What would you do?? Advice please..
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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What would you do?? Advice please..
Hi All,
In a real dilemma right now.
Experience: 1650hrs TT of which 1400hrs 737-300. Have not flown for 13 months.
Have the potential offer of 6 months flying over the summer so 5-600hrs plus currency etc...
Almost certainly unemployed again in November!
Current situation: Returned to previous career, stable, secure, Mon-Fri, Company car, pension, healthcare, similar earnings to SFO or (Captain on a very good year!!).......blah blah...
Married, 2 children, Mortgage - £230k....
So stay in safe job?
Or take leap of faith back into aviation and hope to god that come Dec 2010 -Feb 2011 some UK airlines are recruiting and I am current having flown over the summer?
Also that those airlines that are looking will employ FO's with experience (i'll have 2000+hrs) rather than those airlines that are recruiting just look at cadets with 200hrs (no offense to cadets with 200hrs intended I was in the same position 3yrs ago myself)
It is a worrying trend however that most UK airlines seem to not recruit experienced FO's at the moment, what will be the situation a year from now?
My thoughts are that if I want to get back to aviation it is now or never really as i will struggle if i leave it another year, just don't want to end up in the sh*t again because i will be unable to return to current career as a fall back if i go back to aviation and can't get a fulltime job after November!!
Anyone got any idea what recruitment will be like in 2011 in the UK??
I always thought it would be an easy decision to make but a toughie thats for sure.........
Cheers
In a real dilemma right now.
Experience: 1650hrs TT of which 1400hrs 737-300. Have not flown for 13 months.
Have the potential offer of 6 months flying over the summer so 5-600hrs plus currency etc...
Almost certainly unemployed again in November!
Current situation: Returned to previous career, stable, secure, Mon-Fri, Company car, pension, healthcare, similar earnings to SFO or (Captain on a very good year!!).......blah blah...
Married, 2 children, Mortgage - £230k....
So stay in safe job?
Or take leap of faith back into aviation and hope to god that come Dec 2010 -Feb 2011 some UK airlines are recruiting and I am current having flown over the summer?
Also that those airlines that are looking will employ FO's with experience (i'll have 2000+hrs) rather than those airlines that are recruiting just look at cadets with 200hrs (no offense to cadets with 200hrs intended I was in the same position 3yrs ago myself)
It is a worrying trend however that most UK airlines seem to not recruit experienced FO's at the moment, what will be the situation a year from now?
My thoughts are that if I want to get back to aviation it is now or never really as i will struggle if i leave it another year, just don't want to end up in the sh*t again because i will be unable to return to current career as a fall back if i go back to aviation and can't get a fulltime job after November!!
Anyone got any idea what recruitment will be like in 2011 in the UK??
I always thought it would be an easy decision to make but a toughie thats for sure.........
Cheers
Join Date: Jan 2007
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You only live once, however with kids involved you can't take chances (i say "you" in context.
I would not do it personally, but you must carefully asses and balance the risk.
good luck
I would not do it personally, but you must carefully asses and balance the risk.
good luck
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What are the terms of the job offer? 6 months flying in the ME for $4-5000 a month is quite different to 6 months 'flying' for EZY/FR on a pay-per-flying-hour 'con'tract. If I were you I wouldn't risk it, and would stay in the 9-to-5.
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I would definately not take the summer job. Stay in your safe secure job. Sure flying may be your vocation but what really matters is money coming in, bills being paid and food on the table.
The emotional stress on you and your family if you couldn't find work at the end of the summer would be very harsh. I personally (and it is just my view) is that there will not be major recruitment this year in most airlines. To take the risk of going back to flying would be foolish and risky for your family.
Things will pick up again and your currency (or lack of) will not be a problem and you will be flying again. At the end of the day you are employed right now so keep smiling.
The emotional stress on you and your family if you couldn't find work at the end of the summer would be very harsh. I personally (and it is just my view) is that there will not be major recruitment this year in most airlines. To take the risk of going back to flying would be foolish and risky for your family.
Things will pick up again and your currency (or lack of) will not be a problem and you will be flying again. At the end of the day you are employed right now so keep smiling.
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The reasonable side of the brain would have to say: what's the worst posssible outcome for each option? Deciding what to do based on the best outcome is a weakness we all have to fight though 
Since the worst possible outcome of taking on the summer contract is to find yourself unemployed with kids and mortgage in November, it's probably best to decline the offer.
I'd say wait one more year. The possibility of a double-dip recession is still there, so getting another job after your summer stint might be impossible. By 2011 the picture should be clearer.
