Worth being a pilot at any price?
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guntop88
Aviation is a funny thing. As many posters have said above, it gets into your blood and makes you take some really odd decisions based upon the idea that "I've got to do this, whatever the cost/consequences".
I gave up a good job to follow the dream, and can honestly say I love the flying to bits. This helps me cope with the not so nice bits of aviation, such as increasingly hostile and aggressive management styles, rostering by computer, and occasionally that horrible tired feeling that you can only really get after six days of max hours, min rest, a run of earlies to lates in awful weather....., oh and yes, the insecurity that pervades aviation and so many other industries these days.
After being made redundant for the the second time in six years, I'm back flying turboprops after time on shiny jets, and it's hard. Truly awful pay (in relation to the cost of getting qualified, if not compared to average wages in the UK - although it's still below that) and long spells of time away from home and family don't necessarily make for a contented life. But it's also fun - no Cat 3's I'm afraid, but the joy of catching the lights at minima on a Cat 2, squeeking in on minima after a well flown NDB, a hand flown visual that gets you to just where you want to be as you turn finals, or even a nice landing on a blustery day, I could go on and on....
But what should you do?
Ask yourself why you wanted to be a pilot in the first place. There are plenty of valid motivations to do so, but yours may no longer outweigh the negatives of being a commercial pilot in 2009.
Also, I think you need to sit down with your wife and see how she feels about the whole thing - it's not just the being apart, but how will she manage being a single parent for over half the month, are you going to have to reduce your standard of living as a family, cut holidays and stuff. Is she comfortable with you being away and surrounded by female cabin crew? If she's not 100% behind what you are doing, you will find it doubly difficult - and aviation isn't the best profession for low divorce rates anyway.
As far as the operator goes, this will be a stepping stone. The experience you get on turboprops will be valuable when you want to move on and will build your hours so that when the upturn comes you will have commercial time in your logbook and maybe even command time. So your next job should be better paid and with a better roster. If you go down the FI route or even just do minimum hours to keep your IR current, you gamble that when the upturn happens, you are looking at the same job as you are now.
You have to decide as a family whether you all want and are happy to endure the short term pain for the possible long term gain. Go into this with your eyes open and ask yourselves how you would feel/cope if you take the job, and the worst case scenario happens. E.g. The market doesn't pick up quickly, and in two/three years time you are still stuck in the RHS of that turboprop, away from home 17 nights a month. OK it's unlikely but if you can cope with that......
Otherwise, stay put, carry on doing what you are doing and fly for fun. You can always have another look in a couple of years, things may be completely different.
If only I had a crystal ball
By the way, congratulations for having the courage to re-examine whether you are doing the right thing. So many people I know have just ploughed on regardless, not wanting to admit they may have got it wrong and end up thoroughly unhappy.
Happy flying and good luck
oap
Aviation is a funny thing. As many posters have said above, it gets into your blood and makes you take some really odd decisions based upon the idea that "I've got to do this, whatever the cost/consequences".
I gave up a good job to follow the dream, and can honestly say I love the flying to bits. This helps me cope with the not so nice bits of aviation, such as increasingly hostile and aggressive management styles, rostering by computer, and occasionally that horrible tired feeling that you can only really get after six days of max hours, min rest, a run of earlies to lates in awful weather....., oh and yes, the insecurity that pervades aviation and so many other industries these days.
After being made redundant for the the second time in six years, I'm back flying turboprops after time on shiny jets, and it's hard. Truly awful pay (in relation to the cost of getting qualified, if not compared to average wages in the UK - although it's still below that) and long spells of time away from home and family don't necessarily make for a contented life. But it's also fun - no Cat 3's I'm afraid, but the joy of catching the lights at minima on a Cat 2, squeeking in on minima after a well flown NDB, a hand flown visual that gets you to just where you want to be as you turn finals, or even a nice landing on a blustery day, I could go on and on....
But what should you do?
Ask yourself why you wanted to be a pilot in the first place. There are plenty of valid motivations to do so, but yours may no longer outweigh the negatives of being a commercial pilot in 2009.
Also, I think you need to sit down with your wife and see how she feels about the whole thing - it's not just the being apart, but how will she manage being a single parent for over half the month, are you going to have to reduce your standard of living as a family, cut holidays and stuff. Is she comfortable with you being away and surrounded by female cabin crew? If she's not 100% behind what you are doing, you will find it doubly difficult - and aviation isn't the best profession for low divorce rates anyway.
