LH hiring help??
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Florida, USA
LH hiring help??
Hey, I am brand new to PPrune and and was woundering if anyone can help. Currently I am a "glorious" regional pilot in the US on the ERJ145, FO, with about 3000 hrs and with the situation here, well let's just say I prefer going to Europe to fly. I am currently in the process of getting my JAA conversion, ATLP on a 145 type and studying German, as I really want to live and work in Germany with LH or any of their companies. I do plan on learning as much German as possible, even doing a crash corse in Germany for a month (vacation time leave, hopefully febuary).I am reading that I need to know German fluently, then I hear that it is not that important, as long as I know a conversational level, does anyone know what the reality is, I do plan on in time learning fluent German.
Also, anyone know the current pass rate for the DLR, I know it is difficultand I've read other posts of how it is, I am trying to already prepare for it. Also for cityline and the other LH companies, if I fail the DLR, can I try to apply to city-line.
I've always dreamed of LH, but thought I couldn't get a JAA until I looked a little more, so I am motivated to go and preparing as much as possible, but as someone from the US, I was hoping to get some prespective from you guys there as far as what else I need to prepare, it's a little harder to hear the rumers and news in the US about what's going on there
I really appriciate any help and thank you in advance.
Also, anyone know the current pass rate for the DLR, I know it is difficultand I've read other posts of how it is, I am trying to already prepare for it. Also for cityline and the other LH companies, if I fail the DLR, can I try to apply to city-line.
I've always dreamed of LH, but thought I couldn't get a JAA until I looked a little more, so I am motivated to go and preparing as much as possible, but as someone from the US, I was hoping to get some prespective from you guys there as far as what else I need to prepare, it's a little harder to hear the rumers and news in the US about what's going on there
I really appriciate any help and thank you in advance.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,563
Likes: 35
From: I wouldn't know.
Can't really help you on the level of german required, but as the final part of the DLR test has to be passed in german and it contains all the psycho games it should be quite good.
As to cityline and LH, if you fail the DLR-test for either of them, you cannot retry for the other, cityline in that regard is a lufthansa company.
As to cityline and LH, if you fail the DLR-test for either of them, you cannot retry for the other, cityline in that regard is a lufthansa company.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44
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From: Germany
Ok JAR FCL licence you have, German you learn, but what about your permission to work in Germany or EU land?
If you don't have this permission or not holding an EU citizenship this might be the biggest problem.
However if you have the right to work and live in the EU you can also try BA, there you don't face the learning German and the even bigger passing the DLR tests problem.
If you don't have this permission or not holding an EU citizenship this might be the biggest problem.
However if you have the right to work and live in the EU you can also try BA, there you don't face the learning German and the even bigger passing the DLR tests problem.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 205
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From: UK
Hi PradaP,
I'm a brit flying for LH Regional and it was always my dream to fly for LH, so I can understand where you are coming from:-).
Take a look at the posts on the LH Italia thread for information on the DLR tests. You will perhaps already know that the test is split into three parts the GU (Stage 1), Sim Ride (Stage 2) and FU/FQ (Stage 3).
As a non-native speaker I think you would find it very difficult to get into LH itself. Nevertheless they are recruiting and if you fit the requirements (under 34 and with good eyesight) then you might want to give it a try. However, the pass rate (for Germans) is around 10% so you'll have to be prepared to be disappointed.
IMHO you should probably try Cityline. They are wholly owned by LH although not part of the LH KTV(Common Labour Agreement) so you would be restricted to flying up Emb 195 size aircraft at the moment.
The recruitment process for similar CLH (Cityline) is more or less the same as LH but they should allow you to take the GU in English (as you have seen from the above answer, Stage 2 and 3 are in German). There are a lot of foreign nationals at CLH and they have been recruiting heavily over the last few years. They did have an age restriction of 38 but removed it recently. Not sure if it is back in force again. Beyond Cityline, the other LH Regional partners Eurowings, Contact Air and Augsburg Airways would also be possibilities. The last two are independent companies but almost fully integrated into LH as far as perks and operations go (but sadly not salary!)