P
Since the worst possible outcome of taking on the summer contract is to find yourself unemployed with kids and mortgage in November, it's probably best to decline the offer.
I'd say wait one more year. The possibility of a double-dip recession is still there, so getting another job after your summer stint might be impossible. By 2011 the picture should be clearer.
P
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I'm almost in an exactly same position and was thinking of writing a similar post, as I wanted to check that I wasn't being stupid by not taking a summer contract with no guarantees for the following summer.
I have just under the magic 500hrs on 757, been out of the game for 18months, and my fall back career doesn't pay as much, and is no where near as much fun as flying. My other concern is that the 757 are reducing in numbers every year, and opportunities for a type rated position are getting less
But with a 3 month old baby which I am enjoying, with the risk of being based far from home, and being unemployed once again in November, when there will still be at least over 2m still unemployed, and I’m sure once again it will be a struggle to find a vacancy to stack shelves, and also like last time I was on the doll I was told on 2 occasion I was over qualified to work in a factory. It's not like there are many other jobs to fall back on in general out there.
I have pretty much decided I’m going stay where I am to pay the bills and see what will happen spring 2011. When thing improve eventually managers will realise that pilots need to lead normal lives
Good luck with what ever you decide
Mint
I have just under the magic 500hrs on 757, been out of the game for 18months, and my fall back career doesn't pay as much, and is no where near as much fun as flying. My other concern is that the 757 are reducing in numbers every year, and opportunities for a type rated position are getting less
But with a 3 month old baby which I am enjoying, with the risk of being based far from home, and being unemployed once again in November, when there will still be at least over 2m still unemployed, and I’m sure once again it will be a struggle to find a vacancy to stack shelves, and also like last time I was on the doll I was told on 2 occasion I was over qualified to work in a factory. It's not like there are many other jobs to fall back on in general out there.
I have pretty much decided I’m going stay where I am to pay the bills and see what will happen spring 2011. When thing improve eventually managers will realise that pilots need to lead normal lives
Good luck with what ever you decide
Mint
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Stay put.
Keep your family comfortable and well provided for.
You've flown a jet, so I'm sure you have some pictures and your logbook entries to prove it.
Keep your license current and your passion alive.
Fly lighties for your own pleasure when you feel like it, not when the boss tells you to.
Have fond memories of your time as a working pilot, but make your living away from aviation in an industry where your competance, experience and professional abilities are hopefully still appreciated and rewarded.
Keep your family comfortable and well provided for.
You've flown a jet, so I'm sure you have some pictures and your logbook entries to prove it.
Keep your license current and your passion alive.
Fly lighties for your own pleasure when you feel like it, not when the boss tells you to.
Have fond memories of your time as a working pilot, but make your living away from aviation in an industry where your competance, experience and professional abilities are hopefully still appreciated and rewarded.
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Thanks for all the replies so far. I have to say I am surprised that it is an overwhelming stay where you are, I thought most would say you have to take the chance and get back in etc....
I change my mind on a daily basis depending on the wind direction!! But the fact that it doesn't feel right says a lot probably.
Mintflavour good luck with what you decide it is so hard with family and children as you have a responsibility to your children that is how i feel.
The opportunity is with a UK low/co not on an hourly basis etc...
The main thing that concerns me is come spring 2011 and recruitment hopefully starts is that i don't get a look in as I've not flown for 2 yrs!!
Thanks again guys
I change my mind on a daily basis depending on the wind direction!! But the fact that it doesn't feel right says a lot probably.
Mintflavour good luck with what you decide it is so hard with family and children as you have a responsibility to your children that is how i feel.
The opportunity is with a UK low/co not on an hourly basis etc...
The main thing that concerns me is come spring 2011 and recruitment hopefully starts is that i don't get a look in as I've not flown for 2 yrs!!
Thanks again guys
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You hit the nail on the head there Dan, "come spring 2011 and recruitment hopefully starts".
Who's to say that'll happen? You definately should stay put. Family is everything and going down the summer only route is too risky. Imagine, 6 more paychecks then you know you are out of work. Talk about stressfull, for you and the missus.
Who's to say that'll happen? You definately should stay put. Family is everything and going down the summer only route is too risky. Imagine, 6 more paychecks then you know you are out of work. Talk about stressfull, for you and the missus.
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Jet2 is not worth it.
No doubt they have left you with some carrot to get you to do 6 months of flying. However, you will soon see that the carrot is merely used to hit you over the head and then inserted up your backside at some later date.
Keep your life stress free.
No doubt they have left you with some carrot to get you to do 6 months of flying. However, you will soon see that the carrot is merely used to hit you over the head and then inserted up your backside at some later date.
