easyJet to BA: how is it?
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easyJet to BA: how is it?
Hi chaps/chapesses, has anybody here made the jump either from eJ to BA or BA to eJ, and how have they found the change in lifestyle? Would be interested to hear a comparative view of the two SH lifestyles, obviously tours and nightstops are not the norm in eJ but other than that?... *curious*
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Glad you made this thread African Dude 
- if I slip through the BA selection net next month I'll have a decision to make and it's not very clear cut at the moment.
I'd be most interested to hear from any ex-ezJetters who've gone BA. Any regrets? Or none at all? Financially, for me, its much of a muchness (over a long-term view), though perhaps a tad better at BA - so I suppose a lot of it comes down to whether you enjoy the tours/nightstops and the people you work with (a big plus at EZ I think).
What's the general vibe at work like? I have a concern that, as a generalisation, BA crews will be bit old, stuffy and set in their ways having potentially been in the same company for 30 years (I suppose I'm talking about Captains here!). Not so at EZ, I find. But maybe I'm way off the mark.
One appeal of BA is actually getting to see a bit of the cities I'll fly to. Do you enjoy the tours, are crews usually sociable? Or is the reality more likely to be being stuck with a grumpy old Captain and the CC escaping asap, and wishing you were at home. Does the novelty wear off quickly?
Another major appeal of course is the possibility of changing fleets and route structures throughout the career.
So, any insightful comments from those who've gone to BA from EZ would be most welcome.
- if I slip through the BA selection net next month I'll have a decision to make and it's not very clear cut at the moment. I'd be most interested to hear from any ex-ezJetters who've gone BA. Any regrets? Or none at all? Financially, for me, its much of a muchness (over a long-term view), though perhaps a tad better at BA - so I suppose a lot of it comes down to whether you enjoy the tours/nightstops and the people you work with (a big plus at EZ I think).
What's the general vibe at work like? I have a concern that, as a generalisation, BA crews will be bit old, stuffy and set in their ways having potentially been in the same company for 30 years (I suppose I'm talking about Captains here!). Not so at EZ, I find. But maybe I'm way off the mark.
One appeal of BA is actually getting to see a bit of the cities I'll fly to. Do you enjoy the tours, are crews usually sociable? Or is the reality more likely to be being stuck with a grumpy old Captain and the CC escaping asap, and wishing you were at home. Does the novelty wear off quickly?
Another major appeal of course is the possibility of changing fleets and route structures throughout the career.
So, any insightful comments from those who've gone to BA from EZ would be most welcome.
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There's not that many 30+ years Captains anymore, not that length of service is a measure of their character any more than the colour of their hair. Anyway, you need the old codgers to tell you where the cheap beer and food is.
Tours are good, Captains are generally good, cabin crew are generally best forgotten about, you'll rarely see them off the aircraft no matter how nice you are to them. There are plenty of ex easy chaps in BA, I'm sure one will be along shortly to give you a comparison but by and large we don't seem to hear too many complaints so it can't be that bad!
Tours are good, Captains are generally good, cabin crew are generally best forgotten about, you'll rarely see them off the aircraft no matter how nice you are to them. There are plenty of ex easy chaps in BA, I'm sure one will be along shortly to give you a comparison but by and large we don't seem to hear too many complaints so it can't be that bad!
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I joined easyJet over 4 years ago from a BA franchise. More interestingly, I joined with a top quality guy in his mid-thirties who had previously been a Captain at Midland on the A320 then went to BA for a few years - 757/767 followed by an FO slot on the A320. We were both taken on as direct entry captains and have really enjoyed our time at easyJet. I speak to him regularly and, quite surprisingly frankly, he is still glad he made the move. He just got worn out with the culture of negativity as he described it. He felt like a small cog in an enormous machine and rarely flew with the same skipper twice. Also, he is a family man and was away from home too much - even on short haul. There is no doubt that he made a big loss on the pension as we give a dismal 7% into the kitty whereas he was on the final salary scheme at BA (long gone now I gather!). He now works 50% and has a great life doing other work in his 2 weeks per month off.
We also have several ex-longhaul 747/777 Captains with BA who hit 55 under the old rules and came here. To a man they all enjoy it, but are nonetheless blessed with some serious pensions that just about exceed their salaries at easyJet - nice work if you can get it! There are very few pilots at easyJet who do not enjoy their job, and that really does say something. Could you do it for 35 years? Well, that is another question altogether!
