RYANAIR thoughts
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As far as I can see he was not a 'lowly FO', he was given a temporary contract after CTC. As we are not privvy to the wording of his contract nobody can comment on it.
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Zippy's words:
No mention of temporary, probationary perhaps, but not temporary, and his experience of BALPA support does not in any way validate your statement.
On the evidence in front of us we can comment and deduce that support is not universal.
still hold a letter of intent to that effect from easyJet, offering me - subject to satisfactorily completing the six months - an offer of employment.
the primary function of a union is to protect members' T&Cs
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Barden,
Bit of a cheap shot methinks.
Perhaps the problem here between so many of us, and I include al446 , slim et al in this, is not that we don't agree things should be better (of course they bloody should ! !
otherwise why did you choose this profession ?) but rather , whether now is the time /Ryanair the place/ the current workforce a suitable army . . . to achieve any worthwhile gains.
I have to say, the answer, much as it pains me to admit it, is probably NO.
Globally we are in a crap situation, and when we weren't what did we achieve ? Diddly Squat, in fact a loss of real world earnings of the order of 40% in 10 yrs. . . Yep, bloody impressive, so we are so bloody good at taking care of our T's &Cs that we shoud pick a fight now ?
The time to invite BALPA/IALPA on board was when the market was bouyant and we had every possibility to walk out the door and find another job without having 10 keen bods baying at the door to replace us.
The current terminally defunct campaign was too little too late by BALPA, I.E. us, yep you and me folks, and wisely they pulled the plug on it thereby not screwing themselves (and us ) for the next 3 years.
About 2 years ago IALPA I M P L O R E D BALPA to go for recognition.
The TOSSER in charge at that time said NO , we have to employ a full time rep before we do that.
A valuable opportunity was lost courtesy of that ****, who fortunately, is no longer in charge of BLAPA ( Leo
) so we have ended up fighting with one hand tied behind our back, never a clever idea.
That gentlemen, is the story, so stop bickering, do your job, keep your head down and await the next "realistic" opportunity to change things. And, Slim & Leo, I know you too would benefit from better times being negotiated, so stop attacking the desire to achieve it,your quite correct cautions that now is quite obviously not the time to do so are well understood by those of us with some sense of reality , believe me.
On that note, can we stop the infighting, I think finally we all want the same, to be treated /rewarded a little better, but not at the expense of keeping our jobs by overmilking/p1ss1ng off the cow at the wrong moment.
Well, that is how, one bottle of really excellent Spanish wine costing a mere 2e (don't just live in GRO for the sun . . . . too much at the moment Phew
) I see it, finally I think we overcomplicate the simple, with egotistical and entrenched viewpoints. 
Bit of a cheap shot methinks.
Perhaps the problem here between so many of us, and I include al446 , slim et al in this, is not that we don't agree things should be better (of course they bloody should ! !
otherwise why did you choose this profession ?) but rather , whether now is the time /Ryanair the place/ the current workforce a suitable army . . . to achieve any worthwhile gains.I have to say, the answer, much as it pains me to admit it, is probably NO.
Globally we are in a crap situation, and when we weren't what did we achieve ? Diddly Squat, in fact a loss of real world earnings of the order of 40% in 10 yrs. . . Yep, bloody impressive, so we are so bloody good at taking care of our T's &Cs that we shoud pick a fight now ?
The time to invite BALPA/IALPA on board was when the market was bouyant and we had every possibility to walk out the door and find another job without having 10 keen bods baying at the door to replace us.
The current terminally defunct campaign was too little too late by BALPA, I.E. us, yep you and me folks, and wisely they pulled the plug on it thereby not screwing themselves (and us ) for the next 3 years.
About 2 years ago IALPA I M P L O R E D BALPA to go for recognition.
The TOSSER in charge at that time said NO , we have to employ a full time rep before we do that.
A valuable opportunity was lost courtesy of that ****, who fortunately, is no longer in charge of BLAPA ( Leo
) so we have ended up fighting with one hand tied behind our back, never a clever idea.That gentlemen, is the story, so stop bickering, do your job, keep your head down and await the next "realistic" opportunity to change things. And, Slim & Leo, I know you too would benefit from better times being negotiated, so stop attacking the desire to achieve it,your quite correct cautions that now is quite obviously not the time to do so are well understood by those of us with some sense of reality , believe me.
