Pay for jobs, new (?) twist.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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I did not say 'we', I said 'you'.
Hiding in a group is simply another way of transfering individual responsibilty to others. Each individual is responsible for their own actions and the consequences of them.
If you choose to buy a type rating and/or line training, then you are also responsible for the consequences thereof. You and nobody else.
Once people accept that personal responsibilty goes a bit further than just ensuring that 'I'm all right Jack', things might start to change.
Hiding in a group is simply another way of transfering individual responsibilty to others. Each individual is responsible for their own actions and the consequences of them.
If you choose to buy a type rating and/or line training, then you are also responsible for the consequences thereof. You and nobody else.
Once people accept that personal responsibilty goes a bit further than just ensuring that 'I'm all right Jack', things might start to change.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Glorious nation of Kazakhstan.....great success!!!
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Folks, we live in an age of instant gratification (a self explanatory term) and Selfish Capitalism (the actions of a very small group of individuals who will happily destroy the lives of a large number people in pursuit of ever increasing profit). This applies to all industries, but I will concentrate on the airline industry.
The only way to stop this, is with collective action (i.e. via unions). As I have experienced, the current unions are incapable of looking after the long term interests of pilots. This is because all they really are, is a specialised financial services company,which sells legal protection cover for pilots. There is no incentive for them to actually protect the pilot workforce as a whole.
I believe that it is time start a union (geez, I never thought I would say this), that has both pilots, and the industries, long term health as it's prime objective. It will NOT provide legal protection (a separate company can provide this). It WILL negotiate pay and T's and C's and any issues relating to the long and short term health of the pilots and the industry(this will include training/recruitment issues). It will be strong enough to call for action when it is needed, and not back down until the correct solution has been found. A membership subscription of £10-00 per month would be payable to cover administration costs. It will be internet based for quick delivery of information and casting of electronic votes.
A lot of companies are being run accountants, and by their nature they cannot look beyond annual results because, let get real about it, their jobs are on the line if they do not produce the results. Simple really. They do not think in terms of "short term pain for long term gain". Selfish Capitalists with a dash of instant gratification thrown in... Some balance is needed.
The only questions I have are:
1) How do I start this union?
2) How does does one get members?
The only way to stop this, is with collective action (i.e. via unions). As I have experienced, the current unions are incapable of looking after the long term interests of pilots. This is because all they really are, is a specialised financial services company,which sells legal protection cover for pilots. There is no incentive for them to actually protect the pilot workforce as a whole.
I believe that it is time start a union (geez, I never thought I would say this), that has both pilots, and the industries, long term health as it's prime objective. It will NOT provide legal protection (a separate company can provide this). It WILL negotiate pay and T's and C's and any issues relating to the long and short term health of the pilots and the industry(this will include training/recruitment issues). It will be strong enough to call for action when it is needed, and not back down until the correct solution has been found. A membership subscription of £10-00 per month would be payable to cover administration costs. It will be internet based for quick delivery of information and casting of electronic votes.
A lot of companies are being run accountants, and by their nature they cannot look beyond annual results because, let get real about it, their jobs are on the line if they do not produce the results. Simple really. They do not think in terms of "short term pain for long term gain". Selfish Capitalists with a dash of instant gratification thrown in... Some balance is needed.
The only questions I have are:
1) How do I start this union?
2) How does does one get members?
