Brookfield FO contract
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Brookfield FO contract
I'm a retired pilot who was approached by a young guy who I know through our flying club looking for some advice regarding a contract he was offered with Brookfield. I sent him off to my old accountant and the accountant actually laughed at the contract.
However when the FO told BRK that he was not going to use any of the three accountants named in the contract he was bullied into using one of them on the basis that if he did not then he would not be paid.
The contract is not worth the paper it is written on. The contractor is responsible for filing his taxes. The question arises then if there is a problem with the tax return filed by the tax advisers named in the contract or with advise they give.
The professional opinion that we got is that the pilot would be able to sue Brookfield for any losses resulting from the actions or advice of the tax adviser that they were forced to use.
The other side of it is that without providing an indemnity to the pilot BRK can't legally enforce the contract and make a pilot use one of the accountants in the contract.
It is likely that a pilot could take a legal case and prove that by signing the contract, BRK are in fact agreeing to indemnify the pilot against any losses incurred as a result of being forced to use an accountant of BRK's nomination.
However the reality is that any FO who even considers standing up to BRK on this matter is being left in no doubt as to the effect it would have on the amount of time his name will appear on the roster.
Its a disgraceful situation, but so long as everyone who signs the contract lets BRK know that they appreciate that by making them use the services of one of the accountants named in the contract BRK are accepting liability for any losses incurred by the contractor pilot as a result of the actions or advice of the accountants used. This would include paying fees to another tax advisor to sort out the errors.
It will be interesting to see if BRK remain as bullish in the face of the potential expenses if a few guys let them know that they expect BRK to cover any losses incurred as a result of the actions or advice of the accountant forced on them.
In general legal terms a contractor does not have to employ the services of an accountant if they don't want to. You are responsible for your own taxes. This means that even if you use a tax adviser to prepare and file your return the tax office will still treat it as though you had prepared it and sent it in yourself.
It like going to get your car serviced before getting snediong if for its MOT. If it fails its your problem and not the mechanic who serviced it even if he told you it was fine and would pass no worries.
So any BRK guys who are being forced to pay for an accountant named in the contract make sure you make BRK aware of the fact that in the event of a loss to you as a result of the actions of their accountants you will under the terms of the contract between you and BRK, expect them to make good on any losses.
However when the FO told BRK that he was not going to use any of the three accountants named in the contract he was bullied into using one of them on the basis that if he did not then he would not be paid.
The contract is not worth the paper it is written on. The contractor is responsible for filing his taxes. The question arises then if there is a problem with the tax return filed by the tax advisers named in the contract or with advise they give.
The professional opinion that we got is that the pilot would be able to sue Brookfield for any losses resulting from the actions or advice of the tax adviser that they were forced to use.
The other side of it is that without providing an indemnity to the pilot BRK can't legally enforce the contract and make a pilot use one of the accountants in the contract.
It is likely that a pilot could take a legal case and prove that by signing the contract, BRK are in fact agreeing to indemnify the pilot against any losses incurred as a result of being forced to use an accountant of BRK's nomination.
However the reality is that any FO who even considers standing up to BRK on this matter is being left in no doubt as to the effect it would have on the amount of time his name will appear on the roster.
Its a disgraceful situation, but so long as everyone who signs the contract lets BRK know that they appreciate that by making them use the services of one of the accountants named in the contract BRK are accepting liability for any losses incurred by the contractor pilot as a result of the actions or advice of the accountants used. This would include paying fees to another tax advisor to sort out the errors.
It will be interesting to see if BRK remain as bullish in the face of the potential expenses if a few guys let them know that they expect BRK to cover any losses incurred as a result of the actions or advice of the accountant forced on them.
In general legal terms a contractor does not have to employ the services of an accountant if they don't want to. You are responsible for your own taxes. This means that even if you use a tax adviser to prepare and file your return the tax office will still treat it as though you had prepared it and sent it in yourself.
It like going to get your car serviced before getting snediong if for its MOT. If it fails its your problem and not the mechanic who serviced it even if he told you it was fine and would pass no worries.
So any BRK guys who are being forced to pay for an accountant named in the contract make sure you make BRK aware of the fact that in the event of a loss to you as a result of the actions of their accountants you will under the terms of the contract between you and BRK, expect them to make good on any losses.
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I was under the impression that the pilot is totally responsible for any loss or such.BRK certainly wont get involved if there is problems and thats a fact,plain and simple.
When i joined ,the contract was slightly different. 1. The pay is slightly more on the old contract ( terms and conditions are continuing to erode )
2. There is no mention of recommended accountants in the old contract
I am not with any accountant , iv spoken to one of the companies mentioned and backed away.I sort out my own affairs via the self assessment system.
I was told that the 'new' contract guys have to go with these dodgy accountants or in some cases not accountants but 'financial advisors'.
