To all you new cadets at ryan
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Biscuit74
Thank you for your comments. I agree wholeheartedly of course, and hope (probably in vain, alas) for the day when like minded people make their way back into airline management!
Thank you for your comments. I agree wholeheartedly of course, and hope (probably in vain, alas) for the day when like minded people make their way back into airline management!
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Correct. Real Airlines do not require new hires to pay for ratings.
That is purely a feature of the "bottom feeders"
Lurid colours mandatory (blue/ yellow or orange usually, though often including stars).
That is purely a feature of the "bottom feeders"
Lurid colours mandatory (blue/ yellow or orange usually, though often including stars).
Gender Faculty Specialist
Bruce,
They don't specify 500 hours jet time OR 1000 t/p command time. It says...
Maybe my highlighting confused you but that means either 500 hours jet command time OR 1000 hours t/p command time.
I don't know who mike hammer works for but at my lot there are/were F/O's getting a command on the Q400 with 2000TT. So another year and a month on top of that and you have your 1000 hours command time, no bond and you didn't pay however many thousands of pounds to get a job. And I know Dragonair are not in the EU but I didn't say they were and nobody has really specified that have they?
I haven't destroyed the non P2F route in the slightest. I am merely pointing out that YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY TO GET A FLYING JOB with useful hours.
Do you really think that someone with "500 hours P2F time" will be considered above someone who has flown and proved themselves in regional flying in Europe with over a 3000 hours and command time? The answer to that is a resounding no by the way.
They don't specify 500 hours jet time OR 1000 t/p command time. It says...
either 500 jet hours or 1000 multi engine turbo prop hours in command of a multi crew operation
I don't know who mike hammer works for but at my lot there are/were F/O's getting a command on the Q400 with 2000TT. So another year and a month on top of that and you have your 1000 hours command time, no bond and you didn't pay however many thousands of pounds to get a job. And I know Dragonair are not in the EU but I didn't say they were and nobody has really specified that have they?
I haven't destroyed the non P2F route in the slightest. I am merely pointing out that YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY TO GET A FLYING JOB with useful hours.
Do you really think that someone with "500 hours P2F time" will be considered above someone who has flown and proved themselves in regional flying in Europe with over a 3000 hours and command time? The answer to that is a resounding no by the way.
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Chesty,
ok, appreciate your viewpoint, however you also have to consider that in certain cases management may be dumbasses, but their asses ain't dumb.
Taking the view of going off to 'XYZ' carrier for 3 years because of getting a free type rating out of it, and having to stick out three years before bumping off to another carrier with your TR, will do what exactly ?
As an operator, that is an expense they are going to have to carry. Not just the cost of TR, but the cost of advertising, interviewing, training, line checking, dealing with crewing issues etc etc over a large number of pilot every three years.
That cost has to be picked up somewhere. If using a carrier for a 'free' TR that cost in the operational overheads will have to be passed on to somewhere.
The passengers ?
That puts an overhead on the ticket price, which in comparison to another carrier that doesnt have a high pilot turnover getting their 'free' TR's, which then maken the operator un competetive in the market place. Bingo, the growth and expansion of the airline is now limited.
Taking the attitude of belting off to a carrier for a 'free' TR then bouncing out elsewhere is equally as responsible for the descent of T&C's.
ok, appreciate your viewpoint, however you also have to consider that in certain cases management may be dumbasses, but their asses ain't dumb.
Taking the view of going off to 'XYZ' carrier for 3 years because of getting a free type rating out of it, and having to stick out three years before bumping off to another carrier with your TR, will do what exactly ?
As an operator, that is an expense they are going to have to carry. Not just the cost of TR, but the cost of advertising, interviewing, training, line checking, dealing with crewing issues etc etc over a large number of pilot every three years.
That cost has to be picked up somewhere. If using a carrier for a 'free' TR that cost in the operational overheads will have to be passed on to somewhere.
The passengers ?
That puts an overhead on the ticket price, which in comparison to another carrier that doesnt have a high pilot turnover getting their 'free' TR's, which then maken the operator un competetive in the market place. Bingo, the growth and expansion of the airline is now limited.
Taking the attitude of belting off to a carrier for a 'free' TR then bouncing out elsewhere is equally as responsible for the descent of T&C's.
