Do You Trust Your Colleagues?
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Do You Trust Your Colleagues?
We're under threat of "rationalisation" and of course, it's the hot topic amongst the crews. Seemed like we were all in it together, supportive of one another, etc., etc,. However, it's now rumoured that one or two have gone directly to management and worked out their own "job protection" schemes - working for less pay, taking no allowances, etc. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Can you blame them? The jury's out on that one.
Yes I can blame them, and no on the whole I don't trust them pleasant as many of them are. I have been backstabbed (and frontstabbed) in this profession too many times to believe anything that anyone says.
It wasn't always like that. Back fresh on the 73 fleet back in '04 life was wonderful... but there was me thinking that all colleagues acted in their colleagues (and friends) best interests. Jaded yes. Cynical.. most definitely. I've been screwed one too many times and it wasn't always the management circus either.
It wasn't always like that. Back fresh on the 73 fleet back in '04 life was wonderful... but there was me thinking that all colleagues acted in their colleagues (and friends) best interests. Jaded yes. Cynical.. most definitely. I've been screwed one too many times and it wasn't always the management circus either.
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We're under threat of "rationalisation" and of course, it's the hot topic amongst the crews. Seemed like we were all in it together, supportive of one another, etc., etc,. However, it's now rumoured that one or two have gone directly to management and worked out their own "job protection" schemes - working for less pay, taking no allowances, etc. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Can you blame them? The jury's out on that one.
Last edited by mona lot; 14th Sep 2009 at 18:52.
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yes..I agree to that..I am in a lot where there is a dad and son , captain and fo.The dad seems to be shielding the son from anything that might expose the later`s lack of competence ...Backstabbing seems the order of the day.
What action can I take considering that they seems to well connected ie tha old man has been in this organisation for yonks.
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Trust a pilot? Are you serious? There is more solidarity in the worst whorehouse in Bangkok than in the best airline! Yes, there are brownnoses who liaised with the management already. And yes, they will pay the price one day. Seen it before, will happen again. Not a lot you can do.
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Haven't been in the industry all that long, but by jeaz this seems all too evident.
Pilot solidarity, comradeship, 'we are all in it tougher.' Bolleaux! More like 'Sod you jack, I'm all right.' Hoist the anchor up and sail off to sanctuary. They know who they are, as does everyone else. It's too small an industry for their actions to be forgotten.
Pilot solidarity, comradeship, 'we are all in it tougher.' Bolleaux! More like 'Sod you jack, I'm all right.' Hoist the anchor up and sail off to sanctuary. They know who they are, as does everyone else. It's too small an industry for their actions to be forgotten.
Trust another pilot? You are joking of course.
I was a captain with a company that went bust. When the company went down the pan, I went to see the chap in charge of the pension fund (he is now underground - or even under water in his case) and asked him what I should do.
"Ah well", said he, "you haven't been here very long so you might as well take your contributions back and go". And so it was that I got a cheque for £3000 from the pension fund.
Some years down the road, another friend said to me one day "the pension fund is doing great". "Why?" said I. "Oh! Capt Bloggs is persuading lots of people who badly need the money to take out their 6% contribution and, of course, the 15% that the company contributed on their behalf still stays in the fund"!
That was the day that I grew up.
Trust a pilot in the flight deck - no problem.
Otherwise, forget it.
I was a captain with a company that went bust. When the company went down the pan, I went to see the chap in charge of the pension fund (he is now underground - or even under water in his case) and asked him what I should do.
"Ah well", said he, "you haven't been here very long so you might as well take your contributions back and go". And so it was that I got a cheque for £3000 from the pension fund.
Some years down the road, another friend said to me one day "the pension fund is doing great". "Why?" said I. "Oh! Capt Bloggs is persuading lots of people who badly need the money to take out their 6% contribution and, of course, the 15% that the company contributed on their behalf still stays in the fund"!
That was the day that I grew up.
Trust a pilot in the flight deck - no problem.
Otherwise, forget it.
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I have to say ive seen this before and been at the brunt of it.
colleauges who will try there best to #### you over just to get on the right side off management and to have some job security.
