BALPA - Finally had enough
Join Date: May 2005
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There we have it
There we have it at last a start BALPA's 5 key achievements
1. Dont feed the troll.
2.?
3.?
4.?
5.?
Not doing so well here are we?
Come on Comrades 5 key achievements in the last 10 years even BALPA must have some!
1. Dont feed the troll.
2.?
3.?
4.?
5.?
Not doing so well here are we?
Come on Comrades 5 key achievements in the last 10 years even BALPA must have some!
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Would you care to tell us Unites 5 achievements? Let me help you with a starter:
1) Leading BA cabin crew into a costly strike they can't win and achieving a poorer outcome than was first offered by BA over a year ago.
Over to you for the remaining 4.......
1) Leading BA cabin crew into a costly strike they can't win and achieving a poorer outcome than was first offered by BA over a year ago.
Over to you for the remaining 4.......
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Any sensible union leader, Unite, BALPA, ALPA, Fred's Shunters Union....knows that you fight the good fight when things are booming.
When times is baad.....you eat sh1t.
How much sh1t you eat depends on how much pain you can inflict and the volcano has shown that if you can't fly it gets very painful!
When times is baad.....you eat sh1t.
How much sh1t you eat depends on how much pain you can inflict and the volcano has shown that if you can't fly it gets very painful!
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Well here's an interesting one:
I am currently contracting at the Greasy lot (I am one of the bunch made redundant from bmi and took up a flexiscrew contract) and was given a letter of intent to employ me full time come the 1st November.
Happy days I thought!!!! However our beloved BALPA has in the meantime negotiated a pay DECREASE(compared to the original direct entry FO's pay of(£45k vs £49k), along with a FLEXIBLE roster (vs. the 5/4/5/3 roster I was hoping to get) and a DEMOTION (the SFO upgrade has been raised to 3000 factored greasyjet hours vs. issue of ATPL originally) All this for a company actually making a profit!!!!! BTW this affects 50 new joiners from the 1st November.
Correct me if I am wrong, but according to my books BLAPA are systematically degrading conditions for future generations and now current generations!!!
Anyway rant over, subscription cancelled and from what it looks like, career cancelled....
I am currently contracting at the Greasy lot (I am one of the bunch made redundant from bmi and took up a flexiscrew contract) and was given a letter of intent to employ me full time come the 1st November.
Happy days I thought!!!! However our beloved BALPA has in the meantime negotiated a pay DECREASE(compared to the original direct entry FO's pay of(£45k vs £49k), along with a FLEXIBLE roster (vs. the 5/4/5/3 roster I was hoping to get) and a DEMOTION (the SFO upgrade has been raised to 3000 factored greasyjet hours vs. issue of ATPL originally) All this for a company actually making a profit!!!!! BTW this affects 50 new joiners from the 1st November.
Correct me if I am wrong, but according to my books BLAPA are systematically degrading conditions for future generations and now current generations!!!
Anyway rant over, subscription cancelled and from what it looks like, career cancelled....
Join Date: May 2005
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BALPA's 5 key achivements
Hardly University challenge this is it?
Lets have some key achievements of BALPA in the last 10 years.
10 years includes at least one recession and one boom so its a long enough period to at least show some achievements.
So far we have for BALPA's 5 key achievements
1.Dont feed the troll.
2.Unite have led the cabin crew into a costly strike that they cannot win.
3.?
4.?
5.?
Given that the average UK skipper earns circa £80K so hands out to BALPA £800 per annum the list of achivements for the cash wasted looks a bit depressing.
Come on Comrades are there any BALPA achievements. There must be some is there?
Lets have some key achievements of BALPA in the last 10 years.
10 years includes at least one recession and one boom so its a long enough period to at least show some achievements.
So far we have for BALPA's 5 key achievements
1.Dont feed the troll.
2.Unite have led the cabin crew into a costly strike that they cannot win.
3.?
4.?
5.?
Given that the average UK skipper earns circa £80K so hands out to BALPA £800 per annum the list of achivements for the cash wasted looks a bit depressing.
Come on Comrades are there any BALPA achievements. There must be some is there?
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Ah wait, I've got one I think. Didn't they get recognition as some form of professional association, similar to the Law Society and the GMC? That's rather good isn't it? So despite earning about the same as a warehouse supervisor, pilots can at least regard themselves in the same light as respected professionals.
Anyway, it's the sunrises that nobody can take away. And they're worth something money can't buy. Punching through the clouds in the winter to be one of the first and only people that day to see the sun, that makes it all worthwhile etc. etc. etc. (continue until bankrupt/coronary event)
Here's a thought actually, they've got a bigger database of UKIP voters than UKIP do. Flog that off to Nigel Farage and you could halve the subscriptions.
