Lo Co? will it fail?
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NCC?? I think you may have quite misunderstood my point!
Low cost / no cost model is not my vision, I think its a disaster which only barely functions because personel is getting screwed beyond recognition! Yes we love to fly, but bills need to be paid! the point of this thread was "should fares go up, quit pretending its cheap, and we can all earn a living again"!
Low cost / no cost model is not my vision, I think its a disaster which only barely functions because personel is getting screwed beyond recognition! Yes we love to fly, but bills need to be paid! the point of this thread was "should fares go up, quit pretending its cheap, and we can all earn a living again"!
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Originally Posted by low n' slow
paying for jo-schmo's ticket
I would also say that joe-bloggs the ground staff employee is being shafted at every turn. I was astounded to read in another part of PPRuNe how low the salaries and how complete the disregard for quality of life outside of hellish shift patterns and lay-offs have become at one or two lo-co hubs.
What people seem to forget is history just repeats itself......Stagecoach drivers hated the introduction of the train and train companies hated the introduction of the Automobile who hated the introduction of the Airplane.
Industries change over time and either you hold on to what you have or change with it.....how big is the UK shipbuilding industry or the steel industry ?
It has however a huge impact on the people there and consequences and it would be foolish to ignore it.
Look at the way the development of IT has effectively wiped out travel agents and the next stage is the check in desk.
Going forward in the future its not inconcievable that Planes in the future no longer have Pilots onboard.
Laughable at this point in time BUT you program in every concievable eventuality and it is possible via computer.
Alternatively you have a Pilot or Pilots based in a centre who fly the plane and rely on onboard sensors to tell and show what is happening.
Not so laughable when you consider that currently Military personnel in Nevada are flying drone attacking people and equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan.
LCC's will just develop into something else over time but the Dinosaurs within Industrys just die, its reality of competition and it will occur again and again.
Industries change over time and either you hold on to what you have or change with it.....how big is the UK shipbuilding industry or the steel industry ?
It has however a huge impact on the people there and consequences and it would be foolish to ignore it.
Look at the way the development of IT has effectively wiped out travel agents and the next stage is the check in desk.
Going forward in the future its not inconcievable that Planes in the future no longer have Pilots onboard.
Laughable at this point in time BUT you program in every concievable eventuality and it is possible via computer.
Alternatively you have a Pilot or Pilots based in a centre who fly the plane and rely on onboard sensors to tell and show what is happening.
Not so laughable when you consider that currently Military personnel in Nevada are flying drone attacking people and equipment in Iraq and Afghanistan.
LCC's will just develop into something else over time but the Dinosaurs within Industrys just die, its reality of competition and it will occur again and again.
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Racedo
What the military are doing with drones is somewhat diffrent from what the public will accept giving that we all know a lot more about computers these days, unmand flight will grow of course and may even reach the cargo market in years to come but i doubt it will come into the pax market in your or or my life time.
Just think though if it did, an extra row of seats in the front, what could MOL charge for a forward view!! and it would get around that problem of pilots who's grasp of English is very basic
What the military are doing with drones is somewhat diffrent from what the public will accept giving that we all know a lot more about computers these days, unmand flight will grow of course and may even reach the cargo market in years to come but i doubt it will come into the pax market in your or or my life time.
Just think though if it did, an extra row of seats in the front, what could MOL charge for a forward view!! and it would get around that problem of pilots who's grasp of English is very basic
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And NO cabin crew, just a monitor with someone giving instruction, some vending machines at the back and the emergency/safety instruction cards ( optional) can be bought from another vending machine! ahhh the future is bright! 
What the military are doing with drones is somewhat diffrent from what the public will accept giving that we all know a lot more about computers these days, unmand flight will grow of course and may even reach the cargo market in years to come but i doubt it will come into the pax market in your or or my life time.
Biggest loss for a Military jet is the loss of a Crew as planes are replaceable, crew take a bit longer.
You could of course always keep a Pilot onboard who can take over in Emergencies if communications go down but ultimately it will happen.
As to the Cargo bit well they has been done for quite a few years in sending supplies up to space stations.