On that note, can we stop the infighting, I think finally we all want the same, to be treated /rewarded a little better, but not at the expense of keeping our jobs by overmilking/p1ss1ng off the cow at the wrong moment.
Well, that is how, one bottle of really excellent Spanish wine costing a mere 2e (don't just live in GRO for the sun . . . . too much at the moment Phew
) I see it, finally I think we overcomplicate the simple, with egotistical and entrenched viewpoints.
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Many posters on this thread share the same, distinctive writing style. They also seem to share a propensity of hostility towards BALPA in varying degrees of obviousness. The tactic is an old one. The market trader (Del Boy/Leo/Bruce, if he's feeling nasty) leads the charge and the Rodneys (Play Station & Slim Shandy) lurk in the background to mutter things like "he's right you know" and "what a jolly nice fellow" in relation to the Haw Haw figure. Additionally an old duffer no doubt pops up at some point to complain about BALPA's handling of Laker/Air Europe or some other failed airline. This is known as an Uncle Albert. All of this points to an Only Fools and Horses attack on dear old BALPA, which unlike the opposition, choses to play with a straight bat and a stiff upper lip. This isn't necessarily the most attacking option, but is the only honourable path.
One would never expect FR to turn into BA, but it would be wholly appropiate if it blossomed to a Southwest Airlines.
One would never expect FR to turn into BA, but it would be wholly appropiate if it blossomed to a Southwest Airlines.
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Well put Barden, That was a succinct, eloquent and accurate appraisal of any FR thread. Stand by for a torrent of silly remarks and churlish rebuttals. I hope you will interpret them as a verbal lashing out of some unpleasant little creature whose hide you have disturbed and which has found itself exposed.
Kudos.
Kudos.
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The Flight Attendant
A man was sitting in the bar in departures at Manchester airport
waiting for his flight to Italy . A beautiful woman walks in and sits
down at the table next to him. So he decides, because she's got a
uniform on, she's probably an off-duty flight attendant. So he decides
to have a go at picking her up by identifying the airline she flies
for, thereby impressing her greatly.
He leans across to her and says the Delta Airlines motto:
"We love to fly and it shows".
The woman looks at him blankly. He sits back and thinks up another
line. He leans forward again and delivers the Air France motto:
"Winning the hearts of the world".
Again she just stares at him with a slightly puzzled look on her face.
Undeterred, he tries again, this time saying the Malaysian Airlines
motto:
"Going beyond expectations".
The woman looks at him sternly and says:
"What the
do you want ?”
"Ah !" he says, sitting back with a smile on his face........"Ryanair!”
A man was sitting in the bar in departures at Manchester airport
waiting for his flight to Italy . A beautiful woman walks in and sits
down at the table next to him. So he decides, because she's got a
uniform on, she's probably an off-duty flight attendant. So he decides
to have a go at picking her up by identifying the airline she flies
for, thereby impressing her greatly.
He leans across to her and says the Delta Airlines motto:
"We love to fly and it shows".
The woman looks at him blankly. He sits back and thinks up another
line. He leans forward again and delivers the Air France motto:
"Winning the hearts of the world".
Again she just stares at him with a slightly puzzled look on her face.
Undeterred, he tries again, this time saying the Malaysian Airlines
motto:
"Going beyond expectations".
The woman looks at him sternly and says:
"What the
do you want ?”"Ah !" he says, sitting back with a smile on his face........"Ryanair!”
.
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Wingco,
Long time no hear, and I thought we parted friends on a dull grey BVA apron ?
Well, I tried to help the "good guys", but all said & done there weren't enough of them among us & too many self interests involved with the majority.
So, dear Wingco, as discussed, I "retired" from that effort somewhat demoralised by the desire (or rather lack of ) of my fellow cohorts to change their future for the better.
It seems in my absence it has gone even more to a crock of sh1t.
Well, at least now it doesn't really affect me, still find it sad when I reflect on how good, with so little change /expenditure from the other side, it could be.
Anyway, glad to hear you still have an opinion, it's been a while. . . . .