Anyway, it's the sunrises that nobody can take away. And they're worth something money can't buy. Punching through the clouds in the winter to be one of the first and only people that day to see the sun, that makes it all worthwhile etc. etc. etc. (continue until bankrupt/coronary event)
Here's a thought actually, they've got a bigger database of UKIP voters than UKIP do. Flog that off to Nigel Farage and you could halve the subscriptions.
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BALPA's top 5 achivements
So far in order of presentation BALPA ' s outstanding achievments in the last 10 years are reported to be
1.Dont feed the troll.
2.Unite have led the cabin crew into into a fight they cannot win.
3.Negotiated a wage decrease.
4.Achieved recognition as a professional association with wages akin to a warehouse supervisor.
5. Built up the countries largest database of UKIP supporters.
For such an outstanding service to aviation over the last 10 years it seems only right and proper we should recognise BALPA with an award of some kind.
Seriously keep the achievements flowing there must be something of substance to show for 10 years.
1.Dont feed the troll.
2.Unite have led the cabin crew into into a fight they cannot win.
3.Negotiated a wage decrease.
4.Achieved recognition as a professional association with wages akin to a warehouse supervisor.
5. Built up the countries largest database of UKIP supporters.
For such an outstanding service to aviation over the last 10 years it seems only right and proper we should recognise BALPA with an award of some kind.
Seriously keep the achievements flowing there must be something of substance to show for 10 years.
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Caudillo,
Not being an authority on employment law and legislation, i cant agree/disagree..
however, here is Directive 2005/36/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council, 7th September 2005 on the recognition of professional qualifications.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070101-en.pdf
in short:
Not being an authority on employment law and legislation, i cant agree/disagree..
however, here is Directive 2005/36/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council, 7th September 2005 on the recognition of professional qualifications.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0070101-en.pdf
in short:
European Directive 2005/36/EC aids mobility by obliging Member States to consider the qualifications acquired elsewhere in the Community to allow access to a regulated profession in their territory.
The rights of EU citizens to establish themselves or to provide services anywhere in the EU are fundamental freedoms in the Single Market.
However, national regulations which stipulate specific professional qualifications for certain professions impede these fundamental freedoms.
These obstacles are overcome by EU rules guaranteeing the mutual recognition of professional qualifications between Member States.
The rights of EU citizens to establish themselves or to provide services anywhere in the EU are fundamental freedoms in the Single Market.
However, national regulations which stipulate specific professional qualifications for certain professions impede these fundamental freedoms.
These obstacles are overcome by EU rules guaranteeing the mutual recognition of professional qualifications between Member States.
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Bruce, likewise.
And a fantastic directive if I may say so too. I'm not entirely certain what you're driving at however.
I don't know if this offering will break into the top five - but when I have had occasion to thumb The Log, I have discovered in between the Volvo adverts and peculiar cartoons about gentlemen that wear ear protectors over braided hats, a letters page that makes that of the Daily Mail look positively liberal. That is surely an achievement of rare distinction.
And a fantastic directive if I may say so too. I'm not entirely certain what you're driving at however.
I don't know if this offering will break into the top five - but when I have had occasion to thumb The Log, I have discovered in between the Volvo adverts and peculiar cartoons about gentlemen that wear ear protectors over braided hats, a letters page that makes that of the Daily Mail look positively liberal. That is surely an achievement of rare distinction.
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Whyeyeman -
Firstly, the actual answer is YES, there are a mass of employment agencies for most of the above but, come on, bin men? Professional? is your head up a certain orifice?
With regard to professional status of pilots, I don't think you have it. AFAIK that status is reserved for those who do or may belong to a royal college such as nurses, doctors, midwives etc. Not pilots.
Do I see other professional associations / unions allowing their doctors / nurses / teachers / bin-men, etc. to be employed as casually as pilots are? NO
With regard to professional status of pilots, I don't think you have it. AFAIK that status is reserved for those who do or may belong to a royal college such as nurses, doctors, midwives etc. Not pilots.
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I am currently contracting at the Greasy lot (I am one of the bunch made redundant from bmi and took up a flexiscrew contract)
What did you expect? To have your vaseline provided foc?
Grin and bear it, before you get it vaseline free.
And if you plan to go through a career in bed with such a bunch of rogues as that with no protection at all, you'll soon be dreaming of the help you'd have got from BALPA. Just how blinkered, short termist, cheap, selfish and superficial can people get?
Best of luck. You're gonna be needing it.
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BALPA,s top 5 achievements
Seriously guys 2744 views of this thread and yet not one person has come up with a real BALPA achievement.
So lets keep this running what say for another 24 hours before it will be realistic to conclude based on non response that BALPA indeed have no achievements and certainly none that could be defined as a top achievement.
One could be cutting and say managing to stay in business while being totally useless is an achievment in its own right but hardy one to be proud of so come on you BALPA Comrades lets have some achievements that BALPA can be proud of.