When i joined ,the contract was slightly different. 1. The pay is slightly more on the old contract ( terms and conditions are continuing to erode )
2. There is no mention of recommended accountants in the old contract
I am not with any accountant , iv spoken to one of the companies mentioned and backed away.I sort out my own affairs via the self assessment system.
I was told that the 'new' contract guys have to go with these dodgy accountants or in some cases not accountants but 'financial advisors'.
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From what I hear the Irish goverment came down hard on Brookfield about loads of contractors not paying tax and them not knowing where they were operating from and so forth.
and so in an over reaction to save them getting anymore hassle from the irish inland revenue they have bought out the use our accountant or dont have a job method, that way they know everyone is taking care of there affairs and they get zero hassle.
the contract is probably illigal and a compleate rip off, but as everyone needs a job people are sadly still signing!
I think the only way to sort it is to have an accountant look at it on your behalf and then spend some effort to claw the money back from the inland revenue as an incorrectly filed tax return, long winded and means the guy brookfield recommend will still get his 3%, but hey, you might get some back.
and so in an over reaction to save them getting anymore hassle from the irish inland revenue they have bought out the use our accountant or dont have a job method, that way they know everyone is taking care of there affairs and they get zero hassle.
the contract is probably illigal and a compleate rip off, but as everyone needs a job people are sadly still signing!
I think the only way to sort it is to have an accountant look at it on your behalf and then spend some effort to claw the money back from the inland revenue as an incorrectly filed tax return, long winded and means the guy brookfield recommend will still get his 3%, but hey, you might get some back.
As this is evidently Brookfield/Ryanair policy and not a secret, perhaps someone would be kind enough to publicly list the Accountants 'recommended' by the contract so a little background research can be done by potential Contractors?
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Ask and you shall receive:
McNamara and Associates
Redstone Corporate Services
CXC
There is a common 'perception' that our Brookies contract compels us to use one of these three accountants. It does not, as that would mean they would then be partly/jointly liable for any erroneous activity on their part. However, the encouragement to follow their request for us to use them is certainly evident, and I for one did not feel the need to test their resolve by going elsewhere.
Wally.
McNamara and Associates
Redstone Corporate Services
CXC
There is a common 'perception' that our Brookies contract compels us to use one of these three accountants. It does not, as that would mean they would then be partly/jointly liable for any erroneous activity on their part. However, the encouragement to follow their request for us to use them is certainly evident, and I for one did not feel the need to test their resolve by going elsewhere.
Wally.
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IR35 wouldn't have to apply given that you are working for an Irish company and the company would be allowed to deduct all sorts of tax allowable expenses. There is no IR35 in Ireland.
The problem seems to be that "BRK 3" are not concerned with reducing a contractors tax liability but only to get them paid.
When you think about it CXC, McNamaras and Redstone all conveniently charge 3%, a blatant bit of price fixing, they also all operate the same questionable multi director format. In this way then all contractor pilots pay the same amount of tax.
I came accross another firm in Ireland who recomend setting up single member irish companies and they also help the pilot claim significantly more tax allowable expenses which means that the pilot pays less tax.
If BRK allowed the contractors to appoint their own tax adviser then nobody would use McNamaras and CXC and BRK would loose out on all of those kick backs and commissions that they are getting now.
The FO I have been helping has worked out that he will be paying about £50 extra per month in accountancy fees that he would do if he could pick his own accountant and also about £650 per month in extra tax. He also reckons he will have to pay a UK accountant to prepare his tax return over here. None of the "Brookfield 3" will do anything other than deal with the Irish tax office. On an FO salary £700 a month is a lot of money to be throwing away.
I think he is nuts but I apreciate the consequences of trying to stand up to BRK.
The problem seems to be that "BRK 3" are not concerned with reducing a contractors tax liability but only to get them paid.
When you think about it CXC, McNamaras and Redstone all conveniently charge 3%, a blatant bit of price fixing, they also all operate the same questionable multi director format. In this way then all contractor pilots pay the same amount of tax.
I came accross another firm in Ireland who recomend setting up single member irish companies and they also help the pilot claim significantly more tax allowable expenses which means that the pilot pays less tax.
If BRK allowed the contractors to appoint their own tax adviser then nobody would use McNamaras and CXC and BRK would loose out on all of those kick backs and commissions that they are getting now.
The FO I have been helping has worked out that he will be paying about £50 extra per month in accountancy fees that he would do if he could pick his own accountant and also about £650 per month in extra tax. He also reckons he will have to pay a UK accountant to prepare his tax return over here. None of the "Brookfield 3" will do anything other than deal with the Irish tax office. On an FO salary £700 a month is a lot of money to be throwing away.
I think he is nuts but I apreciate the consequences of trying to stand up to BRK.
