Any recruitment likely at Easy?
People do get promoted. I have been. i earn a lot more now. Honestly.
Where did I ever say eJ owe me a Command? A lot of you guys obviously think that all your FO's are owed one though. It doesn't work that way though. Sorry...... it is business
Where did I ever say eJ owe me a Command? A lot of you guys obviously think that all your FO's are owed one though. It doesn't work that way though. Sorry...... it is business
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Pilotsince1999,
I've no problem with that. I do have a problem with some of your pontificating colleagues who think everyone else must be useless.
Your company, and their relationship with CTC, should be a serious concern for you all. FO's first as Flexicrew. Captains next? It's irresistible for your leaders.
That is my point. It is a business first and foremost.
I've no problem with that. I do have a problem with some of your pontificating colleagues who think everyone else must be useless.
Your company, and their relationship with CTC, should be a serious concern for you all. FO's first as Flexicrew. Captains next? It's irresistible for your leaders.
That is my point. It is a business first and foremost.
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I flew with a new CTC flexi crew chap who is treading water as cabin crew.
For his first 500 hours or 8 months he will be earning £1200 a month and his CTC/HSBC loan repayment will be £1000 per month.
He will have to relocate himself to the base of Easy's choice and pay rent, eat, fuel the car and try to have some sort of life, all on just £200 per month for these first 8 months/500 hours.
He's already talking about bankruptcy and his course date is not till the New Year.
What business indeed.
Sounds like Swiss cheese with another 300 more in his position joining in the next 3-6 months.
Yikes......!
For his first 500 hours or 8 months he will be earning £1200 a month and his CTC/HSBC loan repayment will be £1000 per month.
He will have to relocate himself to the base of Easy's choice and pay rent, eat, fuel the car and try to have some sort of life, all on just £200 per month for these first 8 months/500 hours.
He's already talking about bankruptcy and his course date is not till the New Year.
What business indeed.
Sounds like Swiss cheese with another 300 more in his position joining in the next 3-6 months.
Yikes......!
Stansdead,
I know what you are saying and this has been of concern for us. The company did want DEC for the summer and it has been suggested. Our union though, has stopped any direct entry captains from entering the company, apart from a few CTC captains for training and familiarisation for the training of cadets. This to protect there own pilots. The entry of cadets was accepted as they did not disadvantage anyone in the company. Therefore there will be no DEC until the supply of our own runs dry. This has happend a few times in the past, but I don't think it will happen soon again.
The fastest way into the lefthand seat in easy, is to get direct entry into the righthand seat and I personally hope that these opportunities will open up again, as there are a lot of good folks with good experience flying around where the company could benefit a lot from.
I know what you are saying and this has been of concern for us. The company did want DEC for the summer and it has been suggested. Our union though, has stopped any direct entry captains from entering the company, apart from a few CTC captains for training and familiarisation for the training of cadets. This to protect there own pilots. The entry of cadets was accepted as they did not disadvantage anyone in the company. Therefore there will be no DEC until the supply of our own runs dry. This has happend a few times in the past, but I don't think it will happen soon again.
The fastest way into the lefthand seat in easy, is to get direct entry into the righthand seat and I personally hope that these opportunities will open up again, as there are a lot of good folks with good experience flying around where the company could benefit a lot from.
Last edited by pilotsince99; 18th Oct 2010 at 11:52. Reason: spelling....
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Actually, you try to come across as a great professional but you have gained no easy way into where you think you deserve to be as a DEC, Stansdead. You may think you will be welcomed in here, but as you see, you will have no such luck and quite frankly, easyJet is the better place for it. You lost your gamble by gaining a cheap shot at a command thinking that it would open doors to the airlines you wish to join, but it won't. In there lies your defeat. Were it your desire to be a commander, you have succeeded, but that isn't what you wanted now, was it. You wanted to be a captain in a different place than where you are, for whatever reasons you may have for that. That won't happen, happily. Do your time and wait your turn like everybody else, instead of attempting to sneak past while boasting credentials that are not relevant.
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PS1999,
True. I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from. Stay safe, enjoy your flying.
Really annoyed,
You need to grow up. I have not, at any stage said I deserve a DEC at easy. I have said I'm qualified though.
I couldn't care less about being liked, welcomed, disliked or unwelcome. That's being an adult.