Last edited by bluelearjetdriver; 26th Jan 2009 at 23:36. Reason: I added some stuff
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sydney,Australia
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...a profession...
well ,as far as recieving financial remuneration for our 'flight' toil, the job may still be refered to as 'that'... Yet, Ive refered to it for years now(20+ on 72's & 73's)as "a white nigger workin in a black man's world" where the black man= CEO+Exec management. We can, though, escape their relentless empire(duck shoving)building-held up with THEIR strings&mirrors-and just do what WE ALL do best ,and that's fly the wing. Flying with low timers is an opportunity to influence in our own diplomatic way this art of conservation of energy,if only for our 'professional' satisfaction. As computer controlled automation has become the norm{738 RNP(0.1)RNAV}rather than the exception, I totally agree with previous posts re pilot obselesence. The day is not far off(less than 10yrs is my guess)when it will be an Air Safety Reportable Item whenever VNAV PATH/SPD is disengauged. The spepo's havent been flying all those UAVs around Arabia(see country as a collective prior to the Balfoure Declaration)just for the fun of straifing a few Bedous, these missions are all being logged and 'route redundancies' proven. There may still be a 'window' for a young bloke starting out today, but hell if Id let my two sons play this game. It may have 25 more years to playout, perhaps...
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I questioned BALPA, via my reps, for quite a few years as to why we had pilots negotiating my T & Cs against professional and experienced negotiators representing the company... The response was cold, at best. This is beyond my understanding and people can say whatever they want, but there is always the problem and/or potential of reps (pilots) pushing and favoring deals that would benefit themselves rather then the collective.
I think the way to go is to use the existing framework and infrastructure of BALPA, contracting external negotiators representing us. The reasons for this approach are many. If they under perform we have the option to use another firm which gives an incentive for them to perform as we would probably be one of their largest costumers. With BALPAs framework and existing agreements with most companies we would not need to go through the hoops of getting recognized by the companies as representatives for the pilot force etc etc. Personally, I would be happy to pay double of what I am paying today if I knew that there was not a pilot, who most of the time fly a full schedule ei 870-something hrs a year, negotiating my T & Cs and directly influencing me and my family's lives.
The problem is that BALPA is a giant dinosaur that is operating the way it is and there seems to be very little will for changes.....
Maybe it's time to start a new thread on this topic?
Standing by for incoming.
CP
I think the way to go is to use the existing framework and infrastructure of BALPA, contracting external negotiators representing us. The reasons for this approach are many. If they under perform we have the option to use another firm which gives an incentive for them to perform as we would probably be one of their largest costumers. With BALPAs framework and existing agreements with most companies we would not need to go through the hoops of getting recognized by the companies as representatives for the pilot force etc etc. Personally, I would be happy to pay double of what I am paying today if I knew that there was not a pilot, who most of the time fly a full schedule ei 870-something hrs a year, negotiating my T & Cs and directly influencing me and my family's lives.
The problem is that BALPA is a giant dinosaur that is operating the way it is and there seems to be very little will for changes.....
Maybe it's time to start a new thread on this topic?
Standing by for incoming.
CP
Last edited by CaptainProp; 27th Jan 2009 at 06:24.
Join Date: Feb 2001
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as sad as these programmes are, this one is not a scam. - A scam would have to involve a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation, and this is not the case.
Other posters seem to confirm that they get exactly what the contract says and it is a fact that that airline needs a few more FOs for the summer.
Likely, if nothing unforeseen happens, the aircraft will not be parked over the winter, thus needing crews (ask them where they would be for winter and they will tell you. And yes, the winter base is not a nice country to work in, but then they pay a lot better for that too...).
While this programme is just under 9k, it is certainly possible to add 26k for living expenses, flights, etc during its duration to make up 30k. However, even if I went for business class tickets and the Hilton all the way, I would be hard pushed.
scam = a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
fraud = crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them
Other posters seem to confirm that they get exactly what the contract says and it is a fact that that airline needs a few more FOs for the summer.
Likely, if nothing unforeseen happens, the aircraft will not be parked over the winter, thus needing crews (ask them where they would be for winter and they will tell you. And yes, the winter base is not a nice country to work in, but then they pay a lot better for that too...).
While this programme is just under 9k, it is certainly possible to add 26k for living expenses, flights, etc during its duration to make up 30k. However, even if I went for business class tickets and the Hilton all the way, I would be hard pushed.
scam = a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation
fraud = crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them