As far as the operator goes, this will be a stepping stone. The experience you get on turboprops will be valuable when you want to move on and will build your hours so that when the upturn comes you will have commercial time in your logbook and maybe even command time. So your next job should be better paid and with a better roster. If you go down the FI route or even just do minimum hours to keep your IR current, you gamble that when the upturn happens, you are looking at the same job as you are now.
You have to decide as a family whether you all want and are happy to endure the short term pain for the possible long term gain. Go into this with your eyes open and ask yourselves how you would feel/cope if you take the job, and the worst case scenario happens. E.g. The market doesn't pick up quickly, and in two/three years time you are still stuck in the RHS of that turboprop, away from home 17 nights a month. OK it's unlikely but if you can cope with that......
Otherwise, stay put, carry on doing what you are doing and fly for fun. You can always have another look in a couple of years, things may be completely different.
If only I had a crystal ball
By the way, congratulations for having the courage to re-examine whether you are doing the right thing. So many people I know have just ploughed on regardless, not wanting to admit they may have got it wrong and end up thoroughly unhappy.
Happy flying and good luck
oap
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I'm with Paolo on this - for me there's nothing comes close to flying - even if it is a midnight Bombay turnaround and home at crack of dawn!! I would say G88 to stick with it... Office jobs - no way
Hi Clandenstino
I am no thrill seeker at work, I can assure you, although I will swim naked in our outdoor swimming pool at home...thats about as thrill seeking as I get! Actually, I do it because I can!
I fly autolands when the weather is crap. I do not seek out the thrill, I just enjoy monitoring an A320 "doing its thing" during a CAT 3B automatic approach. It concentrates the mind as you are fully aware. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
Funny that you went to interviews where they examined your head....I have worked for 5 UK companies and apart from my current employer which took over my previous one I have been offered employment on 4 separate occasions based on interviews, sim rides etc. I have never knowingly had my head examined and yet I have been flying jets successfully since I was 23. Gained a command 3 years ago aged 30. Looks like I slipped through the net, didn't I ?
Some people are happy with their lot, some are not, obviously.
Paolo
I am no thrill seeker at work, I can assure you, although I will swim naked in our outdoor swimming pool at home...thats about as thrill seeking as I get! Actually, I do it because I can!
I fly autolands when the weather is crap. I do not seek out the thrill, I just enjoy monitoring an A320 "doing its thing" during a CAT 3B automatic approach. It concentrates the mind as you are fully aware. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
Funny that you went to interviews where they examined your head....I have worked for 5 UK companies and apart from my current employer which took over my previous one I have been offered employment on 4 separate occasions based on interviews, sim rides etc. I have never knowingly had my head examined and yet I have been flying jets successfully since I was 23. Gained a command 3 years ago aged 30. Looks like I slipped through the net, didn't I ?
Some people are happy with their lot, some are not, obviously.
Paolo
Thank you for your reply Paolo. I was never examined or had interview in UK so your comment about slipping through net was a bit misplaced.
I still do maintain that never mind which organization issued your licence, not putting potential future pilots through thorough psychiatric and psychological evaluation is example of cutting costs at the wrong place. Your comment about enjoying watching A320 "doing its thing" has very slightly increased my confirmation bias.
I still do maintain that never mind which organization issued your licence, not putting potential future pilots through thorough psychiatric and psychological evaluation is example of cutting costs at the wrong place. Your comment about enjoying watching A320 "doing its thing" has very slightly increased my confirmation bias.
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It's gotta be down to personnal choice. If you are feeling grim about flying less than a year into the job then what hope is there? I started on big Boeings 12 years ago straight out of instructing and thought it was great. Now I don't give a 
what kind of approach I do or which hotel I end up at. I like the people I go to work with and the paycheck at the end of the month. I'm afraid the enthusiasm for this job bled out long ago and it is a common theme amongst many pilots I know both here and in previous companies. It's not the job it was and i can't imagine it ever going back to "the good old days" whatever they were anyway.
If watching an airplane fly an approach at 6am in the thick fog down to minimums is your thing, then rock on. Otherwise, I would give serious consideration to your 'previous life' and like many guys have already said, just fly for fun.
what kind of approach I do or which hotel I end up at. I like the people I go to work with and the paycheck at the end of the month. I'm afraid the enthusiasm for this job bled out long ago and it is a common theme amongst many pilots I know both here and in previous companies. It's not the job it was and i can't imagine it ever going back to "the good old days" whatever they were anyway.If watching an airplane fly an approach at 6am in the thick fog down to minimums is your thing, then rock on. Otherwise, I would give serious consideration to your 'previous life' and like many guys have already said, just fly for fun.