Of course if they develop a commercial jet with the capability to take off like a Harrier then Airports would become very small within 30 years.
And NO cabin crew, just a monitor with someone giving instruction, some vending machines at the back and the emergency/safety instruction cards ( optional) can be bought from another vending machine! ahhh the future is bright!
Get in the Pod in the terminal and then just pushed into plane where front and back open and pods get pushed into terminal.
Who wants to look out from a tiny at cloud when you can see all the TV stuff you want or a set of Cameras that show all the views from the plane.
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A certain airline (lo-co) advertised the final fare price as the head line rate on the internet recently and it was not pretty, a lose of potential trade to the tune of half a million.
It seems Jo public like the idea of being suckered in with a low headline rate and then pile on the extra charges.
It seems Jo public like the idea of being suckered in with a low headline rate and then pile on the extra charges.
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Isn't the LCC concept reaching it's conclusion already?
The original idea was that by cutting out the frills which the big boys provided they could undercut their fares. Well just have a look at how much your .01p flight now costs including all the extras, and don't forget the cost of getting from the middle of nowhere to where you actually want to get to.
I recently priced 2 journeys in August and they were both cheaper by a long was by avoiding the so called LCCarriers. The other problem with their business model is they rely on another sucker being born every minute rather than repeat business from satisfied customers, just look at their lack of customer services when things go wrong, and there are only so many new mugs to be had.
Just have a look at Skytrax or other sites and see what happens when things go wrong which they are bound to do from time to time.
They are no longer all that cheap and that was their unique selling point.
The original idea was that by cutting out the frills which the big boys provided they could undercut their fares. Well just have a look at how much your .01p flight now costs including all the extras, and don't forget the cost of getting from the middle of nowhere to where you actually want to get to.
I recently priced 2 journeys in August and they were both cheaper by a long was by avoiding the so called LCCarriers. The other problem with their business model is they rely on another sucker being born every minute rather than repeat business from satisfied customers, just look at their lack of customer services when things go wrong, and there are only so many new mugs to be had.
Just have a look at Skytrax or other sites and see what happens when things go wrong which they are bound to do from time to time.
They are no longer all that cheap and that was their unique selling point.
The LCC model has changed since its introduction and will continue to do so as lets face it charging for bags, removing check in desk etc would have been laughed at about 5 years ago.
Its still possible to go cheaply but you have to work within the rules they impose.
Its still possible to go cheaply but you have to work within the rules they impose.
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They are no longer all that cheap and that was their unique selling point.
However, I think what they do have is the perception of cheapness - and that is what counts most.
Ever see Tesco own brand cheapo beans and the like? All the value lines look God awful but have you ever wondered why they don't lift a finger to spruce up the jailbird packaging?
It's so the punter doesn't feel too attracted to it. If you're short of cash you'll buy value. But if you're in two minds you might opt for the standard line, or even the premium branded line. The packaging on the low cost food is there to protect the regular products and divert those who could stretch to something more expensive away from something in reality only slightly inferior in quality but far less in price.
Likewise but in a sort of mirror image, by banging the lo-co drum, being gaudy and brash - Easy and Ryan come to mind for me here at least - the budget airlines' packaging diverts the cost-conscious consumer to their product. We may not buy, and especially so when we realise we can have the premium airline for the same or just a touch more, but we are fingering (ahem) the product, and that's half the battle won.
Likewise but in a sort of mirror image, by banging the lo-co drum, being gaudy and brash - Easy and Ryan come to mind for me here at least - the budget airlines' packaging diverts the cost-conscious consumer to their product. We may not buy, and especially so when we realise we can have the premium airline for the same or just a touch more, but we are fingering (ahem) the product, and that's half the battle won.
I have come across too many people over last 5 years who tell you of the fact that they were able to visit Cousin X.s wedding or the friend they knew but in the old days could never have afforded the opportunity to visit.
People forget the small business person who would never have looked for business opportunities abroad as the £500 BA fare to Rome plus hiring the car to visit a prospective customer really eats into any cash they have. Now they do a Ryanair or Easyjet get change from £100 and can afford 5 visits as they turn a prospective customer into a real one. Sales people generally say 4-5 visits or contact points required to sign up a customer, sometimes less sometimes more.
