When will Ryanair pilots learn!!!!???
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No,, £572 per week
it cost too much to have £3500 a month so I went for cover that will pay for the important stuff and enough left for food and general crap after.
it cost too much to have £3500 a month so I went for cover that will pay for the important stuff and enough left for food and general crap after.
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WWW - I know exactly what I net and it is a very fair sum thanks. Its a lot more than the people that have been made redundant under the protection of BALPA. And its a lot more than the hundreds of young guys and girls that are currently unemployed and prepared to do anything to get a job. That's the market we operate in. An employers market. Like houses, we're subject to that market. Anyone who doesn't understand that shouldn't be operating in a commercial environment. Try the Post Office would be my advice.
And FYI... I've never slept in my car, nor do I know anyone that has done so. You surely can't be as pig ignorant as you make yourself out to be? Forgive me, but aren't you meant to be a moderator? Shouldn't you be setting an example instead of talking out of your arse? Block me if you like - I won't be reading this thread again. You should close it if you have any sense which you obviously haven't.
And FYI... I've never slept in my car, nor do I know anyone that has done so. You surely can't be as pig ignorant as you make yourself out to be? Forgive me, but aren't you meant to be a moderator? Shouldn't you be setting an example instead of talking out of your arse? Block me if you like - I won't be reading this thread again. You should close it if you have any sense which you obviously haven't.
And FYI I've seen RYR pilots sleeping in their cars.
You dislike BALPA and you think its fine that Wannabes be exploited. Its a free country..
WWW
You dislike BALPA and you think its fine that Wannabes be exploited. Its a free country..
WWW
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What I find depressing about this debate is not the bile exhibited amongst fellow pilots (which I can live with), but that it's really apparent many in the industry have lowered their expectations so much.
As has been noted already, a 100 years of social progress is being undone. Our forefathers, through organisations like BALPA, have campaigned over many years to improve our lot and many seem to be content to see all this go and in it's place working piecemeal for a shekel or two.
When Ryanair's lack of 'extras' is remarked on, their pilots retort only seems to mention uniform and IDs and the like. These aren't extras I'd be concerned about, think about PHI for when you go sick and employer pension contributions for when you're old. My lot provide PHI, which pays out 75% of pre-disablement salary up to retirement age, after that you can rely on a pretty descent pension. For info, a yr 2 F/O can expect the company to tip in £7500 per annum into his pot and this amount will increase in line salary increments and command etc.
Please take what bigots like D O Guerrero say about BALPA with a pinch of salt (suspect some sort of agenda is behind it and I doubt it's altogether wholesome), it's not the union that is causing job loses, it's to a degree inept management to blame, but moreover a factor of being a mature business. Things are fine and dandy in Ryanair whilst it's expanding and it may seem infallible now (Air Europe anyone?), but sooner or later this will stop. It will then be a mature business. When the next downturn happens, which it will...(!), I predict Ryanair will drop who it likes like a hot stone. From 1st hand experience over the years, BALPA, through member elected Company Councils, put a lot of effort into cajoling managements into things like voluntary severance and stand down. Don't expect such niceties with Ryanair.
Ryanair has provided very rapid advancement for many and provided a home for those who until now have been travellers around the industry. This is very good, however it's come at a price. Many here don't seem to aspire to more than a healthy pay check and are oblivious to the sense of professional dignity that inherited traditions within longer established carriers provide. When I see a Ryanair 737 park on the apron, I'm very sorry to say this, but the dark satanic mills of the Victorian era.
This fixed pattern roster thing. Now I can see the advantages in terms of planning life outside work, but we only have 900 per annum and with the pretty intense flying which the lo-cost airlines do, being available to work all of those days all year round will grind you down over the years, further more, with Ryanair's terms & conditions, when the 900 hr limit is breached, your pay will either reduce dramatically or stop all together.
As to what to do about this mess, well, shoot me down if you want, and I'm sure many will, but you need to get a union in there. It won't be able to perform miracles, but over time it will engender a sense of solitary amongst the workforce and start to improve your lot. As noted there is a lot to improve!
As has been noted already, a 100 years of social progress is being undone. Our forefathers, through organisations like BALPA, have campaigned over many years to improve our lot and many seem to be content to see all this go and in it's place working piecemeal for a shekel or two.
