Virgin Atlantic Pilots to ballot for Industrial action
 

Pilots at Virgin Atlantic are apparently about to be balloted on Industrial action. The dispute which has rumbled on quietly for some months is finally coming to a head.

BALPA (the Pilots union) claims that Virgin Atlantic management are violating their industrial agreement by reducing the annual entitlement of "Rostered Days Off" if they go sick or take leave? Currently Virgin Pilots are entitled to 120 rostered days off + annual leave. BALPA contends the 120 Rostered days off are the Pilots weekends. So the frequently asked question is; do Mon-Fri/office staff have their Saturdays and Sundays taken away from them if they go sick or take leave during the working week? No, of course they don't. So why do Virgin Atlantic think it is right to do this to their Pilots. Particularly if it is clearly against the rules of their industrial agreement? Perhaps Virgin believe that at the moment the unions are weak and an easy target in their efforts to reduce costs.

This dispute is apparently just one of a string of issues that Virgin Atlantic Pilots have with their management. The Pilots assert that over the last 2 years they have "bent over backwards" to help the company through some of the toughest times the airline industry has ever faced. They have sacrificed pay and overtime to reduce redundancies. Some Pilots have voluntarily reduced their hours and some have been forced to take sabbaticals. But it is widely known that Virgin Atlantic management have a history of taking advantage of union concessions. It now seems that this latest dispute will prove to be "The straw that broke the Camels back". The Pilots are fed up with the current style of "Management by imposition", some believe there is a clear and present ambition to break the union.

Evidence of a far reaching and very well planned retaliation campaign by BALPA is now starting to come to the surface. Stickers with the slogan "Hands Off our Days Off" have been appearing far and wide around the Virgin network. Numerous CD's of video presentations are in circulation. And a flurry of BALPA news letters have been dropping through letter boxes. Support has evidently been easy to gather as many have become disillutioned with a few of their management figures and it now seems that the Pilots are about to deliver the ultimate industrial message.

Both sides have so far been keen to keep the dispute under wraps as all are conscious of how a dispute could hinder the recovery from the effects of recession, but alas all the talking seems to have failed and it looks set to go to a ballot for industrial action. And there is little doubt as to the result.

But the solution to this dispute is so blindingly obvious that it has dumbfounded all those involved, leaving only one conclusion. Virgin are trying to bust the union.

How many duty hours a year typically for Virgin crew?

Sir George Cayley

Surely, high income Virgin Atlantic pilots couldn't possibly consider taking industrial action which would inconvenience thousands of passengers. It just wouldn't be professional. It is my understanding, through pilot comments on these forums, that only Spanish controllers can be so unprofessional :E

It's wonder what all the fuss is about working for Virgin.

I'd rather eat my own head!

AVMAN: Pilot's don't start riots while at work, that's the difference. I'm referring to 'the' video!

Converse - you might need to go into more detail
52 weeks @ 2 (sat+sun) = 104. Where does the 120 come from average 10 days off a month or??
When taking leave do Crew take Mon-Fri (5 days) and have the Sat-Sun either side as off days which are part of the 120?.
Is the dispute over average days off per month or year. I can understand if days off are pro rata'd down when on leave / sick i.e. you couldn't expect to have 10 days off a month when you also have 2 weeks leave...
I don't know how much leave VS crews have but guessing at say 30 with 120 days off that seems low for a purely L/H roster (just back from JFK as a pax so sympathy high today..):\

Has the ballot been confirmed yet because I can't find any mention of it elsewhere on the internet?

Mr Angry, add public holidays as well.

104 + 8 = 112 still 8 short!:eek:

Are we really comparing days off with people who have the luxury of coming home every night after work, see their family every day and always sleep in their own bed? ;)

If it states in your contract you are entitled to 120 days rostered free of duty, that's what you should get.

Sick days are not necessarily rostered days off. If you are on a part time contract, then pro rata works.

All companies are taking the piss now, time is coming to show them a little militancy.

D and F :hmm:

Just an observation...you can probably omit the last sentence in your first post, converse. at this point, from what we all see and hear we can take it for granted that the people who claim to know what's 'best for the airline' (note: CLAIM to know what's best) are ALWAYS trying to break the unions!

Fair play to the Virgin guys. Hope they get what they deserve, it's a sad and slippery slope the industry is on at the moment.

Just so as the "know it alls" (who actually don't) can get some grip on the reality of the situation, this is a dispute about agreements and contracts, not just "days off" as the "ignoranti" would have you believe. In order to simplify it and dilute it into something more "soundbitish" that the "ignoranti" can perhaps grasp, you will need to understand some of the nuances of long-haul flying and the rostering procedure.

Again, simply putting it (for the ignoranti" of course), the pilots receive a roster approximately two weeks before the following month so that they can paln their lives and their days off. On the rosters there are "Rostered Days Off" (RDO) and "Non Rostered Days Off" (NRD). An NRD is a day off that you have no control over. They are only ever rostered the day after a trip. For example, the shortest long-haul trip is three days long. Day one you operate out to destination. Day two you operate back from destination but it is usually overnight (at least when eastbound) and you arrive back on day three. The rest of day three is a "rest day".

Once again, for the "ignoranti" the jet-lag associated with long-haul flying does have an effect on your lifestyle and it is not simply a case of arriving back home and just getting on with it. Normally, on a one night (three day) trip you would get a minimum of two days off after the trip. However, if you are delayed down route and you arrive a day later than planned, and, if the "day off" (fourth day) after your trip is rostered as an NRD you are not entitled to any compensation for having worked on a day off. Likewise, should you arrive at work before the trip and they require you to operate a two night trip (four days instead of three), you would not be compensated for working the fourth day.