The grass really does appear greener on the other side of the fence. Having seen both sides I can say that flying is a wonderful job. But it has drawbacks like anyother.
If you want to get rich it is not the place to be. As a 737 captain I also earn significantly less than I used to in my old job. It is risky, not perhaps in the physical terms of the early days, but definitely in terms of job security and career development.
It is the lack of control over your own destiny that can be most difficult. Your airline can go bust. A few seniority numbers may make years of difference to when you upgrade and tens of thousands to your pay. You might get sick, will probably get divorced and can definitely plan on taking off your shoes at the security check at five A.M. on a regular basis.
You also need a lot of luck to get a job in this environment (but there is a lot of truth that the harder you work the luckier you get). Would I do it again, absolutely!
If you want to get rich it is not the place to be. As a 737 captain I also earn significantly less than I used to in my old job. It is risky, not perhaps in the physical terms of the early days, but definitely in terms of job security and career development.
It is the lack of control over your own destiny that can be most difficult. Your airline can go bust. A few seniority numbers may make years of difference to when you upgrade and tens of thousands to your pay. You might get sick, will probably get divorced and can definitely plan on taking off your shoes at the security check at five A.M. on a regular basis.
You also need a lot of luck to get a job in this environment (but there is a lot of truth that the harder you work the luckier you get). Would I do it again, absolutely!
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Anyway I digress from the main reason I quoted you. I am just a tad confused about what is wrong with being excited by (or perhaps impressed by) the ability of a modern jet airliner to punch through something I wouldn't drive a car in.
Yes I agree that a healthy ammount of respect is required as well as a thorough understanding of how the aircraft is doing what it is doing (and this is not an exhaustive list of must do's) but, and maybe I am just misunderstanding you, I don't see why I shouldn't enjoy this aspect of work. Not meaning to sound rude, if I do, but I am genuinely interested to hear your opinion.
Clandestino
Don't think you understood me matey..... when I said "slipped through the net", I meant "me" as I have gone through the UK system with a UK ATPL and various UK airline selection process without one psycho test!..... and yet I have had a reasonable career to date.
As for "monitoring" autolands and CAT3B... I am merely pointing out I have a healthy respect for the machine that I am operating and the training that has put me there.
Paolo
Don't think you understood me matey..... when I said "slipped through the net", I meant "me" as I have gone through the UK system with a UK ATPL and various UK airline selection process without one psycho test!..... and yet I have had a reasonable career to date.
As for "monitoring" autolands and CAT3B... I am merely pointing out I have a healthy respect for the machine that I am operating and the training that has put me there.
Paolo
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love flying=will fly
east or west flying is the best!!
imagine a pilot not flying and sitting in a office chair and doing 9-5 job. he will be one unhappy guy. from a pilot whos been der dun that and more..
cheers and happy landings..
imagine a pilot not flying and sitting in a office chair and doing 9-5 job. he will be one unhappy guy. from a pilot whos been der dun that and more..
cheers and happy landings..
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as well as a thorough understanding of how the aircraft is doing what it is doing (and this is not an exhaustive list of must do's)
there's nothing wrong with being amazed at this stuff... psycho tests are a waste of time and money imo and as a previous poster mentioned, you can 'manipulate' them fairly easily as the majority are looking for consistency in your answers. hell if I took one now and answered honestly i'd probably not be eligible for a job sweeping the buses never mind flying em!
safe flying
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Are most companies that do short haul routes trying to roster so that you are "back to base" every night?
I am still a wannabe at the moment and trying to get an indication of rosters / hours per week etc.
Any such information would be highly appreciated, although I understand it probably varies wildly from company to company.
I am still a wannabe at the moment and trying to get an indication of rosters / hours per week etc.
Any such information would be highly appreciated, although I understand it probably varies wildly from company to company.
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You have my respect for pulling off what you have done, sincerely.
If your family means a great deal to you (sound ridiculous, but is is not always the case) and you halfway enjoy your current job then stay where you are and consider it a job well done. You managed to get where you wanted to go and leave it with that.
Coming back on a previous big decision is not easy, but don't keep pressing on if you have second thoughts that will influence your personal life in a major (long-term) way. Surely there are positions that are very pleasant and will allow you to combine the best of both but they are rare and probably mean you would have to relocate (in the future when you have gained more experience).
Just my thoughts...