When Ryanair's lack of 'extras' is remarked on, their pilots retort only seems to mention uniform and IDs and the like. These aren't extras I'd be concerned about, think about PHI for when you go sick and employer pension contributions for when you're old. My lot provide PHI, which pays out 75% of pre-disablement salary up to retirement age, after that you can rely on a pretty descent pension. For info, a yr 2 F/O can expect the company to tip in £7500 per annum into his pot and this amount will increase in line salary increments and command etc.
Please take what bigots like D O Guerrero say about BALPA with a pinch of salt (suspect some sort of agenda is behind it and I doubt it's altogether wholesome), it's not the union that is causing job loses, it's to a degree inept management to blame, but moreover a factor of being a mature business. Things are fine and dandy in Ryanair whilst it's expanding and it may seem infallible now (Air Europe anyone?), but sooner or later this will stop. It will then be a mature business. When the next downturn happens, which it will...(!), I predict Ryanair will drop who it likes like a hot stone. From 1st hand experience over the years, BALPA, through member elected Company Councils, put a lot of effort into cajoling managements into things like voluntary severance and stand down. Don't expect such niceties with Ryanair.
Ryanair has provided very rapid advancement for many and provided a home for those who until now have been travellers around the industry. This is very good, however it's come at a price. Many here don't seem to aspire to more than a healthy pay check and are oblivious to the sense of professional dignity that inherited traditions within longer established carriers provide. When I see a Ryanair 737 park on the apron, I'm very sorry to say this, but the dark satanic mills of the Victorian era.
This fixed pattern roster thing. Now I can see the advantages in terms of planning life outside work, but we only have 900 per annum and with the pretty intense flying which the lo-cost airlines do, being available to work all of those days all year round will grind you down over the years, further more, with Ryanair's terms & conditions, when the 900 hr limit is breached, your pay will either reduce dramatically or stop all together.
As to what to do about this mess, well, shoot me down if you want, and I'm sure many will, but you need to get a union in there. It won't be able to perform miracles, but over time it will engender a sense of solitary amongst the workforce and start to improve your lot. As noted there is a lot to improve!
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Security at Birmingham regularly move on Ryanair "campers" from the car park! Im guessing they didnt get the premium car park pass 
Im told at Belfast a Ryanair pilot lives in a camper van in the car park, I assume a Captain as he can afford the premium car park pass and camper van.
I admire the blinkered loyalty of some of the Ryan pilots on this thread, I can only assume most if all have never worked for any other company. Wait till you become expensive see how fast MOL drops you!
O and for the record I have never applied to or had any wish to apply to ryanair! I do however know several guys who work for, and have worked for ryan and have nothing good to say about them what so ever, other than the roster is ok if it suits your lifestyle. In fact most of the afore mentioned guys advise friends and family to avoid them like the plague! Tell me why would they say that with all the insider knowledge they have??
Im told at Belfast a Ryanair pilot lives in a camper van in the car park, I assume a Captain as he can afford the premium car park pass and camper van.
I admire the blinkered loyalty of some of the Ryan pilots on this thread, I can only assume most if all have never worked for any other company. Wait till you become expensive see how fast MOL drops you!
O and for the record I have never applied to or had any wish to apply to ryanair! I do however know several guys who work for, and have worked for ryan and have nothing good to say about them what so ever, other than the roster is ok if it suits your lifestyle. In fact most of the afore mentioned guys advise friends and family to avoid them like the plague! Tell me why would they say that with all the insider knowledge they have??
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probably phone my insurance company and make a claim, after all thats what i pay it for!
You may be suprised by the fact you didn't mention to them that you sneezed 3 years ago has actually made your policy void.
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Originally Posted by q1W2e3R4t5
rubbish, i'm based there and not seen a thing. If there ever have been people seen sleeping in cars its maybe been someone not based there who had a drive to get there and is simply too early and catching a quick shut eye before reporting
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Yep. I can. The only time I've ever fallen asleep is when I was in the taxi on the way back to my normal base. You see, the CAA aren't keen on you driving to other airfields other than your nominated base before a duty.
There are good reasons for that. Let me guess, you have to drive your own car to the other base too.... FFS, even Emerald airways (that doyen of staff care and consideration) didn't do that. (Well, they tried but got told off.)