The huge advantages of easyJet are the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern and the fact you hardly ever go away from home. Offsetting that, you would be a very brave person indeed to be a 24 year-old Airbus pilot and turn down a job offer from BA. In all honesty, if it was my son and he was that age, I could not, hand on heart, tell him to stay at easyJet when a full career, and all the potential variety that could offer, awaits at BA. Just a personal view - but there it is!
We also have several ex-longhaul 747/777 Captains with BA who hit 55 under the old rules and came here. To a man they all enjoy it, but are nonetheless blessed with some serious pensions that just about exceed their salaries at easyJet - nice work if you can get it! There are very few pilots at easyJet who do not enjoy their job, and that really does say something. Could you do it for 35 years? Well, that is another question altogether!
The huge advantages of easyJet are the 5/3/5/4 roster pattern and the fact you hardly ever go away from home. Offsetting that, you would be a very brave person indeed to be a 24 year-old Airbus pilot and turn down a job offer from BA. In all honesty, if it was my son and he was that age, I could not, hand on heart, tell him to stay at easyJet when a full career, and all the potential variety that could offer, awaits at BA. Just a personal view - but there it is!
Norman
Thanks for another well informed posting.
I'm interested in your comment about whether it is a sustainable lifestyle over 35 years.
When do you reckon burnout will occur?
Thanks for another well informed posting.
I'm interested in your comment about whether it is a sustainable lifestyle over 35 years.
When do you reckon burnout will occur?
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The average shelf life of a commuting easyJet pilot seems to be around 5 to 7 years. Bit longer if working from base.
There are however a couple of big challenges ahead. New bases without any local crew thus a lot more nightstopping, long positioning days and the possible closure of the smaller bases. Don't want to think about a random roster.
There are however a couple of big challenges ahead. New bases without any local crew thus a lot more nightstopping, long positioning days and the possible closure of the smaller bases. Don't want to think about a random roster.
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I'd like to echo what NSF has said. I am an ex-BA captain who had to leave under the old retirement age rule (six months too old to stay). I've been with EZY just over two years and I enjoy it. No whinging culture, no back-biting, no inter-department jealousies, just folks coming in to do their jobs in as friendly and as co-operative a manner as they can. The SOPs are less prescriptive, no part of manual flyng is discouraged or banned and there is plenty scope for concepts such as common sense, airmanship and initiative. I had more personal satisfaction in my first 17 months with EZY than I did in 17 years in BA. It helps, of course, that the company is still expanding and creating opportunities. In sum, I work harder than I did in BA, I'm paid less but I enjoy it more, and - this is the crucial bit - I am treated much more like a captain than I ever was in BA.
Sadly, I don't have a megapension like some of my erstwhile colleagues to whom NSF refers (only 17 years, you see, preceded by 17 years in the RAF) so I'm still full-time and will be for the foreseeable future.
I do miss the nightstops in 5-star city-centre hotels, though!
Sadly, I don't have a megapension like some of my erstwhile colleagues to whom NSF refers (only 17 years, you see, preceded by 17 years in the RAF) so I'm still full-time and will be for the foreseeable future.
I do miss the nightstops in 5-star city-centre hotels, though!
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I can't speak as someone who joined from EZ, but I just want to set the record straight on one thing. There are a lot of assumptions and rumours about BA Captains being miserable old farts. Can I just say that in general those days are gone (with a few exceptions). Most skippers, on short haul certainly and more so on long haul, are a great bunch to fly with and will certainly show the sights to any new joiners. The atmosphere on the flight deck is generally very relaxed but proffesional.
By the way, I'm not a skipper, so I'm not trying to big myself up!!
By the way, I'm not a skipper, so I'm not trying to big myself up!!
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Some very insightful thoughts here. Thanks everyone, though I have to say that you're not making my potential decision any easier!
I can certainly appreciate the benefit of an experienced captain downroute. My recently retired Dad certainly showed me the sights in BKK and HKG. (And then I decided I wanted to be an airline pilot
)
Keep 'em coming.
(By the way NSF - I recently had the pleasure of flying with someone matching the description of the chap in your first paragraph. It was certainly interesting to get his take on the matter.)
I can certainly appreciate the benefit of an experienced captain downroute. My recently retired Dad certainly showed me the sights in BKK and HKG. (And then I decided I wanted to be an airline pilot
)Keep 'em coming.
(By the way NSF - I recently had the pleasure of flying with someone matching the description of the chap in your first paragraph. It was certainly interesting to get his take on the matter.)