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He will earn around 60k euro on his contract. If he does not take out the pension that the "gangster" accountants in Dublin tried to sell him he will pay almost 15k euro in tax.
The accountants he tried to use in Dublin calculated his tax payable in Ireland as a UK resident would only be 5k. With cross border relief he might not need to pay any more tax in the UK.
There is a provision in the tax treaty between Ireland and the UK to deal with cross border workers. From what I know it was set up to deal with those people living in Northern Ireland who might be working in the South or the other way around and removes the need to file separate tax returns in both countries.
The proposed accountant's fee was less than what the Brookfield 3 were charging and he said the fee included a UK tax return if needed so long as he did not have other UK income.
This is my point in relation to poor tax advice from the Brookfield 3. If cross border relief could reduce a UK pilot's tax bill and the Brookfield 3 do not use the relief available then the pilot is at a loss and if he wanted could try and sue BRK for the money.
By limiting their service to only dealing with a pilots Irish income the accountancy firm has their ass covered in respect of the bad advice but Brookfield would not necessarily be in the clear as they prevented the contractor from appointing a tax agent in Ireland who would have claimed the maxium relief available.
It might be a bit of a stretch but there are enough hard up solicitors in Ireland and here in the UK who would probably take on the work pro bono.
The accountants he tried to use in Dublin calculated his tax payable in Ireland as a UK resident would only be 5k. With cross border relief he might not need to pay any more tax in the UK.
There is a provision in the tax treaty between Ireland and the UK to deal with cross border workers. From what I know it was set up to deal with those people living in Northern Ireland who might be working in the South or the other way around and removes the need to file separate tax returns in both countries.
The proposed accountant's fee was less than what the Brookfield 3 were charging and he said the fee included a UK tax return if needed so long as he did not have other UK income.
This is my point in relation to poor tax advice from the Brookfield 3. If cross border relief could reduce a UK pilot's tax bill and the Brookfield 3 do not use the relief available then the pilot is at a loss and if he wanted could try and sue BRK for the money.
By limiting their service to only dealing with a pilots Irish income the accountancy firm has their ass covered in respect of the bad advice but Brookfield would not necessarily be in the clear as they prevented the contractor from appointing a tax agent in Ireland who would have claimed the maxium relief available.
It might be a bit of a stretch but there are enough hard up solicitors in Ireland and here in the UK who would probably take on the work pro bono.
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Follow up question on the new contracts
have any current F/O's or Captains moved base recently since the new dodgy contracts came into force?
did you have to sign a new deal with the new base or did you keep your current contract and rates of pay and just get rostered from the new base?
also does anyone have the breakdown of new rates of pay including the out of base rate?
any also how does the payday work out if your accountant is robbing half your money? do you still get paid on the 12th or is there a further delay while its worked out what you will pay in tax and NI to the Irish before it hits your account?
have any current F/O's or Captains moved base recently since the new dodgy contracts came into force?
did you have to sign a new deal with the new base or did you keep your current contract and rates of pay and just get rostered from the new base?
also does anyone have the breakdown of new rates of pay including the out of base rate?
any also how does the payday work out if your accountant is robbing half your money? do you still get paid on the 12th or is there a further delay while its worked out what you will pay in tax and NI to the Irish before it hits your account?
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How Much Do They Charge the Airline
How much does Brookfield, and presumably all the other recruitment agencies, charge the airline for contract pilots? Do they realize an override on each month's contract payment to the pilot? Or do they receive a flat fee at the beginning or end of the contract?
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I'm at a complete loss to understand the motivation of all this. From what has been written BRK insist you are not an employee; in fact you must be a registered self-employed person or some other similar status. As such you are independent. Therefore you can employ who ever and what ever method you wish to satisfy the local tax laws of the country where your company is registered. BRK can not force you do differently. You are self-employed and offer your services to BRK if they choose fit to use them. To allow BRK to dictate what you do and when etc, etc, is outside their jurisdiction. However, I do appreciate that rocking the boat might mean they do not require your services very often; but putting illegal shackles on you should be not be in the script, and not too difficult to counter. RYR need pilots, especially cpts.
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From what I know no captain has been forced to use one of the three tax advisers, I presume its because there is a shortage of them. Its the FO's and in particular the most recently recruited that have been forced to use them or loose their job.
There is not much that the FO's can do unless they got some help from a few captains.
There is not much that the FO's can do unless they got some help from a few captains.
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Also at loss regarding this thread... I run my own Limited company, get my money from BRK on the 12th every month, make out an invoice for that amount and return it to BRK. I have my own CPA and tax advisor connected to my company and have never had any issues with that...
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Hasdrubal
Captains are been put on the contract, I jumpseated a few weeks ago and was talking to the DEC and he was on the new deal.
Captains are been put on the contract, I jumpseated a few weeks ago and was talking to the DEC and he was on the new deal.