Regarding DLR the basic rule is that to fly under a LH callsign in Germany you need Stage 1 and 2 at least. Stage 3 is needed for CLH, , LH Italia, LH Cargo, Germanwings and. of course, LH itself. The odd one out is Condor, who are also recruiting, and don't require DLR as they have now split from LH.
As to the pass rate, it obviously varies but as a rough guide, 40-50% pass stage 1, most people seem to pass the sim (?) and the the success rate at stage 3 is closely related to the state of the market (although no one will admit this), so it has been very low but is likely to improve as the number of qualified pilots on the market falls.
The bottom line is that, at present, if you want to work in Germany you really need the DLR GU (Stage 1) at least. There are virtually no jobs worth having outside the LH world as Air Berlin seem to be up to strength and any shortfalls are likely to be filled by the demise of Hamburg International last week.
Good luck if you decide to try. It's a long road but worth it if you succeed. LH are every bit as ruthless as Ryanair when it comes to letting people go, but if you can hang onto your job there are a lot of good perks and it's generally a nice place to be.
All the best,
KT
I'm a brit flying for LH Regional and it was always my dream to fly for LH, so I can understand where you are coming from:-).
Take a look at the posts on the LH Italia thread for information on the DLR tests. You will perhaps already know that the test is split into three parts the GU (Stage 1), Sim Ride (Stage 2) and FU/FQ (Stage 3).
As a non-native speaker I think you would find it very difficult to get into LH itself. Nevertheless they are recruiting and if you fit the requirements (under 34 and with good eyesight) then you might want to give it a try. However, the pass rate (for Germans) is around 10% so you'll have to be prepared to be disappointed.
IMHO you should probably try Cityline. They are wholly owned by LH although not part of the LH KTV(Common Labour Agreement) so you would be restricted to flying up Emb 195 size aircraft at the moment.
The recruitment process for similar CLH (Cityline) is more or less the same as LH but they should allow you to take the GU in English (as you have seen from the above answer, Stage 2 and 3 are in German). There are a lot of foreign nationals at CLH and they have been recruiting heavily over the last few years. They did have an age restriction of 38 but removed it recently. Not sure if it is back in force again. Beyond Cityline, the other LH Regional partners Eurowings, Contact Air and Augsburg Airways would also be possibilities. The last two are independent companies but almost fully integrated into LH as far as perks and operations go (but sadly not salary!)
Regarding DLR the basic rule is that to fly under a LH callsign in Germany you need Stage 1 and 2 at least. Stage 3 is needed for CLH, , LH Italia, LH Cargo, Germanwings and. of course, LH itself. The odd one out is Condor, who are also recruiting, and don't require DLR as they have now split from LH.
As to the pass rate, it obviously varies but as a rough guide, 40-50% pass stage 1, most people seem to pass the sim (?) and the the success rate at stage 3 is closely related to the state of the market (although no one will admit this), so it has been very low but is likely to improve as the number of qualified pilots on the market falls.
The bottom line is that, at present, if you want to work in Germany you really need the DLR GU (Stage 1) at least. There are virtually no jobs worth having outside the LH world as Air Berlin seem to be up to strength and any shortfalls are likely to be filled by the demise of Hamburg International last week.
Good luck if you decide to try. It's a long road but worth it if you succeed. LH are every bit as ruthless as Ryanair when it comes to letting people go, but if you can hang onto your job there are a lot of good perks and it's generally a nice place to be.
All the best,
KT
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Florida, USA
Hey, thanks. As far as my EU permit, I herd of people being sponcered a visa/permit/residency as long as requirements are fit, however I do have friends there and plan on using their address, taking care of all of that when I go for my language course there. I read on the visa site it is fairly easy to get a basic residency there.
Yea, I was woundering if the DLR is offered in English, thanks for clarifying, I'll probably just apply to cityline, to not risk my chances with the DLR. I don't mind the 195, but if I wanted to eventually go to LH, lets say in a couple years time, how difficult would that be, or is there a flow-through type program?