Somehow, I do not think you are a Captain. And with your juvenile and petty attitude you probably will fail your upgrade. So, that is one less SFO to promote....and the day draws closer.
Grow a pair, pick your toys up and put your dummy back in. You are embarrassing your profession.
True. I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from. Stay safe, enjoy your flying.
Really annoyed,
You need to grow up. I have not, at any stage said I deserve a DEC at easy. I have said I'm qualified though.
I couldn't care less about being liked, welcomed, disliked or unwelcome. That's being an adult.
Somehow, I do not think you are a Captain. And with your juvenile and petty attitude you probably will fail your upgrade. So, that is one less SFO to promote....and the day draws closer.
Grow a pair, pick your toys up and put your dummy back in. You are embarrassing your profession.
stansted, you said yesterday on this thread, post 147, page 4, 21:22hrs
You wouldn't stand a chance against our hundreds of excellent SFO's who know company manuals and SOP's backwards. And anyway you're not going to get the chance.
There won't be DEC's.
WWW
So, before you go shouting your mouth off, DEC's will happen again in easyJet and I look forward to taking one.
You wouldn't stand a chance against our hundreds of excellent SFO's who know company manuals and SOP's backwards. And anyway you're not going to get the chance.
There won't be DEC's.
WWW
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[QUOTE]I have said I'm qualified though./QUOTE]
You have demonstrated beyond any doubt quite the opposite.
You will not be a DEC at Ezy. Not only because we will not be hiring any DECs anytime soon, neither only because our SFOs deserve their chance ahead of outsiders but mostly because we simply could not be as cruel to force existing FOs to spend so many hours locked in the cockpit with such a arrogant, self important, self serving and narcissistic individual.
You have demonstrated beyond any doubt quite the opposite.
You will not be a DEC at Ezy. Not only because we will not be hiring any DECs anytime soon, neither only because our SFOs deserve their chance ahead of outsiders but mostly because we simply could not be as cruel to force existing FOs to spend so many hours locked in the cockpit with such a arrogant, self important, self serving and narcissistic individual.
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If they are illegal I'm sure they will. If they're not, well, what would you suggest they do? What would you suggest they can do? Wail that "It's not fair"? Lobbying just doesn't work with a hardball company like EJ.
And if these guys are employed by an agency and not EJ then EJ-BALPA can do precisely NOTHING for them in any situation as they do not and can not represent them. BALPA itself could, if the contract is illegal, but that would require the flexicrew guys themselves to organise a campaign with BALPA head office direct. Do you see that as a likely outcome? I doubt the company is losing any sleep over the possibility of that.
And if these guys are employed by an agency and not EJ then EJ-BALPA can do precisely NOTHING for them in any situation as they do not and can not represent them. BALPA itself could, if the contract is illegal, but that would require the flexicrew guys themselves to organise a campaign with BALPA head office direct. Do you see that as a likely outcome? I doubt the company is losing any sleep over the possibility of that.
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I see what your saying Agaricus bisporus. Just wanted to know if they had done anything or not. And no, I don't see that as a likely outcome because I feel that most CTC flexi guys would be just grateful for getting a job on a jet straight from training school, which is exactly why EJ can get away with offering Flexi guys such bad deals. Cheers
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Perhaps highlighting to the travelling public on EZY flights how the flexicrew are abused on the payment front ?? a billboard advertisment outside the airport in a style akin to that which EZY use themselves with a few selected wordings ??
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OutsideCAS,
The problem is that you're talking purely from the perspective of someone who A) understands how badly paid pilots are B) How much work pilots actually DO and C) Someone that thinks that pilots should earn decent money (or at least presumably)
What you [where by you, I actually mean anyone who is involved in professional level aviation] have to understand, is that the general public believe - REALLY believe - that a brand new, out of the box first officer will earn somewhere between £50 and £80k a year. I'm not kidding you, the other week I asked someone what they thought a pilot earned and their view was a captain would be on well >£200k and a first officer £100k. Therefore, sad as it is, the travelling public just don't believe that a pilot earns that little. Then also compare that the national average wage is alleged to be around £27k - so what you're trying to highlight is that these poor little pilots, who only work a max of 900 hours a year, who potentially don't even have 5 GCSEs earn the national average....
You can see that this could be hard to drum up sympathy. You need to paint the whole picture first - and very few have the appetite to hear that.