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Chesty
I too take your point. However the fact remains that, having taken the route I have taken, I do not qualify for the job in your example. Had I taken the career path my former training colleagues took which I outlined earlier, I would qualify by now. Notwithstanding, if I had, and I did, I probably wouldn't apply, I'd probably stay put flying new 737s at Ryanair. Additionally I would have had a higher salary for a greater number of years. That would seem to me to indicate what would have been a sound financial investment, had I not made the wrong decision all those years ago.
I'm not moaning, I have enjoyed all the flying I have done, flown with some highly skilled captains in challenging conditions and learned a great deal. I don't know if I would have learned these raw flying skills in pay to fly land, so the investment analysis is not as simple as I make it. However it remains true to say that I am not very saleable now, whereas with some 3000 jet hours I would be moreso.
I too take your point. However the fact remains that, having taken the route I have taken, I do not qualify for the job in your example. Had I taken the career path my former training colleagues took which I outlined earlier, I would qualify by now. Notwithstanding, if I had, and I did, I probably wouldn't apply, I'd probably stay put flying new 737s at Ryanair. Additionally I would have had a higher salary for a greater number of years. That would seem to me to indicate what would have been a sound financial investment, had I not made the wrong decision all those years ago.
I'm not moaning, I have enjoyed all the flying I have done, flown with some highly skilled captains in challenging conditions and learned a great deal. I don't know if I would have learned these raw flying skills in pay to fly land, so the investment analysis is not as simple as I make it. However it remains true to say that I am not very saleable now, whereas with some 3000 jet hours I would be moreso.
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Do you really think that someone with "500 hours P2F time" will be considered above someone who has flown and proved themselves in regional flying in Europe with over a 3000 hours and command time
P2F CV go directly to the bin!!!
yes, and I am RECRUITER for a big airline.
how can I spot them: guys who logged 500h exactly on the 320 or B737!
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320 rider
Zero to "hero" in no time! Amazing! Recruiting after so little time. Based on your posts' a little hard to go along with?
I think a neck winding in your microsoft simworld would do you a power of good.
I am 100% opposed to the p2f Prosi**utes Btw.
Cheers
Zero to "hero" in no time! Amazing! Recruiting after so little time. Based on your posts' a little hard to go along with?
I think a neck winding in your microsoft simworld would do you a power of good.
I am 100% opposed to the p2f Prosi**utes Btw.
Cheers
Last edited by 45989; 13th Jun 2010 at 19:05.
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Bruce Wayne sounds like MO's right hand man and justifies his argument from an airline management point of view. NOT a pilots point of view. He seems to have forgotten the different models concerning LCC's and Service airlines.
When one has taken the P2F route you have justify yourself. It is without doubt that many pilots around the world blame this phenomenon on the degrading T&C's. Furthermore I have seen a degradation in the handling skills of the next generation of pilots. This is because the industry encourages dependency on automation. Those turbo prop boys get lots of it where as the P2F jet boys don't. Is the standard of pilots getting better. In my opinion the answer is no.
We are churning out pilots from the auto-flight factories and they are a product of their environment. after all you get what you pay for. And with the dog eat dog mentality of society. Standing up for what is morally correct is quite understandably thrown out of the window.
Do the young guns get treated badly P2F or non P2F well definitely not in any flight decks I have operated in.
When one has taken the P2F route you have justify yourself. It is without doubt that many pilots around the world blame this phenomenon on the degrading T&C's. Furthermore I have seen a degradation in the handling skills of the next generation of pilots. This is because the industry encourages dependency on automation. Those turbo prop boys get lots of it where as the P2F jet boys don't. Is the standard of pilots getting better. In my opinion the answer is no.
We are churning out pilots from the auto-flight factories and they are a product of their environment. after all you get what you pay for. And with the dog eat dog mentality of society. Standing up for what is morally correct is quite understandably thrown out of the window.
Do the young guns get treated badly P2F or non P2F well definitely not in any flight decks I have operated in.
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"I hope all you guys realise that most PROPER airlines monitor this site as well as facebook and all the other sites you can make an ass of yourself on.
Be smarter!"
- This is very true indeed!
Be smarter!"
- This is very true indeed!