Its sort of a mental infancy.
These people though usually end up having no friends and Callsign kilo is right it is way too small industry to get off with your exploits scott free.
Payback is always around the corner.
I dont know about you! but i wouldnt want to live my life like that.
colleauges who will try there best to #### you over just to get on the right side off management and to have some job security.
Its sort of a mental infancy.
These people though usually end up having no friends and Callsign kilo is right it is way too small industry to get off with your exploits scott free.
Payback is always around the corner.
I dont know about you! but i wouldnt want to live my life like that.
Loyalty
Early on during my formative years I was taught that to fly one of HM's nice aircraft my head had to rotate 360 deg in all axis and never to trust anyone.
I was lucky enough to witnes some extraordinary acts of loyalty whilst wearing light blue, but since I ventured forth into the real world that early advice has been invaluable!
Guys, just remember that what goes around comes around. I hope that some of you who I have mentored will pass on what I tried to teach you.
MM
I was lucky enough to witnes some extraordinary acts of loyalty whilst wearing light blue, but since I ventured forth into the real world that early advice has been invaluable!
Guys, just remember that what goes around comes around. I hope that some of you who I have mentored will pass on what I tried to teach you.
MM
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Colleagues???Loyalty???
I left the armed forces 7 years ago to chase my dream to become a commercial pilot. I forfilled the dream as a 737 capt. It cost me a fortune, but I can live with that. Although the price I have to pay to end up in a industry like the airlines?!!!
No words to describe this immoral sick industry. Selfish and shallow.
Why is it that something delicious is often fatning?
No words to describe this immoral sick industry. Selfish and shallow.
Why is it that something delicious is often fatning?
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Aviation, like any other industry has to react to the ups and downs of the market. This means more subcontracting to spread the risk and allow a more flexible cost base, inevitably this means more shorter term and temporary positions.
In such an environment, I have learnt that it is better to be part of a small organisation with low overheads that is prepared to be flexible and reactive - and not be a part of a large dinosaur that has too much inertia to be effective in such circumstances.
Additionally, this means being far more involved and payment / T&Cs and reacting to the client's needs. In the industries in which I have worked, I never liked a group negotiation or some cak-assed union representing me, I always preferred a direct approach. This allowed me to decide my own pay, conditions. I don't see why you should bad mouth anyone who is prepared to undercut the competition, whether that is internal or external competition.
However, someone breaking ranks when there are unresolved issues such as pilot fatigue and degradation of training and mentoring seems to me to be the main issue - have a go at them for eroding the quality of the profession if you like but don't attack anyone who wants to negotiate their own deal and not be treated as part of a pack - that stinks of the 1970s.
In such an environment, I have learnt that it is better to be part of a small organisation with low overheads that is prepared to be flexible and reactive - and not be a part of a large dinosaur that has too much inertia to be effective in such circumstances.
Additionally, this means being far more involved and payment / T&Cs and reacting to the client's needs. In the industries in which I have worked, I never liked a group negotiation or some cak-assed union representing me, I always preferred a direct approach. This allowed me to decide my own pay, conditions. I don't see why you should bad mouth anyone who is prepared to undercut the competition, whether that is internal or external competition.
However, someone breaking ranks when there are unresolved issues such as pilot fatigue and degradation of training and mentoring seems to me to be the main issue - have a go at them for eroding the quality of the profession if you like but don't attack anyone who wants to negotiate their own deal and not be treated as part of a pack - that stinks of the 1970s.
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It really does depend on what you mean by the word "Trust"? The dictionary gives a host of meanings, and even within those meanings there are a further list of subjective interpretations.
There have been two analogies to "whores" so far. However at the basic level there seems to be little to differentiate any two people hiring out their skills and talents for monetary reward, that would make the analogy particulary noteworthy.
Protection is a basic human necessity, and it follows that can best be achieved if others we find ourselves in a group with, are not perceived as a threat to that protection. That is fairly easy when there is a common threat, not so easy when the threat is targetted or specific.
So the seemingly simple question "do you trust your colleagues?" Becomes much more difficult when you start to define the word trust, or ask in what context is the word being used.