[And as this is PPRuNe....clearly *I* know that 900 hours is flying time, doesnt' include duty time, doesn't have any factoring for stress or tiredness etc - but most lay men DON'T understand that!]
Major Cleve - I'll come work for you - do you accept (f)ATPL holders with little experience, looking for a first break with a questionable sense of humour...
The problem is that you're talking purely from the perspective of someone who A) understands how badly paid pilots are B) How much work pilots actually DO and C) Someone that thinks that pilots should earn decent money (or at least presumably)
What you [where by you, I actually mean anyone who is involved in professional level aviation] have to understand, is that the general public believe - REALLY believe - that a brand new, out of the box first officer will earn somewhere between £50 and £80k a year. I'm not kidding you, the other week I asked someone what they thought a pilot earned and their view was a captain would be on well >£200k and a first officer £100k. Therefore, sad as it is, the travelling public just don't believe that a pilot earns that little. Then also compare that the national average wage is alleged to be around £27k - so what you're trying to highlight is that these poor little pilots, who only work a max of 900 hours a year, who potentially don't even have 5 GCSEs earn the national average....
You can see that this could be hard to drum up sympathy. You need to paint the whole picture first - and very few have the appetite to hear that.
[And as this is PPRuNe....clearly *I* know that 900 hours is flying time, doesnt' include duty time, doesn't have any factoring for stress or tiredness etc - but most lay men DON'T understand that!]
Major Cleve - I'll come work for you - do you accept (f)ATPL holders with little experience, looking for a first break with a questionable sense of humour...
A company offers an employment contract. Some people apply. They get offered the job. They sign the contract.
Good luck trying to turn that into either a news item or a legal case.
WWW
Good luck trying to turn that into either a news item or a legal case.
WWW
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stansdead - have a read of some of your posts and tell me if you sound like the sort of person you would wish to employ at your own airline. Why, therefore, would we wish to employ you here, when we have so many better candidates among our own people?
Major - having started so well, it really is all starting to unravel. For whatever reason you do not like easyJet, and that is absolutely fine. Plenty of people do not like the low-cost world, and the great thing is you do not have to work here if you do not want to. Possibly harder for you to understand is that quite a lot of people do actually really enjoy working for easyJet, and I am unashamedly one of them. As I have said on numerous occasions, it is not perfect and for very little effort could be so much better. Nonetheless, it has much to commend it, as exemplified by people like stansdead hammering at our door in such an unsavoury manner. That door will remain resolutely closed to him and others like him, simply because we have so many top-quality, highly-motivated First Officers to promote ahead of him. I am proud that we increasingly look after our own, and see that quality as a sign of a maturing, professional airline.
Back to the original question - is there any recruitment likely at easyJet? The answer is yes, both internally and externally. We are recruiting 300 Oxford/CTC pilots who are predominantly low-houred cadets taking up their first job on temporary contracts, which may or may not be made permanent. A significant number of our current temporary flexi-crew pilots will be offered permanent jobs either in November or January (not sure of the exact numbers). We are also internally promoting in excess of 20 Line Captains into Training Captain positions plus upgrading a large number of our current trainers to TRI, TRE etc. In addition we are aiming to promote 168 new captains this coming year. I put it to any reasonable person reading those figures that they are good news by any criteria you care to use. Are we a perfect airline? Absolutely not. Are we a whole lot better to work for than many others out there? Most certainly.
Major - having started so well, it really is all starting to unravel. For whatever reason you do not like easyJet, and that is absolutely fine. Plenty of people do not like the low-cost world, and the great thing is you do not have to work here if you do not want to. Possibly harder for you to understand is that quite a lot of people do actually really enjoy working for easyJet, and I am unashamedly one of them. As I have said on numerous occasions, it is not perfect and for very little effort could be so much better. Nonetheless, it has much to commend it, as exemplified by people like stansdead hammering at our door in such an unsavoury manner. That door will remain resolutely closed to him and others like him, simply because we have so many top-quality, highly-motivated First Officers to promote ahead of him. I am proud that we increasingly look after our own, and see that quality as a sign of a maturing, professional airline.