Anyone know how life at cityline is? either way, i'm sure it's about 100 times better then life at my company, everyone is figuring out a way to leave.
I was looking at BA also as a back up, but the main goal is living in Germany, it has a place in my heart and my girlfriend wants to move there, as job opportunities in her field are all there, so if I do BA, i'd probably commute, and I've been doing that for 3 years already.
Thanks again, it really helps.
Yea, I was woundering if the DLR is offered in English, thanks for clarifying, I'll probably just apply to cityline, to not risk my chances with the DLR. I don't mind the 195, but if I wanted to eventually go to LH, lets say in a couple years time, how difficult would that be, or is there a flow-through type program?
Anyone know how life at cityline is? either way, i'm sure it's about 100 times better then life at my company, everyone is figuring out a way to leave.
I was looking at BA also as a back up, but the main goal is living in Germany, it has a place in my heart and my girlfriend wants to move there, as job opportunities in her field are all there, so if I do BA, i'd probably commute, and I've been doing that for 3 years already.
Thanks again, it really helps.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,974
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From: Choroni, sometimes
but if I wanted to eventually go to LH, lets say in a couple years time, how difficult would that be, or is there a flow-through type program?
Wish you all the best
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Florida, USA
Yea, thanks, you guys really helped a lot. I might just do that, although I was looking I can do direct entry into the 777 or 747 at BA
that would be nice, lol.
as far as cityline... what type of schedules are there, how many segments/day, destinations they go... that type of stuff, anyone can help?
thanks again, got to go back to learning my German, lol
that would be nice, lol. as far as cityline... what type of schedules are there, how many segments/day, destinations they go... that type of stuff, anyone can help?
thanks again, got to go back to learning my German, lol
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 662
Likes: 3
From: Somewhere in time
About the right to work in the EU I would say, if you dont have it, you wont get it. Means, we have so many pilots in the EU looking for a job, it would be senseless to give visas to non EU pilots.
If you meet the requirements.......well, the right to live and work in the EU is one of the requirements and its one of the first questions in the LH application process. You also need the Abitur, which is the highest school diploma in germany, I dont know what is equal to that in your country, but you have to send your diploma to Berlin to have it accepted.
Its always worth a try, but as long as you dont have the right to work in the EU and you do not really speak german, its not gonna work in germany. We just had an other airline gone bust last week, so as I said, plenty of experienced pilots in germany are looking for a job.
I guess this is not what you want to hear, but it helps you more to give you the facts instead of making you hope. Give it a try and see how far it takes you.
If you meet the requirements.......well, the right to live and work in the EU is one of the requirements and its one of the first questions in the LH application process. You also need the Abitur, which is the highest school diploma in germany, I dont know what is equal to that in your country, but you have to send your diploma to Berlin to have it accepted.
Its always worth a try, but as long as you dont have the right to work in the EU and you do not really speak german, its not gonna work in germany. We just had an other airline gone bust last week, so as I said, plenty of experienced pilots in germany are looking for a job.
I guess this is not what you want to hear, but it helps you more to give you the facts instead of making you hope. Give it a try and see how far it takes you.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 650
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From: Europe
I unfortunately agree, you won't have much of a shot not having the right to live and work in Europe. Think of JAA pilots wanting to move to the US for flying. Not much of a shot for them either as you got plenty of pilots yourself.
As for LH / LH Cityline, I'd say they are probably the two best employers in the German airline world, pay and benefits are quite good - probably OUTSTANDING compared to US Regional level.
As for LH / LH Cityline, I'd say they are probably the two best employers in the German airline world, pay and benefits are quite good - probably OUTSTANDING compared to US Regional level.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 385
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From: where the money is
Dear PradaP,
I admire your spirit and your commitment. If you don't try, you'll never find out.