If your family means a great deal to you (sound ridiculous, but is is not always the case) and you halfway enjoy your current job then stay where you are and consider it a job well done. You managed to get where you wanted to go and leave it with that.
Coming back on a previous big decision is not easy, but don't keep pressing on if you have second thoughts that will influence your personal life in a major (long-term) way. Surely there are positions that are very pleasant and will allow you to combine the best of both but they are rare and probably mean you would have to relocate (in the future when you have gained more experience).
Just my thoughts...
Last edited by postman23; 10th Nov 2009 at 16:39. Reason: typo
alternate careers
After 32 years in this job and getting most of the qualifications, I can look back and say it was worth it...
But to sacrifice ur family life is not...
If i got a 9 to 5 job paying the same then i would leave in a blink of an eye...
But to sacrifice ur family life is not...
If i got a 9 to 5 job paying the same then i would leave in a blink of an eye...
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can't believe nobody's said the obvious yet... DO SOME FLYING AND SEE HOW YOU GET ON WITH THE JOB!
i'm presuming you've left your previous job as you are now line qualified.
then you may have to give what, a month's notice as drawn out in the contract?
the only way to know is to try it!
i'm presuming you've left your previous job as you are now line qualified.
then you may have to give what, a month's notice as drawn out in the contract?
the only way to know is to try it!
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Thoughts
Guntop,
You have a very long PM from me!
For what it's worth I left a good middle management position to join a well known Dash 8 operator with a base 400 miles from my family. Happily I am now based near home and have no regrets. In short I do (after 2 and a half years) still enjoy the job - flying is far far better than any office job I have ever had.
However the pay is crap and the rosters in my company can be gruelling - as an example I got up at 4.30am today, reported at 6.15, ran late due to some late transfer pax and was out of the airport around 15.30. I suffered traffic delays on the way home (rare) and got home about 5.30pm after picking my Daughter up from the childminder. It's a long day and certainly isn't an easy way to earn £32k a year!!
However tomorrow is a 4.30-10.30 home standby so if the fog doesn't cause too much chaos tonight I will hopefully drop the litle un off at school and spend the day at home watching a movie, having the house to myself while everyone else is at work, playing music and trying to put off finishing painting the landing!
As someone else said why not fly for a few months and see how much you enjoy it. The simulator is very different to real world flying (the latter is shedloads more fun) It would be a shame to come this far and not try it now. You don't want to be left wondering 'what if?'
To the poster who is a wannabe wondering about lifestyles and rosters I usually fly 4 sectors a day either 5 on 2 off or 6 on 3 off. Of the working days around 5-6 days a month will be standby and so as I'm only called out about 20-30% of those I probably end up doing 4 days a week on average each shift averaging about 7-9 hours a day.
I think this is pretty typical of the loco/turboprop arena and there are much better deals out there for sure...
Desk-pilot
You have a very long PM from me!
For what it's worth I left a good middle management position to join a well known Dash 8 operator with a base 400 miles from my family. Happily I am now based near home and have no regrets. In short I do (after 2 and a half years) still enjoy the job - flying is far far better than any office job I have ever had.
However the pay is crap and the rosters in my company can be gruelling - as an example I got up at 4.30am today, reported at 6.15, ran late due to some late transfer pax and was out of the airport around 15.30. I suffered traffic delays on the way home (rare) and got home about 5.30pm after picking my Daughter up from the childminder. It's a long day and certainly isn't an easy way to earn £32k a year!!
However tomorrow is a 4.30-10.30 home standby so if the fog doesn't cause too much chaos tonight I will hopefully drop the litle un off at school and spend the day at home watching a movie, having the house to myself while everyone else is at work, playing music and trying to put off finishing painting the landing!
As someone else said why not fly for a few months and see how much you enjoy it. The simulator is very different to real world flying (the latter is shedloads more fun) It would be a shame to come this far and not try it now. You don't want to be left wondering 'what if?'
To the poster who is a wannabe wondering about lifestyles and rosters I usually fly 4 sectors a day either 5 on 2 off or 6 on 3 off. Of the working days around 5-6 days a month will be standby and so as I'm only called out about 20-30% of those I probably end up doing 4 days a week on average each shift averaging about 7-9 hours a day.
I think this is pretty typical of the loco/turboprop arena and there are much better deals out there for sure...
Desk-pilot
(hopefully)
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oh dear, i must admit thats pushing the mark a bit with me! I could tell you the end result of pushing/pulling/turning/sliding/moving every button/switch/handle/control/pedal in the pointy end of my machine, but how it achieves it in the interim process has long since left me!