captain upgrade without immediate pay?
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captain upgrade without immediate pay?
Hi everyone,
I'm currently flying a corporate aircraft for company in the middle east. Due to one of our pilots being fired, I have been promoted to lead captain. However, I'm being told the pay icrease probably isn't coming until I prove myself capable as lead captain.
I've talked with a few that think that's normal.
I'm thinking that since I'm doing the job, I should get the pay now and if mgmt feels I've lacked, then they can figure out what to do with me then.
What's the peanut gallery think?
Thanks in advance.
I'm currently flying a corporate aircraft for company in the middle east. Due to one of our pilots being fired, I have been promoted to lead captain. However, I'm being told the pay icrease probably isn't coming until I prove myself capable as lead captain.
I've talked with a few that think that's normal.
I'm thinking that since I'm doing the job, I should get the pay now and if mgmt feels I've lacked, then they can figure out what to do with me then.
What's the peanut gallery think?
Thanks in advance.
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Did your employer invest additional money for your upgrade to “lead” captain? If yes, well a pay freeze may not unreasonable for a few trips so you can prove yourself. However, be prepared for your current position to be temporary as they may be searching a “lead” captain that meets their total requirements, while you meet their requirements as either a co-captain, or normal line captain without management responsibilities.
By the way how many of aircraft in your company. If more than one, are you qualified on all aircraft?
Anyway, with your promotion to “lead” captain;
Are you managing other employees such as F/Os, cabin crew, ground and or Maintenance personnel, and ground handlers?
Do you have to arrange your flight plans, overfly, and landing permits, catering etc.?
If you are ready to take a walk, do you have any alternative jobs lined up? And if so, are you prepared to tell your employers to go $hit in their hats if they don’t give you a raise commensurate with your increased responsibilities? If not then this whole discussion is moot.
By the way how many of aircraft in your company. If more than one, are you qualified on all aircraft?
Anyway, with your promotion to “lead” captain;
Are you managing other employees such as F/Os, cabin crew, ground and or Maintenance personnel, and ground handlers?
Do you have to arrange your flight plans, overfly, and landing permits, catering etc.?
If you are ready to take a walk, do you have any alternative jobs lined up? And if so, are you prepared to tell your employers to go $hit in their hats if they don’t give you a raise commensurate with your increased responsibilities? If not then this whole discussion is moot.
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Yes, yes, and yes. I'm not Chief Pilot, but a lead captain. Was a co-captn before. I know the salary of the previous pilot.
We don't have dispatch. Do our own weather. Make the calls to a flight plannning service, but still are responsible for that end, too. Coordinate with Mx and owner's schedule. Check up on Mx and responsible for keeping an eye on the progress. Sign off on the other's (except CP's) log and expense forms. Find hotels for crews and occasionally PAX. Arrange owner's requests before/during/after flights. yada yada yada...
FA orders catering, what a relief!
1 airplane. No other jobs lined up. was told the next person/people they hire will be not be higher on the chain. yeah yeah yeah... "told"... I know, I know.
Seems like if I continue on that path, I'm setting myself up for future not-so-great situations.
That said, I'm not in much of a position to demand, either. But they don't know that.
Not a bad company, really. But this does seem strange to me.
We don't have dispatch. Do our own weather. Make the calls to a flight plannning service, but still are responsible for that end, too. Coordinate with Mx and owner's schedule. Check up on Mx and responsible for keeping an eye on the progress. Sign off on the other's (except CP's) log and expense forms. Find hotels for crews and occasionally PAX. Arrange owner's requests before/during/after flights. yada yada yada...
FA orders catering, what a relief!
1 airplane. No other jobs lined up. was told the next person/people they hire will be not be higher on the chain. yeah yeah yeah... "told"... I know, I know.
Seems like if I continue on that path, I'm setting myself up for future not-so-great situations.
That said, I'm not in much of a position to demand, either. But they don't know that.
Not a bad company, really. But this does seem strange to me.
Last edited by Iflyme; 3rd Aug 2009 at 19:11. Reason: addition
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I'm sure you are aware that they will say one thing and do another... inother words they change their minds as often as the may change their shumaggs or thoubs. If you need the job, and the conditions are not unbearable then stick it out until a better opportunity comes along.
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My company did it, upgraded an FO to Captain on FO salary for the first x months. They're shafting us but they know that no-one will refuse when there are no other jobs out there. It's not right but command time is valuable and very, very few people can afford to say "no thanks". Principles don't pay the bills.
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In a one aircraft, non-public transport operation it makes no difference whether you call yourself Captain, Co-Captain or F/O. These titles only have any true relevance where they can be quantified by an identifiable command structure outlined in the AOC and approved by the relevant authority. In my opinion, if the new title entails more responsibility then in an ideal World it should pay more. However, in these uncertain times you might just have to take a view on that.
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These greedy bastards are all over the world. They are happily taking advantage of the bleak employment situation of today. But on the flip side of the coin some aviators have a tendency to be whores themselves. They’ll accept promotions, additional responsibilities, longer work hours. Too bad they don't have the back bone to step up to the plate and put their foot down to say “Enough is enough!”.
So now the descent on the staircase of respectability commences. The employer just got away with one offence. And guess what? He’ll just commit other offences with reductions in who knows what??? pay??? benefits??? quality of life??? poorer quality of layover hotels??? reduction in per-diem, since breakfast is included at the hotel? How much more are you going to take before you say, “I had enough of this show, and it’s time to move on?”
Come on! If the employer is balking at a raise in salary for the services rendered, and the added responsibility, as pointed out above, they are just arrogant cheap bastards, or they should sell the jet and fly commercially.
You remember the one, where a prospective buyer walks into a Rolls Royce dealership and asks the salesman… what kind of gas mileage dose this Silver Shadow get. To which the salesman’s reply is if you have to ask about the gas mileage, then you can’t afford the car?
So now the descent on the staircase of respectability commences. The employer just got away with one offence. And guess what? He’ll just commit other offences with reductions in who knows what??? pay??? benefits??? quality of life??? poorer quality of layover hotels??? reduction in per-diem, since breakfast is included at the hotel? How much more are you going to take before you say, “I had enough of this show, and it’s time to move on?”
Come on! If the employer is balking at a raise in salary for the services rendered, and the added responsibility, as pointed out above, they are just arrogant cheap bastards, or they should sell the jet and fly commercially.
You remember the one, where a prospective buyer walks into a Rolls Royce dealership and asks the salesman… what kind of gas mileage dose this Silver Shadow get. To which the salesman’s reply is if you have to ask about the gas mileage, then you can’t afford the car?