Would I trust my colleagues to do their job to the best of their ability? Yes, but that trust isn't so absolute that their actions are not questioned, or cross checked.
Would I trust them to put my interests above their own, or that of their children or families? No, that would be an unusual and normally unnatural hierarchy of priorities.
Would I trust them with a confidence? Yes and no. Some would have demonstrated a higher level of discretion than others. In some cases that "trust" would prove misplaced.
Would I trust them to refuse an opportunity on the basis that it would be in any way unfair to others? No, some might, but that wouldn't generally satisfy their concern, nor would it satisfy an average level of human competitive behaviour.
This industry isn't any more "sick, selfish or shallow," than broadly any other. It is commercial business, with all that entails. It relies on human participation with all the inherent components of competitiveness, greed, pride, achievement, success, failure, ambition, fear, desire, etc. These ingredients will be mixed in millions of different ways to formulate the make up of the individual participants to the business.
If the businesses themselves and the individuals within them are operating in a predatory environment, then they will seek protection. That protection is usually found in size or numbers. Mergers, consolidations, partnerships, alliances, groups, unions, associations, gangs! It is the perception of safety that is sought and offered. The reality may be vastly different, and the vast array of individual personalities within the group will not significantly change though. Such groupings might well prove effective at affording a better level of protection, but the idea that there will be any homogenization of the individual personalities involved (including your own,) would be very erroneous.
There seems to be a surprising number of people that fail to see the competitive and predatory nature of business. Similarly with the fact that they have a skill or talent that is only of value if somebody else wants to buy it. That the skill or talent is still subject to the laws of supply and demand, and that the competition will do whatever it takes to capture that business from them.
Trust like many things in life is a measured and valuable commodity, to be used wisely and carefully. Often it is an overworked and misused word employed as a sticking plaster over the wounds of the naive and unlucky.
There have been two analogies to "whores" so far. However at the basic level there seems to be little to differentiate any two people hiring out their skills and talents for monetary reward, that would make the analogy particulary noteworthy.
Protection is a basic human necessity, and it follows that can best be achieved if others we find ourselves in a group with, are not perceived as a threat to that protection. That is fairly easy when there is a common threat, not so easy when the threat is targetted or specific.
So the seemingly simple question "do you trust your colleagues?" Becomes much more difficult when you start to define the word trust, or ask in what context is the word being used.
Would I trust my colleagues to do their job to the best of their ability? Yes, but that trust isn't so absolute that their actions are not questioned, or cross checked.
Would I trust them to put my interests above their own, or that of their children or families? No, that would be an unusual and normally unnatural hierarchy of priorities.
Would I trust them with a confidence? Yes and no. Some would have demonstrated a higher level of discretion than others. In some cases that "trust" would prove misplaced.
Would I trust them to refuse an opportunity on the basis that it would be in any way unfair to others? No, some might, but that wouldn't generally satisfy their concern, nor would it satisfy an average level of human competitive behaviour.
This industry isn't any more "sick, selfish or shallow," than broadly any other. It is commercial business, with all that entails. It relies on human participation with all the inherent components of competitiveness, greed, pride, achievement, success, failure, ambition, fear, desire, etc. These ingredients will be mixed in millions of different ways to formulate the make up of the individual participants to the business.
If the businesses themselves and the individuals within them are operating in a predatory environment, then they will seek protection. That protection is usually found in size or numbers. Mergers, consolidations, partnerships, alliances, groups, unions, associations, gangs! It is the perception of safety that is sought and offered. The reality may be vastly different, and the vast array of individual personalities within the group will not significantly change though. Such groupings might well prove effective at affording a better level of protection, but the idea that there will be any homogenization of the individual personalities involved (including your own,) would be very erroneous.
There seems to be a surprising number of people that fail to see the competitive and predatory nature of business. Similarly with the fact that they have a skill or talent that is only of value if somebody else wants to buy it. That the skill or talent is still subject to the laws of supply and demand, and that the competition will do whatever it takes to capture that business from them.