Back to the original question - is there any recruitment likely at easyJet? The answer is yes, both internally and externally. We are recruiting 300 Oxford/CTC pilots who are predominantly low-houred cadets taking up their first job on temporary contracts, which may or may not be made permanent. A significant number of our current temporary flexi-crew pilots will be offered permanent jobs either in November or January (not sure of the exact numbers). We are also internally promoting in excess of 20 Line Captains into Training Captain positions plus upgrading a large number of our current trainers to TRI, TRE etc. In addition we are aiming to promote 168 new captains this coming year. I put it to any reasonable person reading those figures that they are good news by any criteria you care to use. Are we a perfect airline? Absolutely not. Are we a whole lot better to work for than many others out there? Most certainly.
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NSF
Another wide sweeping statement from you. How can you possibly tell if you have better candidates than me just by anonymous posts. Remember the terms of this forum.... Don't be drawn in.
I'm already doing the job as a Captain on Airbus. I've been doing it a while. How can your logic possibly be sensible, when an SFO has still to pass all the things that I have already passed?
This whole thing has got out of hand. You showed no resolve at all in easyJet to stop the rot for FO's - where was BALPA then? - but you now feel the need to ride your white charger over the hill to protect what you know will inevitably happen somewhere on your network. Indeed it did last summer in easySwiss. Contract Captains no less. Where were you, WWW & reallyannoyed then?
Oh, I remember. You were too busy taking £10k to fly a random roster.
Don't get me wrong, I quite admire all of you for fighting. I don't admire your sweeping statements about people being better or worse than each other.
You are meant to be a trainer fir God's sake. How can you allow yourself to stoop to such unfounded statements? Do you see what I mean?
By all means be annoyed that people like me would like to join your airline as a DEC - even though we all know how you joined - but you should think twice before trying to decide who is a better candidate for a Command job.
As far as I'm aware, I've never met you. I've never flown with you, therefore how can you possibly tell? Is that sixth sense part of the core course?
I'm already doing the job as a Captain on Airbus. I've been doing it a while. How can your logic possibly be sensible, when an SFO has still to pass all the things that I have already passed?
This whole thing has got out of hand. You showed no resolve at all in easyJet to stop the rot for FO's - where was BALPA then? - but you now feel the need to ride your white charger over the hill to protect what you know will inevitably happen somewhere on your network. Indeed it did last summer in easySwiss. Contract Captains no less. Where were you, WWW & reallyannoyed then?
Oh, I remember. You were too busy taking £10k to fly a random roster.
Don't get me wrong, I quite admire all of you for fighting. I don't admire your sweeping statements about people being better or worse than each other.
You are meant to be a trainer fir God's sake. How can you allow yourself to stoop to such unfounded statements? Do you see what I mean?
By all means be annoyed that people like me would like to join your airline as a DEC - even though we all know how you joined - but you should think twice before trying to decide who is a better candidate for a Command job.
As far as I'm aware, I've never met you. I've never flown with you, therefore how can you possibly tell? Is that sixth sense part of the core course?
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WingoWango
Have to agree with you! I have over 3000 hours and a full ATPL, but have "only" flown light turboprops and biz jets. Is the only way I can join by becoming a cadet!!?? If true that's so disheartening!!
Have to agree with you! I have over 3000 hours and a full ATPL, but have "only" flown light turboprops and biz jets. Is the only way I can join by becoming a cadet!!?? If true that's so disheartening!!
Another wide sweeping statement from you. How can you possibly tell if you have better candidates than me just by anonymous posts. Remember the terms of this forum.... Don't be drawn in.
I'm already doing the job as a Captain on Airbus. I've been doing it a while. How can your logic possibly be sensible, when an SFO has still to pass all the things that I have already passed?
I'm already doing the job as a Captain on Airbus. I've been doing it a while. How can your logic possibly be sensible, when an SFO has still to pass all the things that I have already passed?
I can tell just because our exceptionally good SFO community in the Command holding pool wouldn't have posted comments on PPRuNe which made them sound like a complete tool.
I also doubt whether you know the minimum FFRS Cat we can accept and under what circumstance, what our stable approach criteria are and how they differ on a circle to land, how to work our flightplan system, what our Ops Manual says about downgraded equipment and Cat3, how our Roster Agreement impacts on Flight Duty hours or how our FDM scheme works and what its parameters are.
ALL of our SFO's are already masters of all this and much much more and have 4 and a bit years of FDM data and Sim checks to back up the fact that they are the Real Deal.
You. Are an unknown Arse.
A glaring example of why DEC's are such a Titanic risk.
And.
NEVER EVER EVER going to be an easyJet Captain.
Shall we move on? No pressure - this is fun.
WWW