So lets keep this running what say for another 24 hours before it will be realistic to conclude based on non response that BALPA indeed have no achievements and certainly none that could be defined as a top achievement.
One could be cutting and say managing to stay in business while being totally useless is an achievment in its own right but hardy one to be proud of so come on you BALPA Comrades lets have some achievements that BALPA can be proud of.
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Paul Rice - I think you should consider what unions are about. In certain cases it may be to 'achieve' something such as equality of pay and conditions, protection from over exploitation etc but mainly they exist to prevent erosion of T&Cs for existing members within the legal framework. Achievements are the domain of politicians. As BALPA is not affiliated to any party you cannot criticise.
I very much doubt if anyone on this forum can have knowledge of successful actions they have fought without a breach of confidence having taken place so your argument is null and void.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
I very much doubt if anyone on this forum can have knowledge of successful actions they have fought without a breach of confidence having taken place so your argument is null and void.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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In short, neither BALPA nor IPA have any power...
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BALPA 's Achivements or lack of them
Hi Al446 at last an attempt to front up for BALPA.
Thank you but I dont think your argument quite breaks the argument that BALPA cannot demonstrate significant achievements in the last 10 years.
Taking your points in turn
1. Equality of Pay nowt to do with BALPA Equal Pay Act was in bought in 1970 some 40 years ago. Legislation 40 years ago having nowt to do with BALPA can hardly be counted as a BALPA achievment in the last 10 years.
2. Protection against Erosion of Terms and Conditions this is a BALPA failure not an achievement.
3. Protection against explotation again a BALPA failure what has BALPA done to prevent the explotation of pilots in pay to fly appointments for example.
4. Achievements are just the preserve of politicians and as BALPA is not affilaited to any political party you can't criticise. What sort of twisted medievil logic is this. Achievements are not just the preserve of politcians they are the preserve of every human being and every human enterprise. BALPA is part of the TUC which is embeded in the Labour Party which come to think of it is another failing organisation.
5. BALPA legal success covered by confidentiality agreements so we cant measure how well they have done. Your last point has some merit but there is overwhelming evidence of BALPA not taking on strong legal cases to protect members and leaving individuals high and dry when they have been shafted by employers. On balance BALPA has a bad record for this but success or failure here needs better testing bofore its chalked up as an achievement or as I suspect probably another abject failure.
So far we are not doing well here are we. A skipper over 10 years hands over £8000 to BALPA and in return BALPA delivers at best a dodgy record in very patchy legal protection and so far I can see nowt else to show as an achievment.
BALPA is just not worth it.
Thank you but I dont think your argument quite breaks the argument that BALPA cannot demonstrate significant achievements in the last 10 years.
Taking your points in turn
1. Equality of Pay nowt to do with BALPA Equal Pay Act was in bought in 1970 some 40 years ago. Legislation 40 years ago having nowt to do with BALPA can hardly be counted as a BALPA achievment in the last 10 years.
2. Protection against Erosion of Terms and Conditions this is a BALPA failure not an achievement.
3. Protection against explotation again a BALPA failure what has BALPA done to prevent the explotation of pilots in pay to fly appointments for example.
4. Achievements are just the preserve of politicians and as BALPA is not affilaited to any political party you can't criticise. What sort of twisted medievil logic is this. Achievements are not just the preserve of politcians they are the preserve of every human being and every human enterprise. BALPA is part of the TUC which is embeded in the Labour Party which come to think of it is another failing organisation.
5. BALPA legal success covered by confidentiality agreements so we cant measure how well they have done. Your last point has some merit but there is overwhelming evidence of BALPA not taking on strong legal cases to protect members and leaving individuals high and dry when they have been shafted by employers. On balance BALPA has a bad record for this but success or failure here needs better testing bofore its chalked up as an achievement or as I suspect probably another abject failure.
So far we are not doing well here are we. A skipper over 10 years hands over £8000 to BALPA and in return BALPA delivers at best a dodgy record in very patchy legal protection and so far I can see nowt else to show as an achievment.
BALPA is just not worth it.
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Exactly the conclusion I reached a while back.
A small example at my company was the huge fuss created when crew food amount and quality was reduced unilaterally. BALPA talked tough, ranted and raged that it was breech of contract, a reduction in our terms and conditions etc.
Six months of silence later they were forced to eat their words when learned council informed them that there was no contractual agreement regarding amount and quality, so they blamed it on the previous CC!
When I resigned from BALPA a year ago, they sent me a standard scare tactics letter about how exposed I'd be without their legal "protection". As far as I could work out it was nothing of the sort, and as previous contributors have stated, BALPA cherry-pick who they will or won't represent, based on either internal company politics or a cast iron case in their favour.
