My experience with Ryanair
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Since when has BALPA, or IALPA or any other ALPA in Europe been the panacea???
Whenever the sh1t hits the fan pilots will unfailingly and with staggering unity look after Number 1 and to hell with everyone else!! The " I'm all right Jack" syndrome is alive and doing very well in the pilot community.
The guys at FR are just living the truth....the bottom line counts and you are on your own!!
Whenever the sh1t hits the fan pilots will unfailingly and with staggering unity look after Number 1 and to hell with everyone else!! The " I'm all right Jack" syndrome is alive and doing very well in the pilot community.
The guys at FR are just living the truth....the bottom line counts and you are on your own!!
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Grim REPA "I HAVE BEEN RYANAIR OVER 10 YEARS!!!why do i stay"
A good question but not fully answered:
Should they all stay on for 10 years or more? Is that a solution?
Why do you stay? Is it to gain unity within the pilot ranks? To piss off management? Work together with BALPA IALPA IMPACT or any other "Gentlemans club"? Or are you simply "reasonably" content with the JOB and pissed of with management styles?
Should they all stay on for 10 years or more? Is that a solution?
Why do you stay? Is it to gain unity within the pilot ranks? To piss off management? Work together with BALPA IALPA IMPACT or any other "Gentlemans club"? Or are you simply "reasonably" content with the JOB and pissed of with management styles?
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multi-lingual
Hi Flycheaper, I am multi-lingual, English, Dutch, French and profanity. wife does Spanish and Portugese.
I am very surprised at your English and stand by previous posters doubts. In the 3 yrs I lived in Amsterdam I never heard the kind of lingual faux-pas you have posted. I will subject it scrutiny by an academic friend of mine and get back to you.
I had rose tinted specs in my first job (not flying) but soon wore off, I was young.
If you are a FR mouthpiece, FR must be desperate. Hope you aint gonna be takin me from EGGP to LEGR next month.
If not, listen to what the exp guys on here are saying, some have been round the block a few times, no offense guys. Talk to the older people, learn the history. I am no hot-head but realise that only a strong union can stop the erosion of T&Cs, if they can hit you they can hit smaller people like me or those who can be more easily targetted, they are the experienced guys.
If you fly a desk, hope 'sink rate' rings in your ears forever, if you are flyin, join the good guys.
Al
I am very surprised at your English and stand by previous posters doubts. In the 3 yrs I lived in Amsterdam I never heard the kind of lingual faux-pas you have posted. I will subject it scrutiny by an academic friend of mine and get back to you.
I had rose tinted specs in my first job (not flying) but soon wore off, I was young.
If you are a FR mouthpiece, FR must be desperate. Hope you aint gonna be takin me from EGGP to LEGR next month.
If not, listen to what the exp guys on here are saying, some have been round the block a few times, no offense guys. Talk to the older people, learn the history. I am no hot-head but realise that only a strong union can stop the erosion of T&Cs, if they can hit you they can hit smaller people like me or those who can be more easily targetted, they are the experienced guys.
If you fly a desk, hope 'sink rate' rings in your ears forever, if you are flyin, join the good guys.
Al
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Ryanair,
T&C's I have no doubt are s**te and have seen all ryanair threads, but who else employs cadets with 250hrs??
12 cv's later to almost every airline in Europe and Ryanair the only one to get back to me???
Is it just me or other low hour guys who have this problem??
I respect all the pilots who are doing this for a living and no doubt they have been around the block more than a few times and im not ignoring there advice however everybody needs a break at the start and thats what Ryanair are giving people, why do people put down cadets if they choose to work for RYR, sometimes this is there only option and with a debt of 95k hanging over your head the last thing you want to do is turn down a job offer!
Our options are limited even in a rapidly expanding industry!
Im just asking for a little understanding from the experienced guys on this!
T&C's I have no doubt are s**te and have seen all ryanair threads, but who else employs cadets with 250hrs??
