Virgin Atlantic Pilots to ballot for Industrial action
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently a BALPA newsletter went out late on Friday afternoon informing the Pilots that the Company management had asked for the agreement to be re-written to allow them to do what they have been doing??? 
BALPA requested a meeting over this weekend but the Company declined the offer. BALPA have now informed the Pilots and the Company that they are now pressing ahead towards the ballot.
I cant get hold of the newsletter, but it was apparently quite an interesting read.
As the whole issue is about days off, its ironic that the management refused to meet over a bank holiday weekend isn't it.
I hope this show of solidarity by the Pilots does not turn out like the Virgin Cabin Crew dispute some time ago. (But I suppose that was doomed from the start)
BALPA requested a meeting over this weekend but the Company declined the offer. BALPA have now informed the Pilots and the Company that they are now pressing ahead towards the ballot. I cant get hold of the newsletter, but it was apparently quite an interesting read.
As the whole issue is about days off, its ironic that the management refused to meet over a bank holiday weekend isn't it.
I hope this show of solidarity by the Pilots does not turn out like the Virgin Cabin Crew dispute some time ago. (But I suppose that was doomed from the start)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: 30west
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not a chance of it going like the Cabin Crew strike. We are totally united, there is no doubt that the ballot will go massively in favour of industrial action. The talk online is of nothing else. This is about more than just Days Off. Everyone is committed to protecting our agreements using whatever methods we can, which means a strike!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to the Wall Street Journal BALPA has agreed to meet VS management on 6 September.
(UPDATE: Pilots Union Plans Sep 6 Meet With Virgin Atlantic - WSJ.com
If this is right, I think it is commendable (and by way of disclosure, might also fit well with my September travel plans!). My view remains that the pilots have a good case and will, I hope, enjoy the public's support in their battles with VS management.
Does anyone else here agree that any perceived rush to industrial action cannot be a good strategy? Statements like B747Bill's:
seem to me destined to alienate support.
Industrial action should be a last resort, not the first thing to cross one's mind especially in a dispute which management could so easily spin as being about pilots trying to secure 120 days a year off work.
I know the VS pilots have exercised massive restraint over this long-running dispute, but comments like B747bill's could be (mis)interpreted as endorsing a race to a strike. Lose the traveling public's sympathy and it follows that VS might lose more in the weeks, months and years to come - bookings, revenue and jobs.
VS is my favourite airline and I hope the pilots and BALPA tread carefully. There is a great deal at stake here for everyone involved.
(UPDATE: Pilots Union Plans Sep 6 Meet With Virgin Atlantic - WSJ.com
If this is right, I think it is commendable (and by way of disclosure, might also fit well with my September travel plans!). My view remains that the pilots have a good case and will, I hope, enjoy the public's support in their battles with VS management.
Does anyone else here agree that any perceived rush to industrial action cannot be a good strategy? Statements like B747Bill's:
Everyone is committed to protecting our agreements using whatever methods we can, which means a strike!
Industrial action should be a last resort, not the first thing to cross one's mind especially in a dispute which management could so easily spin as being about pilots trying to secure 120 days a year off work.
I know the VS pilots have exercised massive restraint over this long-running dispute, but comments like B747bill's could be (mis)interpreted as endorsing a race to a strike. Lose the traveling public's sympathy and it follows that VS might lose more in the weeks, months and years to come - bookings, revenue and jobs.
VS is my favourite airline and I hope the pilots and BALPA tread carefully. There is a great deal at stake here for everyone involved.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 913
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice to see a pilot community with the balls for a fight with their management. Pity a few more CC's don't draw the line in the sand over the continual chipping away at t's&c's.
Virgin pilots have that rare thing in this industry A DECENT JOB! They should fight to retain it.
Virgin pilots have that rare thing in this industry A DECENT JOB! They should fight to retain it.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Midlands
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
luchboxlegend
That is a b*gger and I am sure none of the pilots want to disrupt yours and your families travels plans and consider industrial action a last resort.
It would appear it is the "Management who will not adhere to the working agreement that is in place".
You mention they are in a good place and others have lost a lifestyle.....
If they do nothing they won't be in a good place and will also lose part of their lifestyle.
It is time pilots stood up for themselves and their lifestyles and start showing how far the airlines will get without them, not very far......!!
That is a b*gger and I am sure none of the pilots want to disrupt yours and your families travels plans and consider industrial action a last resort.
It would appear it is the "Management who will not adhere to the working agreement that is in place".
You mention they are in a good place and others have lost a lifestyle.....
If they do nothing they won't be in a good place and will also lose part of their lifestyle.
It is time pilots stood up for themselves and their lifestyles and start showing how far the airlines will get without them, not very far......!!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is time pilots stood up for themselves and their lifestyles and start showing how far the airlines will get without them, not very far......!!
t t&cs just to have a job, or rather just to be able to say they are a professional pilot. I don't agree with it, but imagine this is a reality that airline management feel they can exploit.For industrial action like this to work (absent a successful legal case being brought by the current VS pilots) solidarity has to exist not just within an airline but across the profession. And not just across those professionals who have a job, but all those qualified and ready to work.