Correct me if I'm wrong but according to their accounts, BALPA spent £165000 in legal representation last year. Peanuts, considering the size of the membership.
Where does the money go?
A small example at my company was the huge fuss created when crew food amount and quality was reduced unilaterally. BALPA talked tough, ranted and raged that it was breech of contract, a reduction in our terms and conditions etc.
Six months of silence later they were forced to eat their words when learned council informed them that there was no contractual agreement regarding amount and quality, so they blamed it on the previous CC!
When I resigned from BALPA a year ago, they sent me a standard scare tactics letter about how exposed I'd be without their legal "protection". As far as I could work out it was nothing of the sort, and as previous contributors have stated, BALPA cherry-pick who they will or won't represent, based on either internal company politics or a cast iron case in their favour.
Correct me if I'm wrong but according to their accounts, BALPA spent £165000 in legal representation last year. Peanuts, considering the size of the membership.
Where does the money go?
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First off, I have no dog in this fight.
However, I'm slightly confused by comments I've seen several times in different threads. They say that BALPA is not doing anything because the respective employers are not doing anything illegal. Isn't this confusing the role of the police with the role of the trade union?
What I can't understand is that this should be the situation:
Police: Investigate and bring charges against perpetrators of illegal acts
Trade Union: Provide a vehicle for collective bargaining and ensure protection of members' working conditions.
To me, these two roles aren't even close. So what am I missing here? I wonder if it is because all big BALPA seems to do is bring the odd case in court. Maybe this makes BALPA seem more like your solicitor than your trade union?
I also wonder if, in general, the pilot body is too apathetic and divided already to ever be unified into striking (in this country, that is). Without any stick, carrot-and-stick just doesn't work and this perhaps explains the imbalance in pay and conditions we're seeing.
However, I'm slightly confused by comments I've seen several times in different threads. They say that BALPA is not doing anything because the respective employers are not doing anything illegal. Isn't this confusing the role of the police with the role of the trade union?
What I can't understand is that this should be the situation:
Police: Investigate and bring charges against perpetrators of illegal acts
Trade Union: Provide a vehicle for collective bargaining and ensure protection of members' working conditions.
To me, these two roles aren't even close. So what am I missing here? I wonder if it is because all big BALPA seems to do is bring the odd case in court. Maybe this makes BALPA seem more like your solicitor than your trade union?
I also wonder if, in general, the pilot body is too apathetic and divided already to ever be unified into striking (in this country, that is). Without any stick, carrot-and-stick just doesn't work and this perhaps explains the imbalance in pay and conditions we're seeing.
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I love these whinges about BALPA. 
Having served on a BALPA cc for one of the largest UK companies currently operating, I can’t help but smile when people like Paul Rice rant on and on.
As a CC your stick with which to beat the management with, is only as big as your work colleagues’ resolve on the matter in question. Since getting pilots to act together in their collective long term interest is like trying to herd cats, that stick is small and fairly limp.
This industry is populated by a significant number of pilots whose main defining characteristic seems to be a willingness to shaft their colleagues’ for their own narrow self interest.
Management know this and exploit it. The race to the bottom will only halt when we get there. It will be this way because we seem unable to help ourselves.
Paul stop whining and get yourself onto the CC you despise and show them how it’s done.
I suspect however, that you don’t have a pair and are happy to snipe from the comfort of your keyboard, safe in the knowledge that you won’t have to do anything that requires a bit of effort.
Having served on a BALPA cc for one of the largest UK companies currently operating, I can’t help but smile when people like Paul Rice rant on and on.
As a CC your stick with which to beat the management with, is only as big as your work colleagues’ resolve on the matter in question. Since getting pilots to act together in their collective long term interest is like trying to herd cats, that stick is small and fairly limp.
This industry is populated by a significant number of pilots whose main defining characteristic seems to be a willingness to shaft their colleagues’ for their own narrow self interest.
Management know this and exploit it. The race to the bottom will only halt when we get there. It will be this way because we seem unable to help ourselves.
Paul stop whining and get yourself onto the CC you despise and show them how it’s done.
I suspect however, that you don’t have a pair and are happy to snipe from the comfort of your keyboard, safe in the knowledge that you won’t have to do anything that requires a bit of effort.
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Dear Max,
If things are how you are describing them, BALPA is completely useless by its nature, because it could never work.
So why wasting 1% of your income if you could put it aside for some sort of legal support insurance and have your own professional and highly motivated lawyer which you pay directly to work for you when you need it?
Seriously, I don't understand those who have not quit BALPA yet.
Cheers
If things are how you are describing them, BALPA is completely useless by its nature, because it could never work.
So why wasting 1% of your income if you could put it aside for some sort of legal support insurance and have your own professional and highly motivated lawyer which you pay directly to work for you when you need it?
Seriously, I don't understand those who have not quit BALPA yet.
Cheers