The nearest RYR base that you can drive to would be Dublin, so you are saying that crews regularly drive for over 2 hours to another airport BEFORE a duty...
Then drive home afterwards... Holy cow.
There are good reasons for that. Let me guess, you have to drive your own car to the other base too.... FFS, even Emerald airways (that doyen of staff care and consideration) didn't do that. (Well, they tried but got told off.)
The nearest RYR base that you can drive to would be Dublin, so you are saying that crews regularly drive for over 2 hours to another airport BEFORE a duty...
Then drive home afterwards... Holy cow.
Last edited by Say again s l o w l y; 7th Nov 2009 at 19:31.
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Originally Posted by q1W2e3R4t5
who said anything about driving for 2 hours there and then home again? some people can still have a drive of 30 mins or so to work.
Must fill you in then on a great feature of English motorways. They are called Services. They are littered up and down and provide some valuable rest on a long car journey. Maybe you'd prefer to drive non stop somewhere and crank the window down a touch before you nod off. Do you carry a lucozade bottle in the glove box incase nature calls too?
Must fill you in then on a great feature of English motorways. They are called Services. They are littered up and down and provide some valuable rest on a long car journey. Maybe you'd prefer to drive non stop somewhere and crank the window down a touch before you nod off. Do you carry a lucozade bottle in the glove box incase nature calls too?
What motorway services have got to do with aircrew fatigue I have no idea. You don't seem to be able to grasp the basic fundamentals of what I'm saying.
Whatever your thoughts, might I suggest you read a little document called CAP371, of course you aren't bound by it as you work for an Irish company and it is an advisory document for the rest of us as our own FTL manual takes precedence. See what it says about positioning before a duty. Note the word BEFORE.
Driving to your normal base is one thing, driving to another completely different. Let me guess, you don't sign on for work until you reach the other base either...
I used to be based 360 miles from where I lived, so I'm used to this issue. It is easily manageable by making sure you have somewhere to stay that isn't your car. Hard to do when you are being shuttled around the country from one day to the next.
Having learnt my trade on aircraft that didn't have toilets fitted, then I recommend you carry a bottle a bit bigger than a 500ml lucozade one.
If you can't work out the potential fatigue issues with this, then may I humbly suggest you try. Fatigue is a killer, end of story. I know more than one person who has ended up upside down in the central reservation of the M1 on the drive home from another base. After a punishing duty.
It ain't big and it certainly isn't clever. Or does fatigue not affect people who work for RYR?
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Has anyone ever wondered, in their argument that RYR are making such good profits reletive to others, if they are comparing apples with apples. Many on this thread, in other occupation, argue that they are receiving pension contributions, PHI cover, no deductions for uniforms/sims etc. plus other duty benefits. RYR pays nothing of these. Further, they 'employ' more than 50% contractors. Thus they save a massive amount on government premiums. They also have the most extensive of add on charges for pax. Indeed, the travel section of DT calculated that in 2008 they made 650m on charges, but only 350m profit. Thus most of their profit is from avoiding employment costs common to most industries and other ancillery charges. Talk to your friends who earn over 50.000pa and ask them about their benefits included in their T's & C's as standard. Ask any friends who earn +80.000. You'll be amazed what they receive, AND expect. Look to ourselves and see how cheaply you've sold your souls. Then consider that if RYR had to pay these similar costs to its airline competitors what its profits would be. I suspect very little if any.
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Originally Posted by q1W2e3R4t5
the services were for the benefit of sas as i'm guessing they are main land. the point was that when normal people need a rest we pull over but as sas only sleeps in a taxi to and from bases they wouldn't have experienced the joy of little chef.
once again who said I often see people driving from other bases. i was simply providing a reason why someone might have been seen parked up. employees are most certainly not moving between bases like that. i've better things to be getting on with than standing in dublin airport car parks counting fo's.
as the name of this thread suggests i doubt i'll ever get my point across to all you ryr supporters. might as well just
once again who said I often see people driving from other bases. i was simply providing a reason why someone might have been seen parked up. employees are most certainly not moving between bases like that. i've better things to be getting on with than standing in dublin airport car parks counting fo's.
as the name of this thread suggests i doubt i'll ever get my point across to all you ryr supporters. might as well just
Why are people parked up? If they are because of what you say, then how can you possibly say it's a sensible thing. You shouldn't need to fall asleep in your car before a duty. If you're early, then just go in and get things sorted out for the day at work. If you are falling asleep before you start work, then that is a serious problem.