Keep your life stress free.
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The economy is too unstable to risk a job with good earnings and perks just for a six month contract
. And after the six months is up now what are you going to do
?
. And after the six months is up now what are you going to do?
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Considered this then? ;See if you can take a leave of absence from your current employer. A 6 month leave (or maybe even 7 to have Dec off). Bring your family with you, if your kids aren`t of school age yet. In the ME it seems that the companies pay for your housing, transportation etc, though I don`t know how this works with 6mo contracts. Currency on type is a plus. If recruitmen t starts spring 2011 you should be in a very good position, and if it doesn`t you can go back to your current job - provided they grant you a leave of absence!
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Everything posted thusfar makes very good sense. I would love to tell a young man to follow his dream into a profession that has, by and large been pretty good to me. However, these are tough times and my advice would be the same as to someone who was in a flying job and thinking of changing companies.
If you have a stable job right now, stick with it!
If things really improve in aviation you can think again, and what you have already achieved can never be taken away from you. If they dont improve, then it would prove to have been an even smarter choice!
Well done for being smart enough to have another career to fall back on! something I never did!!
Put it down to experience and enjoy your family.
If you have a stable job right now, stick with it!
If things really improve in aviation you can think again, and what you have already achieved can never be taken away from you. If they dont improve, then it would prove to have been an even smarter choice!
Well done for being smart enough to have another career to fall back on! something I never did!!
Put it down to experience and enjoy your family.
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I had to make a very simimilar decision back in 1982 when I lost my F/O job when Laker went bust. It took me a couple of months to get another job, but in a completely different field (computing, in fact). Six months later I was offered a temporary flying job but decided, after tough debate with the family, that the prospects where I then was, were much better. I did not accept the offer and carried on developing my new career. It turned out that the temporary flying job only lasted a few months.
The surprise came about 3 years later when I was once more offered a flying job, but by this time my salary expectations had become way more than I was being offered so, despite the lure of getting back to the cockpit and away from 9 to 5 I turned it down once more.
Looking back - it was definiitely the right decision to turn down these temporary jobs. I was able to provide well for my family in my new career. I still to this day miss flying enormously, but its easy to stay involved in aviation. And you never know what will come in a couple of years. If I get offered a job with only a three year old IR and 4000 hours on DC-10 and Tridents, maybe you will as well.
Good luck!
The surprise came about 3 years later when I was once more offered a flying job, but by this time my salary expectations had become way more than I was being offered so, despite the lure of getting back to the cockpit and away from 9 to 5 I turned it down once more.
Looking back - it was definiitely the right decision to turn down these temporary jobs. I was able to provide well for my family in my new career. I still to this day miss flying enormously, but its easy to stay involved in aviation. And you never know what will come in a couple of years. If I get offered a job with only a three year old IR and 4000 hours on DC-10 and Tridents, maybe you will as well.
Good luck!
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I agree with most of the responses. It would be highly irresponsible of you to leave a secure job to pursue an unsecure job in a failing aviation industry. (failing meaning diminished terms and conditions that most likely will not return to fair and liveable standards).
Your responsibility is to your family. End of story.
Your responsibility is to your family. End of story.
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Hi Dan,
I think we were made redundant at the same time from the same company. If I had a job now I wouldn't leave it (even if it was the company that I was at last!). My pennyworth...
You can always say that you did it!
I think we were made redundant at the same time from the same company. If I had a job now I wouldn't leave it (even if it was the company that I was at last!). My pennyworth...
You can always say that you did it!
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Hi All,
Thank you again for all the responses.
I have today turned down the offer with said company (Not Jet2). The chief pilot is a top bloke and he totally understood my decision and my predicament.
No bridges burnt and if there is a proper recovery in the industry then hopefully i can return in 12 months time when things are clearer and there is a full-time position on offer!
It just wasn't worth the risk despite wanting to take to the skies again. As many have said the responsibility as a father and husband take priority. The funny thing is i feel a huge relief now i have made the decision and it feels like the right one has been made.
Good luck to all in this strange strange industry!!
Cheers
Dan
Thank you again for all the responses.
I have today turned down the offer with said company (Not Jet2). The chief pilot is a top bloke and he totally understood my decision and my predicament.
No bridges burnt and if there is a proper recovery in the industry then hopefully i can return in 12 months time when things are clearer and there is a full-time position on offer!
It just wasn't worth the risk despite wanting to take to the skies again. As many have said the responsibility as a father and husband take priority. The funny thing is i feel a huge relief now i have made the decision and it feels like the right one has been made.
Good luck to all in this strange strange industry!!
Cheers
Dan