Excellent approach getting a JAA-license and learning the language - we already have too many immigrants of the wrong kind who aren't making any effort in this direction or to familiarize with the country itself and its inhabitants.
The DLR test is is quite a hurdle to overcome - even for the native speaker - but the biggest show stopper will be the right to live and work in the EU. Contact the German Embassy or look up for more information under: Auswärtiges Amt - Startseite, there switch over to English (if you wish) and click on the button labelled 'Welcome to Germany'.
Maybe your girlfriend can find a job including a sponsor before you do. Then you just marry her and that should take care of your residence and working permit... Good luck!
I admire your spirit and your commitment. If you don't try, you'll never find out.
Excellent approach getting a JAA-license and learning the language - we already have too many immigrants of the wrong kind who aren't making any effort in this direction or to familiarize with the country itself and its inhabitants.
The DLR test is is quite a hurdle to overcome - even for the native speaker - but the biggest show stopper will be the right to live and work in the EU. Contact the German Embassy or look up for more information under: Auswärtiges Amt - Startseite, there switch over to English (if you wish) and click on the button labelled 'Welcome to Germany'.
Maybe your girlfriend can find a job including a sponsor before you do. Then you just marry her and that should take care of your residence and working permit... Good luck!
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 612
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From: Europa
DLR update
Cityline now has all DLR in GERMAN only - they stopped the English test in 2008.
Condor - now require DLR as well according to Interpersonal website.
Get the JAR/EASA licences but I wouldn't bother paying for a type rating unless it's on a type you have >500 h on. Have a look for Airlines with your type eg: BMI Regional.
Condor - now require DLR as well according to Interpersonal website.
Get the JAR/EASA licences but I wouldn't bother paying for a type rating unless it's on a type you have >500 h on. Have a look for Airlines with your type eg: BMI Regional.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
From: europe
Besides learning "enough" German, jumping through all the selection hoops, the biggest problem will indeed be getting a EU working permit - it will be über-difficult!
Have you thought about CX (freighters) with a possible basing in Germany - (if that is where you want to live)?
Or Cargolux?
Good luck and keep up the positive attitude.
Have you thought about CX (freighters) with a possible basing in Germany - (if that is where you want to live)?
Or Cargolux?
Good luck and keep up the positive attitude.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Florida, USA
Yea, thanks. My girlfriend is actually European and we do plan on getting married anyways, hence why i really want to go there, cause she is not comming to the US, lol. I'll check out the Embassy site and the embassy, see if i can get everything settled. I do have a university degree in business/aviation, and it does say equilivant on the website, I will see what Berlin will say about showing a transfer of my degree if i need to. I know it's a lot of work ahead of me, but literally i have no option in the US, due to intagration lists that just came out, i will be stuck as FO regional pilot with brutal work rules/pay for at least 5-6 years before I can be captian, and US required PIC over anything to go anywhere, so it's actually easier for me to go there. As for the type, I will do my ATPL sim ride on my current type, which I have just under 2000 hrs on, probably on my next PC in a couple months, save a few bucks, make my company pay for it, haha, apparently that's what people are doing here. I've been over some hard hurdles before and there are americans going there, albeit not that much, I do know some of us go... and don't worry, I don't plan on being a usless immigrant that doesnt want to be part of the culture, I've actually been commuting back and forth to there for my girlfriend and I love the culture there, being a proper citizen. Not to mention Munich is the first place I had beer when i was younger at the Hofbrauhaus, hence why Germany has a place in my heart, haha
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
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From: VIE
i would try to get into LH Cargo. Longrange from the very first day of employment, many international pilots (although germans are naturally the majority), MD11 , part of the common LH labour agreement, so you are in the LH seniority list, bonded for 5 years until you can apply for any other fleet in the whole comany (e.g. 747, A380...)
imho the best opportunity for ready entries with LH.
, part of the common LH labour agreement, so you are in the LH seniority list, bonded for 5 years until you can apply for any other fleet in the whole comany (e.g. 747, A380...)imho the best opportunity for ready entries with LH.
