company on 400 hours and building a further 2000 turbine in that time will typically take home 2300 net. I'll add that this pay deal is over three years old and overdue a review. There is no pension, and you will work very very hard, with regular changes on an almost daily basis. However it is an excellent first job, it's a real shame it's not a career.
If you join eastern with high total time and plenty of turbine the money is as good as the 70 percent deals available from jet2 etc. No pension though and you need to be flexible but it's a fun place to work. Breadth of experience and types of flying very wide with great training. Regional, european Acmi charter, VIP charter, cat c airfields.
Including experience in the arctic circle.
Edited after re reading in order to generalise.
Last edited by PaulW; 8th Dec 2010 at 20:30.
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Quickly reading your last post Paul W, doesn't look as though it stacks up to me. You are saying that an Eastern FO with 3 years service earns around £37k, give or take £1k for lesser tax burden on the duty pay.
Seems unlikely to me.
Seems unlikely to me.
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Interesting post PaulW, thanks. I'm trying to do my figures at the moment based on my current situation. I'm a turboprop SFO at my current company overseas with roughly 1200TT and 800 turbine, my take home at my current company is about £2100 NET. I'm pretty keen on moving back to Blighty, but only for the right deal. Going by your calculations I'd be looking at taking home about £1700 a month give or take? Would you say that's accurate? If so it is a pay cut I'd seriously consider just to get home.
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Drakestream
I response to Paul W quotes regarding salaries, I would get your Green book before you even attempt to get into Eastern.
All the experience will be looked on as good, but there are different pay scales for First officers and Senior First Officers, without the green book you will be looked on as the latter
I response to Paul W quotes regarding salaries, I would get your Green book before you even attempt to get into Eastern.
All the experience will be looked on as good, but there are different pay scales for First officers and Senior First Officers, without the green book you will be looked on as the latter
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Thanks for the words of wisdom chaps. Am between a rock and a hard place at the moment as I'm tying the knot in three weeks time and don't really want to be spending months on end away from home anymore. However, my current company might, possibly, maybe, at a push, supposedly be getting J41s in the next couple of months. I'm in line to be one of the first to be transferred over to the 41 if it happens. However, it will be on an FAA type rating, so I'll need at least 500 hours on type in order to move the TR on to my JAA licence. That could possibly mean another 9 or 10 months out here after I'm married, which would be less than ideal.
All that being said, I haven't actually been offered anything yet, I've only exchanged a few emails with Steve Jenkins. But fingers crossed.
All that being said, I haven't actually been offered anything yet, I've only exchanged a few emails with Steve Jenkins. But fingers crossed.
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