Long time no hear, and I thought we parted friends on a dull grey BVA apron ?
Well, I tried to help the "good guys", but all said & done there weren't enough of them among us & too many self interests involved with the majority.
So, dear Wingco, as discussed, I "retired" from that effort somewhat demoralised by the desire (or rather lack of ) of my fellow cohorts to change their future for the better.
It seems in my absence it has gone even more to a crock of sh1t.
Well, at least now it doesn't really affect me, still find it sad when I reflect on how good, with so little change /expenditure from the other side, it could be.
Anyway, glad to hear you still have an opinion, it's been a while. . . . .
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Hehe! Friends indeed! I'm not one to harbour a grudge after having the opportunity to "deal" with issues head on. Nevertheless if you read through my eyes, some of the things you have written, then you must understand my amusement. I wish you well Gaystation and do appreciate that you mean well regarding our plight......
Fly safe!
Fly safe!
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Captplay
I have to say I am not to impressed by captplay's thoughts. I would believe he is a "below 30 never ever worked anywhere else pilot"
I cannot understand why he picks on RYR at this moment. For God's sake look around you. 737 pilots where do you rather be? Korea, Nigeria or India. Belive me it s much better to be inside RYR looking out than the other way around.
At the moment if you have a job, fly enjoy your job and plan for the future.
If you have no job I wish you all the best in getting one.
Good luck to you all./Teddy
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"Below 30 " ! ! ? I wish 
9 other companies to be taken into consideration too.
I never ever say that taken in the context of being stuck in India /China /Korea / God forbid Lagos that Ryanair is a bad place to be.
No night flights, home every night if you have achieved your desired base, shiny new aircraft.
All I say, if you read carefully, is that it is just a damn shame that the confrontational style adopted by management, coupled with a desire to rob their employees every time something is "renegotiated" take the edge off it a little.
With very little extra expenditure, and merely a change in attitude, it could & should be so much better (easily the best job around if that were the case ). Even the most rabid supporters will normally agree with that.
9 other companies to be taken into consideration too.
I never ever say that taken in the context of being stuck in India /China /Korea / God forbid Lagos
that Ryanair is a bad place to be.No night flights, home every night if you have achieved your desired base, shiny new aircraft.
All I say, if you read carefully, is that it is just a damn shame that the confrontational style adopted by management, coupled with a desire to rob their employees every time something is "renegotiated" take the edge off it a little.
With very little extra expenditure, and merely a change in attitude, it could & should be so much better (easily the best job around if that were the case ). Even the most rabid supporters will normally agree with that.
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Have to say after reading ALL these threads along with my own personal experience ( albeit a short one so far ) there is little wrong with both sides of the present arguement, what is screwing up the industry is the middle/upper management of all these companies who really are shafting staff and seem in MANY cases ( not all ) to be unable to deliver a GOOD product to the public, pay the staff appropriately and return an acceptable profit!!!! Surely a bit of moderation on all sides and some recognition of the hard work supplied by all involved in the industry would see a better/safer environment for all. My thoughts on FR? I used to believe they were sensational, MOL is now pushing the model beyond what is necessary and turning it into a farce. No respect from the public and obviously from a large internal %.
I agree that those who currently have an income and are getting hours should be thankful and I also agree that they should not lose sight of the fact that the job profile is rapidly becoming fairly cr@p! YES some of you have this amazing 5/4 roster ( the BEST in aviation history YAWN!!!) and SOME of you are getting great pay but lets face it, MANY are not and looking at the trends is is certainly not improving. I respect all who work in the airlines, I have worked on the ramp, check-in, boarding and the flight deck and so far all these positions have been poorly paid considering the hard work/hours that are required. A bit more respect and recognition from management in their ivory towers would see an increase in pay and an increase in loyalty which in turn will give more experienced staff and a better product to the public.
In short, quit screwing the staff, deliver a good product, INCREASE air fares to what is a NORMAL price ( not a return to the good old days ) so that the airlines can function and pay staff and lets all get on with it! There MUST be a middle ground out there somewhere which can be aimed for surely????