Trust like many things in life is a measured and valuable commodity, to be used wisely and carefully. Often it is an overworked and misused word employed as a sticking plaster over the wounds of the naive and unlucky.
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This industry is lagging by all of the other industries in terms of solidarity. That's why you can't trust no one except yourself. Look around you. It's all about yourself. No one to cover your back.
Look it up guys: Social solidarity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and let's start the revolution and change.
Look it up guys: Social solidarity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and let's start the revolution and change.
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Trust relies on honesty. It's sickening when the colleagues who were agonising with you over the collective future of the group have gone behind your back, sorted out a deal and said nothing about it.
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It's because...
...we're all living in la-la-land. We're all dreamers and romantics.
Anybody who is in this profession doing the job at the pointy end has most likely paid a fortune to get there. That fortune has been offered in the belief that being a pilot is something special.
Well, I hate to break it to you: it's not.
If we all grew up and looked at the job we do for what it is and not for what it means, we would be in a better position.
And no: I don't trust my colleagues. I'm in the process of being well and truly done over along with my colleages. Despite seeing their lives being demolished by a mad CEO, they still don't have the ability to speak up and resist. So no, I don't trust my colleagues.
Anybody who is in this profession doing the job at the pointy end has most likely paid a fortune to get there. That fortune has been offered in the belief that being a pilot is something special.
Well, I hate to break it to you: it's not.
If we all grew up and looked at the job we do for what it is and not for what it means, we would be in a better position.
And no: I don't trust my colleagues. I'm in the process of being well and truly done over along with my colleages. Despite seeing their lives being demolished by a mad CEO, they still don't have the ability to speak up and resist. So no, I don't trust my colleagues.
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"Do you trust your colleagues?"
No in a word. I don't have blind trust in colleagues in the cockpit either.
Let me give you a later example. I fly at times with a co captain, who is ex "flag carrier" B744. I had been on leave, legal to fly but out of practise. As it was my sector I mentioned this fact to my colleague and briefed this at the appropriate time. My co captain set the fms up prior to both of us, running the full pre flight checklist. On checking the fms, the speeds that were produced, were for a flap setting we very seldom use, if ever in our operation. This seldom used flap setting is not defaulted in the fms, for safety reasons, so it had to have been a deliberate action. I picked the "mistake" up and I should have. If I didn't and he had forgotten about the "mistake" it may not have been good. When the flight was completed I demonstrated the system default and the look I gave him said all that needed to be said.
Rather reminds me of an engineer we used to have on board years ago in another "life" who would create a snag, then wallow in the glory when he "troubleshooted" it.
Never ever completely trust a colleague in or out of the cockpit, regardless of their background or experience. The background, experience and the past type does not make the man. Please bare in mind the individual in question would have gone through all the hoops, psychometric tests etc., to have got the position he held at the "flag carrier".
My advise is, watch your back very closely indeed. Paranoid? No just experienced in human nature.
No in a word. I don't have blind trust in colleagues in the cockpit either.
Let me give you a later example. I fly at times with a co captain, who is ex "flag carrier" B744. I had been on leave, legal to fly but out of practise. As it was my sector I mentioned this fact to my colleague and briefed this at the appropriate time. My co captain set the fms up prior to both of us, running the full pre flight checklist. On checking the fms, the speeds that were produced, were for a flap setting we very seldom use, if ever in our operation. This seldom used flap setting is not defaulted in the fms, for safety reasons, so it had to have been a deliberate action. I picked the "mistake" up and I should have. If I didn't and he had forgotten about the "mistake" it may not have been good. When the flight was completed I demonstrated the system default and the look I gave him said all that needed to be said.
Rather reminds me of an engineer we used to have on board years ago in another "life" who would create a snag, then wallow in the glory when he "troubleshooted" it.
Never ever completely trust a colleague in or out of the cockpit, regardless of their background or experience. The background, experience and the past type does not make the man. Please bare in mind the individual in question would have gone through all the hoops, psychometric tests etc., to have got the position he held at the "flag carrier".
My advise is, watch your back very closely indeed. Paranoid? No just experienced in human nature.
Last edited by screwballburling; 24th Sep 2009 at 11:25.