ChocksAwayUK
Very old BA Capt here ( 20,000hrs+ in 30 years
)
The big difference you will notice is size - 3300 pilots out of nearly 50,000 employees. On my own fleet (747) we have 800 pilots - that's more than some international flag carriers have in their whole airline ! The result is that you would come across all possible types in a career here. But bear this in mind - there is no such thing as a "typical" Nigel anymore. A huge proportion of BA pilots have been recruited as DEPs - thus they are ex BMI,Ryanair, TCX etc etc plus lot's from the military and not forgetting a sizeable overseas contingent from Europe and beyond.
Total number of ex Hamble BEA/BOAC cadets? Less than 200.
Of those - how many stuffy old farts? A couple I must admit
Chances of you ever flying with one? Zero
A huge question for you is how long can you keep flying your EZ Airbus/737 on SH European routes. 5 years? 10 years? 35 years?
In BA you would have the chance to fly the same types but with tours and later in your career swap to longhaul and (if you didn't like it) change back to SH.
The downside is seniority - joining now only makes sense if you are young and are prepared to bide your time waiting for people like me to "drop" - and I've got potentially 10 years left
Last point is important. Every pilot I've spoken to says the same thing. The reality inside BA is nothing like the picture painted by outsiders.........
Very old BA Capt here ( 20,000hrs+ in 30 years
)The big difference you will notice is size - 3300 pilots out of nearly 50,000 employees. On my own fleet (747) we have 800 pilots - that's more than some international flag carriers have in their whole airline ! The result is that you would come across all possible types in a career here. But bear this in mind - there is no such thing as a "typical" Nigel anymore. A huge proportion of BA pilots have been recruited as DEPs - thus they are ex BMI,Ryanair, TCX etc etc plus lot's from the military and not forgetting a sizeable overseas contingent from Europe and beyond.
Total number of ex Hamble BEA/BOAC cadets? Less than 200.
Of those - how many stuffy old farts? A couple I must admit
Chances of you ever flying with one? Zero
A huge question for you is how long can you keep flying your EZ Airbus/737 on SH European routes. 5 years? 10 years? 35 years?
In BA you would have the chance to fly the same types but with tours and later in your career swap to longhaul and (if you didn't like it) change back to SH.
The downside is seniority - joining now only makes sense if you are young and are prepared to bide your time waiting for people like me to "drop" - and I've got potentially 10 years left
Last point is important. Every pilot I've spoken to says the same thing. The reality inside BA is nothing like the picture painted by outsiders.........
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There are some top guys from BA here infinitely better qualified to speak on life there than I am. I can only speak about easyJet, and I really enjoy it. My doubt would be the work rate - it would be very hard to keep this up day after day for 35 or more years. I do training which adds a bit of spice and entertainment to the job but without that it could become pretty relentless.
My personal make-up is that I go to work every day determined to have a good day out, and I invariably do. I am not particularly bothered by late roster changes and I don't get too phased when I run an hour or so late - on that basis I am probably an ideal candidate to work for easyJet! Day-to-day, I thoroughly enjoy what I do. My observation of easyJet over the last few years is that, when I first came here, about 15% of captains in particular really hated the company. That permeated right throught the ranks and a culture of negativity developed. We then won a few significant victories in terms of our general working life, due to a combination of BALPA's efforts and a sensible management approach. Whether that sensible management approach will continue is open to question, but that is another story! Slowly but surely a new culture has developed where people just enjoy working here, and that has again permeated through the ranks. So whether you want to work here the rest of your life or not, the overwhelming majority of pilots like being here - that makes for a great working environment.
Most young folk are still going to go off and work for BA - but they will look back very fondly at a great time they had here.
My personal make-up is that I go to work every day determined to have a good day out, and I invariably do. I am not particularly bothered by late roster changes and I don't get too phased when I run an hour or so late - on that basis I am probably an ideal candidate to work for easyJet! Day-to-day, I thoroughly enjoy what I do. My observation of easyJet over the last few years is that, when I first came here, about 15% of captains in particular really hated the company. That permeated right throught the ranks and a culture of negativity developed. We then won a few significant victories in terms of our general working life, due to a combination of BALPA's efforts and a sensible management approach. Whether that sensible management approach will continue is open to question, but that is another story! Slowly but surely a new culture has developed where people just enjoy working here, and that has again permeated through the ranks. So whether you want to work here the rest of your life or not, the overwhelming majority of pilots like being here - that makes for a great working environment.
Most young folk are still going to go off and work for BA - but they will look back very fondly at a great time they had here.
Meaning worse than we outsiders presume?
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On my intake to BA there were 3 who were from easyjet. All really top guys, very personable and positive people. I've not seen much of them since we joined (they do work hard on the 'bus) but from what I have heard from them they seem reasonably happy with their lot at BA.