That, I fear, is a step too far for the aviation industry in 2010. We will in a world where, regrettably, the lowest common denominator tends to win.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southampton
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm really sick of people saying "there is a q of pilots as long as your arm ready to work" and "pilots are completely replaceable"! That is just not true. It takes much time, effort and money to become a pilot. So there may (at the moment) be people with CPLs, ATPLs or even ATPLs with loads of hours hanging about waiting for a job but.... a notice period is in the region of 3 months, a type rating is 15 to 25 THOUSAND pounds plus, training takes 2 months plus and costs a company MONEY (uniform, hours, company spiel, admin etc). You are not just an office worker who can move stuff out of a desk and someone else can move in. A company that has a disruptive workforce will cost it dearly. Something most cannot afford at the moment. The rubbish that someone above stated about booking a holiday with Virgin cause the perceived service is better ect. but the important point expressed is that they wanted to "avoid the strikes" so booked with Virgin. This stuff does massive damage to brands. Do not undervalue the professionalism, the skill and its uniqueness of this career. That statement goes to company management but more importantly to pilots. I have no idea about the hardships of pilots at Virgin but please can everyone stop saying there is an immediate crowd of pilots ready to jump in at the drop of a hat. Cabin crew can be replaced with relative ease to keep a schedule going but pilots cannot.... FACT!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southampton
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In fact lunchbox we agree "We, as pilots, are an expensive commodity-we are replaceable (given time and money)". Thats all I'm saying. What company wants to go through this expensive time consuming rigmarole?!
To be fair both BA and Virgin are hit and miss on service. Sometimes they are great and sometimes rubbish but the seat/product is the same. One is shiny and red and the other is blue and well.... british! Ultimately the same thou especially in cattle! Depends on who is working on the day.
I agree that a strike is damaging (and ultimately to the company that supports you) so you only do it if your requests are realistic and acceptable given industry standards. Now I'm out of my depth!!!
To be fair both BA and Virgin are hit and miss on service. Sometimes they are great and sometimes rubbish but the seat/product is the same. One is shiny and red and the other is blue and well.... british! Ultimately the same thou especially in cattle! Depends on who is working on the day.
I agree that a strike is damaging (and ultimately to the company that supports you) so you only do it if your requests are realistic and acceptable given industry standards. Now I'm out of my depth!!!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: narita
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The request is simple, realistic and easy. Stick to the agreements,treat them with respect. Grow up and stop trying to break them. Keep your word. It won't even cost you a penny. Just admit you broke the agreement, state you won't do it again.
As for drastic pay-cuts, VAA pilots have had to suck up approx a 15.5 % cut in real terms. The Company are after more and more. Pilots are being disciplined on a weekly basis. The aim is to divide and conquer and boot the union out, HR have sold the plan to the bosses that they can do it.
VAA used to be one of the target jobs in the industry, I've flown with Captains who are openly planning on quitting the profession just to get away from the septic environment pushed by the VAA Managers.
BA on the other hand took about a 2.5% cut with the promise of share options.
Trust me, this is going all the way. Both sides are bedding down for a long fight.
As for drastic pay-cuts, VAA pilots have had to suck up approx a 15.5 % cut in real terms. The Company are after more and more. Pilots are being disciplined on a weekly basis. The aim is to divide and conquer and boot the union out, HR have sold the plan to the bosses that they can do it.
VAA used to be one of the target jobs in the industry, I've flown with Captains who are openly planning on quitting the profession just to get away from the septic environment pushed by the VAA Managers.
BA on the other hand took about a 2.5% cut with the promise of share options.
Trust me, this is going all the way. Both sides are bedding down for a long fight.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thetruck,
BA took a 2.5% paycut? By this I presume you mean BA's pilots. Being one of them, my net pay has reduced by just over 15% since my "2.5%" paycut. 2.5% was the basic salary cut, the rest was from our hourly pay (which as a percentage at the bottom of the rung is a hell of a lot!) PLUS we will work harder. Of course BA has also cut the SSP pay in order to cover training costs (a type rating) for which they charge £44,000 (salaries are reduced for the first 5 years). Whilst this was the case beforehand, the pilots previously didn't pay for their ATPLs so that is also a gigantic paycut. Not forgetting that it has been some time since BA pilots took a payrise in line with inflation (which is not a payrise, its a pay freeze).
Not complaining, just stating the facts...
BA took a 2.5% paycut? By this I presume you mean BA's pilots. Being one of them, my net pay has reduced by just over 15% since my "2.5%" paycut. 2.5% was the basic salary cut, the rest was from our hourly pay (which as a percentage at the bottom of the rung is a hell of a lot!) PLUS we will work harder. Of course BA has also cut the SSP pay in order to cover training costs (a type rating) for which they charge £44,000 (salaries are reduced for the first 5 years). Whilst this was the case beforehand, the pilots previously didn't pay for their ATPLs so that is also a gigantic paycut. Not forgetting that it has been some time since BA pilots took a payrise in line with inflation (which is not a payrise, its a pay freeze).