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There's a fairly easy test. On a cold night, if the car windows are full of condensation and the bonnet is cold, then they've been there a while.
Now, earlier on you said that you've never seen anyone doing it, now you're saying we should knock on their windows and ask.
So, what is it? Do RYR pilots sleep in their cars?
Now, earlier on you said that you've never seen anyone doing it, now you're saying we should knock on their windows and ask.
So, what is it? Do RYR pilots sleep in their cars?
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Sleeping in cars is not a 'priviledge' reserved only for FR pilots.
Last Boxing Day night, in the absence of anywhere to stay near Base, I slept in my freezing car.
With ice forming on the inside it proved a thoroughly misserable experience. But, I needed the gig.
I am not with FR but with a private Biz Jet Op.
Last Boxing Day night, in the absence of anywhere to stay near Base, I slept in my freezing car.
With ice forming on the inside it proved a thoroughly misserable experience. But, I needed the gig.
I am not with FR but with a private Biz Jet Op.
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If this is the calibre of thought from someone who calls themselves a pilot, then I truly am saddened. No wonder our profession is in trouble. 
BigNumber, did you not think a hotel might be a sensible idea? They are often pretty cheap at that time of year. How do you think the person you were flying would have reacted had you told them of your previous nights accomodation?
I too have slept in cars before, but never before work, usually at sailing events across Europe and it is a miserable experience and it is virtually impossible to get any form of decent rest. So when you wake up, you are already shattered and whilst you might think you are ok to go, you really, really aren't.
I would hope that anyone who likes to think of themselves as a Professional would understand this and then either refuse to do it, or use some nouse and find suitable accomodation.
It seems it is only financial constraints that are forcing people to sleep in cars and that is simply not a good enough excuse.
Mind you, if you had the ability to negotiate your contracts to something resembling a decent one, then perhaps the financial pressures wouldn't be so prevalent and the company might even pay for your accomodation away from home base. Some of you seem to think that this is crazy talk, when in reality it's nothing short of the absolute bare minimum you should expect.
Talk about having low expectations and no pride in yourself or our profession.
BigNumber, did you not think a hotel might be a sensible idea? They are often pretty cheap at that time of year. How do you think the person you were flying would have reacted had you told them of your previous nights accomodation?
I too have slept in cars before, but never before work, usually at sailing events across Europe and it is a miserable experience and it is virtually impossible to get any form of decent rest. So when you wake up, you are already shattered and whilst you might think you are ok to go, you really, really aren't.
I would hope that anyone who likes to think of themselves as a Professional would understand this and then either refuse to do it, or use some nouse and find suitable accomodation.
It seems it is only financial constraints that are forcing people to sleep in cars and that is simply not a good enough excuse.
Mind you, if you had the ability to negotiate your contracts to something resembling a decent one, then perhaps the financial pressures wouldn't be so prevalent and the company might even pay for your accomodation away from home base. Some of you seem to think that this is crazy talk, when in reality it's nothing short of the absolute bare minimum you should expect.
Talk about having low expectations and no pride in yourself or our profession.
Gender Faculty Specialist
come on over and you'll enjoy the best pay and best roster in the industry
financial constraints that are forcing people to sleep in cars
Please excuse my comments here but not to be too delicate about this,what on earth do these 'sleepers in cars' do for ,ahem,ablutions? The hygiene aspects of this cost -saving exercise in order to maximise the massive ryr package seem to leave something to be desired.I doubt whether the former eastern-bloc hosties will be too impressed with b.o.(neither would I if sat next to you).
cheers
cheers
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Alpine Skier, I think you might have misread my post - I'm suggesting a way for Whistleblower to get what he wants - and its not going to be through withdrawal of labour. Whistleblower by name - Whisleblower by nature might have the desired effect. The travelling public put safety above all else and time pressured pilots relying on the packed lunch they may or may not have had the time to prepare before they left at 4:00am are a safety concern. As are all of the other practices being forced upon RYR crew. The market will vote with its feet. At the moment they vote RYR because they see price as the overriding factor but they are mis-informed - and markets only work properly if all information is available. If they understood the risks involved in taking the seat for 99p they might buy elsewhere.