Positives seem to be that pay is apparantly a bit better, though not hugely so I believe. The guys I joined with are all young, mostly single, and seem to quite like getting to nightstop in Europe. In time to come there's also obviously the option to do long haul, bid for your work etc which might be important to you.
The negatives I was told is that it's definitely harder work than what these guys were used to at easy. The Airbus guys at BA seem to be racking up over 800 hours a year which due to the chaos that is LHR means that most people bid off the fleet as soon as they can as it really is exhausting on short haul (so I'm told).
For my own part, I joined from a charter outfit onto the 777 and am pretty happy with my lot, though by my standards at least I work far harder at BA! 550 hours a year in my previous airline as opposed to 850 hours now and no the pay is barely different (long term I know it will improve for sure). I'm sure easy has a far more positive and fun culture than BA but that aside your decision would have to depend on your long term aspirations and how many more years you anticipate flying for.
Positives seem to be that pay is apparantly a bit better, though not hugely so I believe. The guys I joined with are all young, mostly single, and seem to quite like getting to nightstop in Europe. In time to come there's also obviously the option to do long haul, bid for your work etc which might be important to you.
The negatives I was told is that it's definitely harder work than what these guys were used to at easy. The Airbus guys at BA seem to be racking up over 800 hours a year which due to the chaos that is LHR means that most people bid off the fleet as soon as they can as it really is exhausting on short haul (so I'm told).
For my own part, I joined from a charter outfit onto the 777 and am pretty happy with my lot, though by my standards at least I work far harder at BA! 550 hours a year in my previous airline as opposed to 850 hours now and no the pay is barely different (long term I know it will improve for sure). I'm sure easy has a far more positive and fun culture than BA but that aside your decision would have to depend on your long term aspirations and how many more years you anticipate flying for.
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Over and above the obvious factors which have already been discussed here such as pay, l think everyone is chasing lifestyle and that is what you must consider when choosing jobs. Do you want to be home every night with your family in the house that you are paying a large slice of your earnings to own or are you happy to be away staying in nice 5* hotels?
Sounds obvious and dont get me wrong they are both good on their merits but only you can decide what you want out of your flying career vs home life.
As for burn out and working practices, there is no "golden job" any more and l think everyone works pretty hard now so again you need to think what is good for you. EZY offer the fixed roster but BA offer trips away in exotic destinations...what would be best for you?
Sounds obvious and dont get me wrong they are both good on their merits but only you can decide what you want out of your flying career vs home life.
As for burn out and working practices, there is no "golden job" any more and l think everyone works pretty hard now so again you need to think what is good for you. EZY offer the fixed roster but BA offer trips away in exotic destinations...what would be best for you?
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The Airbus guys at BA seem to be racking up over 800 hours a year which due to the chaos that is LHR means that most people bid off the fleet as soon as they can as it really is exhausting on short haul (so I'm told).
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You're not trying to tell me there are no 15-18 hour slips or stand-over days any more are you? Mind you I suppose the lifestyle does depend on one's bidding seniority. 
Mrs W says she misses the 5 star hotels too. Doesn't much like having to slum it in a 4 star most of the time when we go places. Can't seem to negotiate a good discount anywhere these days since I don't have access to BA crew rates any more!
Mrs W says she misses the 5 star hotels too. Doesn't much like having to slum it in a 4 star most of the time when we go places. Can't seem to negotiate a good discount anywhere these days since I don't have access to BA crew rates any more!
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Cheers for starting this thread African Dude.
I'm also off for the BA selection soon. I have to admit, I'm not sure now is the time to be moving companies and sitting at the very bottom of a Seniority list whilst oil prices go through the roof. Would this concern you if you do get offered the job at BA? I think life at EZY is great, it would be nice to do a few more over nights but with Lyon etc, I think that's on the way anyway.
I'm also off for the BA selection soon. I have to admit, I'm not sure now is the time to be moving companies and sitting at the very bottom of a Seniority list whilst oil prices go through the roof. Would this concern you if you do get offered the job at BA? I think life at EZY is great, it would be nice to do a few more over nights but with Lyon etc, I think that's on the way anyway.
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Originally Posted by Wingswinger
Having done that for my last years in BA I can assure you it is not nearly as exhausting as dragging oneself out of bed around 4am for five days in a row to fly four sectors or getting home at 1 am or later for five days in a row after four sectors.
You're not trying to tell me there are no 15-18 hour slips or stand-over days any more are you?