12 cv's later to almost every airline in Europe and Ryanair the only one to get back to me???
Is it just me or other low hour guys who have this problem??
I respect all the pilots who are doing this for a living and no doubt they have been around the block more than a few times and im not ignoring there advice however everybody needs a break at the start and thats what Ryanair are giving people, why do people put down cadets if they choose to work for RYR, sometimes this is there only option and with a debt of 95k hanging over your head the last thing you want to do is turn down a job offer!
Our options are limited even in a rapidly expanding industry!
Im just asking for a little understanding from the experienced guys on this!
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Just a little thing regarding this statement, not the poster,
Like most I come on this site most days and read all the Ryanair bashing and how all the new guys are erroding all the T&C's for everyone in the industry.
Now I was one of the lucky guys who was offered 2 jobs on the same day, one of them happened to be from FR, the other a well established LHR airline with nice blue and white buses! Due to unforseen events I'm now flying a blue white and yellow boeing around europe.
Now what winds me up is all this crap about saying dont go to FR, dont ruin it for the rest of us. The rest of who exactly? The guys that have been at it for years and have the experience and power to do something about it?
Now I pay my BALPA membership and all it seems to do is get yous guys better T&C's whilst ours stay as pants as normal!
All of a sudden I'm paying for you guys to moan at me for trying to make it in an industry which is every man for themselves! Do you think the guys at BA, EZY, VIR, BMI will turn round and help those in other airlines like FR?
And the question from that.... why not??
Aviation is one big family. How often do you say I know that person from such and such or I know someone who knows them etc.....
Now if your not gonna help, stop getting on at the guys trying to get that break or you could maybe leave your seat and let someone else have a go!
Oh, and for the record FR aren't actually that bad, just dont let them push you around and enjoy the flying! Rosters are good, money is better than a lot of airlines and honestly tell me a more than a handfull of airlines that dont charge for TR or put you on a reduced salary to start as your bonded. Think you'll find after 5 years we've all earned the same!
The world is not the same place and neither is the airline industry so its about time some people came round to that fact!
rant over i'll await the on slaught from my fellow BALPA members who have just secured another pay rise at my expense!
listen to what the exp guys on here are saying, some have been round the block a few times, no offense guys. Talk to the older people, learn the history. I am no hot-head but realise that only a strong union can stop the erosion of T&Cs, if they can hit you they can hit smaller people like me or those who can be more easily targetted, they are the experienced guys.
Now I was one of the lucky guys who was offered 2 jobs on the same day, one of them happened to be from FR, the other a well established LHR airline with nice blue and white buses! Due to unforseen events I'm now flying a blue white and yellow boeing around europe.
Now what winds me up is all this crap about saying dont go to FR, dont ruin it for the rest of us. The rest of who exactly? The guys that have been at it for years and have the experience and power to do something about it?
Now I pay my BALPA membership and all it seems to do is get yous guys better T&C's whilst ours stay as pants as normal!
All of a sudden I'm paying for you guys to moan at me for trying to make it in an industry which is every man for themselves! Do you think the guys at BA, EZY, VIR, BMI will turn round and help those in other airlines like FR?
And the question from that.... why not??
Aviation is one big family. How often do you say I know that person from such and such or I know someone who knows them etc.....
Now if your not gonna help, stop getting on at the guys trying to get that break or you could maybe leave your seat and let someone else have a go!
Oh, and for the record FR aren't actually that bad, just dont let them push you around and enjoy the flying! Rosters are good, money is better than a lot of airlines and honestly tell me a more than a handfull of airlines that dont charge for TR or put you on a reduced salary to start as your bonded. Think you'll find after 5 years we've all earned the same!
The world is not the same place and neither is the airline industry so its about time some people came round to that fact!
rant over i'll await the on slaught from my fellow BALPA members who have just secured another pay rise at my expense!
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Kempus
You don't mind FR and you are reasonably happy, good for you and good luck with it. Having said that, I thought you made a good case until you said this.
What are you talking about?