I agree that those who currently have an income and are getting hours should be thankful and I also agree that they should not lose sight of the fact that the job profile is rapidly becoming fairly cr@p! YES some of you have this amazing 5/4 roster ( the BEST in aviation history YAWN!!!) and SOME of you are getting great pay but lets face it, MANY are not and looking at the trends is is certainly not improving. I respect all who work in the airlines, I have worked on the ramp, check-in, boarding and the flight deck and so far all these positions have been poorly paid considering the hard work/hours that are required. A bit more respect and recognition from management in their ivory towers would see an increase in pay and an increase in loyalty which in turn will give more experienced staff and a better product to the public.
In short, quit screwing the staff, deliver a good product, INCREASE air fares to what is a NORMAL price ( not a return to the good old days ) so that the airlines can function and pay staff and lets all get on with it! There MUST be a middle ground out there somewhere which can be aimed for surely????
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In short, quit screwing the staff, deliver a good product, INCREASE air fares to what is a NORMAL price ( not a return to the good old days ) so that the airlines can function and pay staff and lets all get on with it!
The International Air Transport Association (IATA) announced international scheduled traffic results for June showing passenger demand declining 7.2% compared to the same month in the previous year while freight demand was down 16.5%. International passenger load factors stood at 75.3%, down from 77.6% recorded in June 2008.
The 7.2% drop in international passenger demand was a slight improvement on the 9.3% fall in May. The capacity adjustment of -4.3% did not keep pace with the fall in demand leaving average fares and yields under significant pressure. As a result, June revenue on international markets fell by a shocking 25-30%.
The 7.2% drop in international passenger demand was a slight improvement on the 9.3% fall in May. The capacity adjustment of -4.3% did not keep pace with the fall in demand leaving average fares and yields under significant pressure. As a result, June revenue on international markets fell by a shocking 25-30%.
A better solution is to collectively look at ways of reducing costs, increasing productivity and minimising waste, be that waste lost bags, discarded meals, excess fuel carriage, hammering the brakes etc.
The issue at the moment is not "making a profit" it is "not making a loss": we have seen several names disappear in the last 18 months and there will be more to come. The once great BA is in dire straits and has no legacy right to survival and BALPA will not and cannot provide a barrier or protection against market forces.
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Slim,
Mine was not a thought for the immediate, I have seen my previous employer fill ac all summer yet make all profit! Right now its a fight to keep trading I understand that, BUT...I still maintain that the trend ( PRE - Recession) of charging all and as a result HAVING to reduce T&C's, pax service etc etc etc is cr@p for both sides of the industry. It is RIDICULOUS to pay so little to travel to another country as it was RIDICULOUS to pay on average £350 to fly to Paris in the late 70's early 80's.....hence my comment on middle ground as something to be aimed for in the future. Unfortunately, the public EXPECTS to fly for nothing these days, how does that help anyone?? And I AM also the public and have found myself complaining because my return fare to Paris was OMG €50 odd!!!1Risiculous expectations. See my point?
PS and yes all waste savings is ALSO something to aim for in all cases as long as it simply doesnt make the board and shareholders richer whilst further operational costs ( ie salaries ) are further reduced. I am not disagreeing with you, this is not a pro/con BALPA observation just a general view on the industry as a whole, your job, my next job etc etc
Mine was not a thought for the immediate, I have seen my previous employer fill ac all summer yet make
all profit! Right now its a fight to keep trading I understand that, BUT...I still maintain that the trend ( PRE - Recession) of charging all and as a result HAVING to reduce T&C's, pax service etc etc etc is cr@p for both sides of the industry. It is RIDICULOUS to pay so little to travel to another country as it was RIDICULOUS to pay on average £350 to fly to Paris in the late 70's early 80's.....hence my comment on middle ground as something to be aimed for in the future. Unfortunately, the public EXPECTS to fly for nothing these days, how does that help anyone?? And I AM also the public and have found myself complaining because my return fare to Paris was OMG €50 odd!!!1Risiculous expectations. See my point?PS and yes all waste savings is ALSO something to aim for in all cases as long as it simply doesnt make the board and shareholders richer whilst further operational costs ( ie salaries ) are further reduced. I am not disagreeing with you, this is not a pro/con BALPA observation just a general view on the industry as a whole, your job, my next job etc etc