Not complaining, just stating the facts...
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Merry old England
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm afraid the management is now rotten to the core, starting at the top with the CEO who has admitted operating criminally.
How on earth a proven/admitted criminal can still run the airline is beyond me.
Pathetic, cowardly management!
The fact that these people want to dishonour a legal contract comes as no surprise.
How on earth a proven/admitted criminal can still run the airline is beyond me.
Pathetic, cowardly management!
The fact that these people want to dishonour a legal contract comes as no surprise.
Cool Mod
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 6,185
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heads up guys. If you name names your post WILL be deleted - that has just happened.
If you allude to people whether in name or not it will be deleted. If you use sideways snide swipes at people by using initials it will be deleted. Answer?
Don't do it. Read the rules you signed up to. Repeats of the above will get you a ban.
If you allude to people whether in name or not it will be deleted. If you use sideways snide swipes at people by using initials it will be deleted. Answer?
Don't do it. Read the rules you signed up to. Repeats of the above will get you a ban.
Please can we allow BALPA or the VACC to publish any info on this matter as they've requested, rather than giving a running commentary on our dirty washing in public. The Daily Mail is undoubtably reading these posts with interest.
What will happen will happen
What will happen will happen
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorted!
From the BALPA website:
VIRGIN PILOTS' DISPUTE ENDED
BALPA is pleased to reassure families and the travelling public that it has resolved its dispute with Virgin Atlantic.
BALPA General Secretary Jim McAuslan said: 'Both sides have conducted talks that were frank, to the point and creative. Whilst the issue has created much debate, we are now happy with both the agreement and the ground that has been laid for our future relationship with the company.
'Pilots will have the minimum 120 rostered days off a year - the equivalent of an office worker's weekends and bank holidays - which was in our original agreement but we will not be seeking compensation.
'This was never a matter of money; it was always one of lifestyle.
'In our discussions with the company we have identified a range of relationships and processes that can be improved. We are looking forward to working with Virgin Atlantic on these matters to ensure that our industrial relations is on a more professional and progressive footing.'
VIRGIN PILOTS' DISPUTE ENDED
BALPA is pleased to reassure families and the travelling public that it has resolved its dispute with Virgin Atlantic.
BALPA General Secretary Jim McAuslan said: 'Both sides have conducted talks that were frank, to the point and creative. Whilst the issue has created much debate, we are now happy with both the agreement and the ground that has been laid for our future relationship with the company.
'Pilots will have the minimum 120 rostered days off a year - the equivalent of an office worker's weekends and bank holidays - which was in our original agreement but we will not be seeking compensation.
'This was never a matter of money; it was always one of lifestyle.
'In our discussions with the company we have identified a range of relationships and processes that can be improved. We are looking forward to working with Virgin Atlantic on these matters to ensure that our industrial relations is on a more professional and progressive footing.'
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good news all round.
Slap me down if this is too off-topic, but does anyone have a feel for why the BALPA/VS dispute was resolved but BASSA/BA has, to date, not been.
Where do people think the credit and blame lie? The unions? The employers? The employees?
Interesting to wonder whether BASSA/BA is the perfect storm...
Slap me down if this is too off-topic, but does anyone have a feel for why the BALPA/VS dispute was resolved but BASSA/BA has, to date, not been.
Where do people think the credit and blame lie? The unions? The employers? The employees?
Interesting to wonder whether BASSA/BA is the perfect storm...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Kent
Age: 47
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This will rear its head again. As will the same kinds of arguments about T&C's in many other airlines. The gradual erroding of T&C's will continue due to the fact that pilots only complain when it directly affects them or only within their particular airline.
It starts at the bottom with the whole P2F thing which has made a joke of the FO's position. Whilst captains and senior FO's with their 000'sof hours just turned a blind eye to it because it didnt affect them. Well it is slowly moving up the chain. What next? 0 - captain for £500,000?
The fact that the general public have such a high opinion of pilots is the reason it is not a minimum wage job yet. That will soon change if its allowed to carry on.
Pilots from all airlines and all levels should be united against this cancer that is slowly deteriorating and making a mockery of the whole proffession. Its time BALPA stepped in.
It starts at the bottom with the whole P2F thing which has made a joke of the FO's position. Whilst captains and senior FO's with their 000'sof hours just turned a blind eye to it because it didnt affect them. Well it is slowly moving up the chain. What next? 0 - captain for £500,000?
The fact that the general public have such a high opinion of pilots is the reason it is not a minimum wage job yet. That will soon change if its allowed to carry on.
Pilots from all airlines and all levels should be united against this cancer that is slowly deteriorating and making a mockery of the whole proffession. Its time BALPA stepped in.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Twilight Zone
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Its time BALPA stepped in'.
I think BALPA did step in and did a superior job. Without them and a united workforce things may have been somewhat different for the boys and girls at VS! Well done to all involved.
TBE.
I think BALPA did step in and did a superior job. Without them and a united workforce things may have been somewhat different for the boys and girls at VS! Well done to all involved.
TBE.