Pay rises, roster agreemants and the like negotiated at ezy, BA etc are secured through union membership.
You will only ever get shafted by FR, because you are not allowed to have any union recognition. BALPA, IALPA etc are far from perfect but the cold hard fact is FR is a mess, with god knows how many different contracts and pay scales, each worse than the one previous, because it is as Slim Shady pointed out, every man for himself. I know lots of FR guys, none af them are happy but they are all resigned to their lot.
Until you guys at FR act collectively you will continue to make MOL and his fellow management scum rich and get screwed over yourselves while you are at it. And the rest of us moan in your direction because as sure as the Irish like a drink, you will eventually be bringing us with you.
You don't mind FR and you are reasonably happy, good for you and good luck with it. Having said that, I thought you made a good case until you said this.
rant over i'll await the on slaught from my fellow BALPA members who have just secured another pay rise at my expense!
Pay rises, roster agreemants and the like negotiated at ezy, BA etc are secured through union membership.
You will only ever get shafted by FR, because you are not allowed to have any union recognition. BALPA, IALPA etc are far from perfect but the cold hard fact is FR is a mess, with god knows how many different contracts and pay scales, each worse than the one previous, because it is as Slim Shady pointed out, every man for himself. I know lots of FR guys, none af them are happy but they are all resigned to their lot.
Until you guys at FR act collectively you will continue to make MOL and his fellow management scum rich and get screwed over yourselves while you are at it. And the rest of us moan in your direction because as sure as the Irish like a drink, you will eventually be bringing us with you.
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The problem for the guys and gals that have been at FR for quite some time is that the T&C's are being constantly eroded. Someone who is a skipper might be on say EUR100k (figures plucked from the sky but probably not far off for someone in under 10 years). It probably sounds a lot. But remember that each year they give you a pay rise with the one hand and then deduct a bit for this or a bit for that or change the rostering system so you are working longer.
The problem arises when you stay in TOO long. Each of us typically spends up to our own means. We take out mortgages up to the limit of our means so that we can live in a better area. So whilst they might want to jump ship going to a legacy carrier where you might be on 50k as an f/o is a hard pill to swallow. Yes they will get their pension, sector pay, uniforms, carparking, meals, union recognition, seniority list, hotels etc etc but they still have to pay the mortgage at the end of the day.
The moral of the story is leave early or don't go there in the first place. History has shown that membership of IALPA/BALPA will get you very little as management have no willingness whatsoever to come to the negotiating table despite the best interests of many of the pilot fraternity.
The problem arises when you stay in TOO long. Each of us typically spends up to our own means. We take out mortgages up to the limit of our means so that we can live in a better area. So whilst they might want to jump ship going to a legacy carrier where you might be on 50k as an f/o is a hard pill to swallow. Yes they will get their pension, sector pay, uniforms, carparking, meals, union recognition, seniority list, hotels etc etc but they still have to pay the mortgage at the end of the day.
The moral of the story is leave early or don't go there in the first place. History has shown that membership of IALPA/BALPA will get you very little as management have no willingness whatsoever to come to the negotiating table despite the best interests of many of the pilot fraternity.
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I can understand the problem from both sides...
From an experienced pilot point of view, if other airlines see Ryanair getting away with this then they may begin to bring these policies into their own recruitment system. If you were to stand up to them and say no you don't want the job because of their system, they would eventually need to change the system.
However, from a new pilot view there are very little jobs currently available so it's an easy step into the industry.
I'm not an airline pilot, but I believe pilots should stand together against these Terms so that they are forced to change their ways.
From an experienced pilot point of view, if other airlines see Ryanair getting away with this then they may begin to bring these policies into their own recruitment system. If you were to stand up to them and say no you don't want the job because of their system, they would eventually need to change the system.
However, from a new pilot view there are very little jobs currently available so it's an easy step into the industry.
I'm not an airline pilot, but I believe pilots should stand together against these Terms so that they are forced to change their ways.
