Winter reductions and part time: urgent
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 203
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From: Planet earth
Winter reductions and part time: urgent
Our European low cost company has reduced flights for the winter. Starting in October. It is putting 4 airplanes up for maintenance.
The company is threatening to fire 41 pilots out of approx 365.
By seniority.
The company is forecasting a profit for 2009.
We are looking for win win solutions to this problem.
Last year with winter reduction many pilots took the part time option ( 4 month part time contract ) to avoid having fellow pilots fired.
Reductions of 25% and 50% are being offered
Leave of absence also offered
As the pay ( low base pay ) is based on performance hour and sector pay,
if we avoided having pilots fired then all pilots would in effect reduce.
Need your help in seeing how your and other companies deal with the reduction of flights for the winter season.
Temporary Part time and all year round part time options.
Thanks a lot for your input to pass on the right people.
The company is threatening to fire 41 pilots out of approx 365.
By seniority.
The company is forecasting a profit for 2009.
We are looking for win win solutions to this problem.
Last year with winter reduction many pilots took the part time option ( 4 month part time contract ) to avoid having fellow pilots fired.
Reductions of 25% and 50% are being offered
Leave of absence also offered
As the pay ( low base pay ) is based on performance hour and sector pay,
if we avoided having pilots fired then all pilots would in effect reduce.
Need your help in seeing how your and other companies deal with the reduction of flights for the winter season.
Temporary Part time and all year round part time options.
Thanks a lot for your input to pass on the right people.
Last edited by Jimmy Hoffa Rocks; 13th September 2009 at 08:03.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,432
Likes: 0
From: Dre's mum's house
Given that your company wants to lay off 41 pilots for 4 airplanes suggests that with a complement of 365 pilots you have around 35 / 36 airplanes in total: 10.25 per frame including, I guess, managers.
For the 6 months low season between October and April you have 5 x 31 day months and 1 x 30 day month, total of 185 working days.
That equates to 185 x 365 working pilot days without redundancies, or 67525 days in total.
What the company is telling you is that they only have work for 324 x 185 pilot working days, 59940 days.
If you divide those available days between the original 365 you get 164 days, or a 12% reduction.
But the company still has the social fund bills to pay for 365 pilots, so you offer a 25% pay reduction across the board for a 75% roster.
Simple solution is that everyone, instead of working a 28 paid cycle, works 21 days on duty and takes 7 unpaid days per cycle.
The company saves on recruitment, retraining, retains experience and if the market conditions pick up over the winter and they need extra crews they are available instantly simply by increasing the rostered work patterns as no one goes out of currency. In addition, your sickness cover is enormous for the worst part of the year.
The pilots all keep a job, albeit at 75% salary, but have more time off.
For the 6 months low season between October and April you have 5 x 31 day months and 1 x 30 day month, total of 185 working days.
That equates to 185 x 365 working pilot days without redundancies, or 67525 days in total.
What the company is telling you is that they only have work for 324 x 185 pilot working days, 59940 days.
If you divide those available days between the original 365 you get 164 days, or a 12% reduction.
But the company still has the social fund bills to pay for 365 pilots, so you offer a 25% pay reduction across the board for a 75% roster.
Simple solution is that everyone, instead of working a 28 paid cycle, works 21 days on duty and takes 7 unpaid days per cycle.
The company saves on recruitment, retraining, retains experience and if the market conditions pick up over the winter and they need extra crews they are available instantly simply by increasing the rostered work patterns as no one goes out of currency. In addition, your sickness cover is enormous for the worst part of the year.
The pilots all keep a job, albeit at 75% salary, but have more time off.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
From: In a nice house
TOM/FCA had various options to reduce numbers.
Part-time working (3 weeks on/3 weeks off), part-year working (full time for 4/5 months in summer, part time in winter - 75%, 50% or 0% in winter), career breaks, unpaid leave in winter (but still got paid 33%), and the latest was that we had nearly 150 too many pilots. We introduced (well, BALPA working with the company did) a scheme whereby we kept the extra pilots, and the cost of them was split 50/50 with the company. We all took a pay cut of around £100 a month which reduced if those pilots were used (not specifically individuals but if the number of pilots needed for the roster used the extras). We actually ended up with a surplus of only around 30. We all got extra days off each month. The number of days off each pilot was to have each calendar month was specified. The agreement had specific and regular review points (company/ BALPA CC/ rostering dept would meet).
We also had a voluntary redundancy scheme which was taken up by quite a few and the company has been looking at secondments.
Part-time working (3 weeks on/3 weeks off), part-year working (full time for 4/5 months in summer, part time in winter - 75%, 50% or 0% in winter), career breaks, unpaid leave in winter (but still got paid 33%), and the latest was that we had nearly 150 too many pilots. We introduced (well, BALPA working with the company did) a scheme whereby we kept the extra pilots, and the cost of them was split 50/50 with the company. We all took a pay cut of around £100 a month which reduced if those pilots were used (not specifically individuals but if the number of pilots needed for the roster used the extras). We actually ended up with a surplus of only around 30. We all got extra days off each month. The number of days off each pilot was to have each calendar month was specified. The agreement had specific and regular review points (company/ BALPA CC/ rostering dept would meet).
We also had a voluntary redundancy scheme which was taken up by quite a few and the company has been looking at secondments.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 654
Likes: 4
From: Dublin
The problem is that folks become selfish and it's human nature not to give for the common good.Part time can work if all agree, however, it can also be a management nightmare with keeping people current, fixed overheads, holiday pay, LPCs etc, and usually guys get called in off standby to work, which again can cost money. Job share works better, but with the size of fleet you talk about I doubt it is feasible. 75% roster for 80% of the pay may work, why? because they can actually work you 85% of the normal FTLs on a 75% roster because of how the days off can be placed to keep it legal. No recency issues and max flex for crewing. It really depends if they want a simple formula or complex duty hour/pay related one.. best keep it simple and the bean counters understand. Or offer to let them hire your spare crew to another airline..its been done before.. depends if people want to be displaced.