So, in order to differentiate, between RDOs and NRDs, the company can require you to work on an NRD. It is not a day off that you can plan ahead with. Whilst delays down route are unavoidable from time to time, you could end up working an extra day. If it was an RDO then you would be entitled to compensation. However, if your one night trip (three days) has an RDO rostered after it and you arrive at work and they tell you you are now going on a two night trip (four days) you can politely decline or accept compensation.

In the agreement signed between the flight ops management and BALPA at Virgin Atlantic, it clearly states that the pilots will be rostered 120 "RDOs" a rostering year. It is only reduced on a yearly basis by ten days for each standby month a pilot is rostered. On a monthly basis, the number of RDOs can be reduced by one day for every three days annual leave or three days sickness. However, the short fall of 120 RDO's has to be made up over the rostering year. All the company has to do to get this right is change some NRDs into RDOs which they have suddenly been doing. However, the flight ops management have decided to challenge BALPA over their interpretation of the agreement and have cynically stated that if a pilot does not work over an NRD then that "retrospectively" becomes an RDO!!!

So, for the "ignoranti", the long haul pilots do not have the luxury of those who work 9-5 Monday to Friday. They do not know what days off they will be working more than six weeks ahead. They like to have some stability over their lives and therefore would like their flight ops management to stick to the agreements that they have signed with them. This dispute is only one of several that are simmering in the background since the current flight ops management team decided that they were on a roll after breaking the cabin crew and the engineers unions (and subsequent lack of them).

The pilots are not "militant" and they are not stupid. They have all worked hard to get to where they are. They all put in the effort and the time with other airlines over the years. They are a goal oriented workforce who never fail to pull out all the stops to get their aircraft and passengers to to their destinations when, invariably, something goes wrong (more often than not due to management incompetence). Their flight ops management, however, have decided that they can break the union and thereby erode the pilots terms and conditions at will. With around 95% BALPA membership together with dedicated and hard working reps, the pilots are resolved to show their flight ops management that they will not accept these methods. The flight ops management think that their pilots do not have the resolve. The pilots know that they do.

If it ever gets to ballot, then perhaps their flight ops management will realise that they are in a no-win situation. The pilots hope that their flight ops managers come to their senses before their own bosses realise that they have to deal with the damaging results of possible industrial action. The pilots do not want this fight and it is not necessary if the flight ops management stick to the agreements in place.

'In the agreement signed between the flight ops management and BALPA at Virgin Atlantic, it clearly states that the pilots will be rostered 120 "RDOs" a rostering year. It is only reduced on a yearly basis by ten days for each standby month a pilot is rostered'.

If the above is true. I fail to see how the VS management can win this debate!
Good luck to all the Guys and Gals at VS, its about time someone stopped the erosion of Pilots T&C's.

HO,
Yes, after retirement it was great to be able to plan ahead.
Not wishing to get into a Monty Python four Yorkshiremen comparison but, in my last outfit, when I mentioned our roster, the boss said "I didn't know you read fiction!"
Unlike many, I was in a position where I could resign and that's what I did.

Over the last 5 years we have very slowly seen our T's and C's picked at by different managers, the more senior ones have repeatedly tried to sideline or just ignore our agreements and I have had enough of this "death by a thousand cuts". For some time now I have been totally against helping the company out. This went totally against my beliefs, but as my management do not seem to care about how my homelife is affected by never being home at weekends, never getting any satisfactory bids, always missing birthdays and anniversaries, continually being pestered on my days off as we clearly do not have enough pilots, repeated 95hr rosters and not getting over time. I can think of no finer way to voice my discontent than by giving myself some extra days off! Bring on the ballot! From what I see at work just about everyone feels the same. Which is a shame as we could have a really nice little outfit with everyone more than happy to their bit and probably a bit more when needed. But that is not the case right now.

Heavy - had converse put it like that then there would be no questions from the "ignoranti".
main_dog - guess so, last year i had 99 days off and leave as a "ignoranti 9 to 5 er" (in fact a 0900-2030 er)
Compare that to a VS pilot on 120 days off + 30? days leave - yeah why not bring it on....
:\:\

Well then you're not the typical 9-5 office staff that was being referred to... perhaps you should have obtained an ATPL? :}

But if it's days off you seek, I wouldn't recommend it: there are fewer and fewer of those for pilots industry-wide. And aside from those "lucky" low-cost pilots, remember most nights you'll still be sleeping in some hotel instead of your own bed... :{

Amazing how people with less think that everyone should drop down to their level instead of pulling themselves up....That is why the industry is going to hell in a hand cart!
Good luck to all the Virgin Pilots in defending their agreements...

Huh. Reason we can't get the trips/leave/ days off we want is that the management take them all. Weekends off? Only if you're an office pilot. Nepotism? You bet. Oh and what about the World Cup trip? It was supposed to be done fairly in order that anyone could bid for the flight. What happened? A senior trainer turned up at the last minute and took the flight.
There's even a senior manager who hasn't flown for a couple of years still calls himself captain. Egotistic?
These are just a couple of other examples why folks like me are totally fed up.

If the agreement is in place then perhaps legal action is the way ahead. It would retain far more public support that industrial action.