In many ways the LCC model has liberated many areas of Europe from the shackles of Capital city funding where all the cash was spent on projects and airports in teh Capital or big cities.
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People forget the small business person who would never have looked for business opportunities abroad as the £500 BA fare to Rome plus hiring the car to visit a prospective customer really eats into any cash they have. Now they do a Ryanair or Easyjet get change from £100
Taking at random out on 1 July back on 2 July the Cheapest Ba and Easy fares are:-
BA £130.60 and Easy £127.74 and thats without a cup of coffee, the big boys have moved on as well.
Taking at random out on 1 July back on 2 July the Cheapest Ba and Easy fares are:-
BA £130.60 and Easy £127.74 and thats without a cup of coffee, the big boys have moved on as well.
BA £130.60 and Easy £127.74 and thats without a cup of coffee, the big boys have moved on as well.
The Legacy carriers only moved because they were forced to, some countries use other means to hold on to their carriers i.e Air France and slot protection at CDG and Orly, Alitalia as was with Govt backing, BA with LHR slots.
The seemingly Low Cost model is in my opinion not sustainable!
However it's cheap compared to normal restaurants and readily available.
Low cost is not always cheaper, SHOP AROUND, compare full service fares and any promotions they may be having. READ the terms and conditions for the low cost airline. DECIDE for yourself if any saving is worth having.
I recently had two trips flying low cost. For marginally more than a five hour coach trip I had a 55 minute flight.
However I decided against a longer journey where the low cost fare was $50 more than full service before adding baggage charges.
It pays to do your homework.
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Love the post N0. 19 Quote:-
tic tac tic tac....boum!!! Unquote.
Originated in the middle east!! A lot of airlines might be in better shape if it weren't for........
tic tac tic tac....boum!!! Unquote.
Originated in the middle east!! A lot of airlines might be in better shape if it weren't for........
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Easyjet with carry 47 Million people in 2009, Ryanair will carry 65 Million, BA will carry 32 Million......just who are the big boys ?
The Legacy carriers only moved because they were forced to, some countries use other means to hold on to their carriers i.e Air France and slot protection at CDG and Orly, Alitalia as was with Govt backing, BA with LHR slots.
The Legacy carriers only moved because they were forced to, some countries use other means to hold on to their carriers i.e Air France and slot protection at CDG and Orly, Alitalia as was with Govt backing, BA with LHR slots.
Rather, it is on point-to-point services that LCC really compete with traditional airlines. This helps bring fares down, which can only benefit the customer.
Ryanair's business model is based on local authorities/employees/trainees/passengers subsidising the cheap fares, and on a massive increase in capacity to boost passenger numbers. I fear overcapacity will soon be significant enough for the business to become unsustainable. Especially as the worst of the recession will be upon us during the summer. I really think LCC's strenghth is overestimated by a few orders of magnitude.
And by the way there is no so-called slot protection at CDG, only at ORY
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Lo co works well in times of expansion
Clever aircraft financing, airport deals, staff paid peanuts, trainees paying to fly etc etc
With the day to day economic situation we see now, travel becomes a discretionary luxury for many,and not an option at all for those unlucky to have lost jobs.
The idea that one can fly from one end of Europe or beyond for less than the price of a train ticket/petrol from London to Manchester, is in the long term unsustainable, no matter how many rip off charges /sandwiches can be tacked on to the "£1" fare
Clever aircraft financing, airport deals, staff paid peanuts, trainees paying to fly etc etc
With the day to day economic situation we see now, travel becomes a discretionary luxury for many,and not an option at all for those unlucky to have lost jobs.
The idea that one can fly from one end of Europe or beyond for less than the price of a train ticket/petrol from London to Manchester, is in the long term unsustainable, no matter how many rip off charges /sandwiches can be tacked on to the "£1" fare
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Quite correct. To their credit [and it is the only one I am prepared to cede to them] I would suggest that Easy and Ryanair have pulled off the greatest marketing coup in modern times by persuading so many people to accept such mediocrity on such a massive scale.