Experience commensurate with age.
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Experience commensurate with age.
How does this work and do employers enforce any sort of scale when reviewing applications? I have had a look at an old thread started a few years back, but wondered if I may get a fresh set of answers to the above question. I have an ATPL and 1600 hours (700jet). Currently employed, but looking up other avenues now due to possible future changes. Silly question maybe, but will my full ATPL plus increasing multi crew hours stand me in good stead when applying elsewhere? (I am 35 now). I just cant help feeling that I will be expected to have a vast amount more in my log book because of my age.
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I was on the same postion as you when I was 35 and I never had any problems. I was rated on the 73 and I got offered a job (737 and 320) on everyone of the (3) airlines I applied to.
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I'm 42 and the only problem I had about age vs experience was with First Choice. I had 800hrs 757. Nothing mentioned but heard a few things afterwards. They had a stiffy for 22yr old girls and boys at the time I remember.
Looking back now I thank god they were sniffy about it. All silly really because you've got a good few years of flying left even at 40 and less likely to run off to BA to wear a silly hat.
Looking back now I thank god they were sniffy about it. All silly really because you've got a good few years of flying left even at 40 and less likely to run off to BA to wear a silly hat.
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I know what you mean King Halibut! And calypso, positive words, thanks! I want to keep flying jets (ERJ145), but it seems this could possibly come to an end ultimately in my particular company. I am interested in applying to the likes of Monarch, medium haul type operators with good career prospects.
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I suppose the obvious answer is a simple graph of age on one axis against experience on the other.
Start with, say, a 25 year old with 1,000 hours for arguments sake and assume 500 hours a year. So at retirement 40 years later s/he would have 21,000 hours.
So at 35 years old, the experience commensurate with age would be about 6,000 hours. The experience level of a jet captain.
In the real world it's supply and demand.
You always get the 'age and experience' letter wishing you well when times are bad and the job offer when times improve.
I had 1,000 hours when I was 40 and got lots of 'age and experience' letters. Then, suddenly, with not much more experience I had a jet job at 44.
Simple economics, so don't worry.
KR
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Start with, say, a 25 year old with 1,000 hours for arguments sake and assume 500 hours a year. So at retirement 40 years later s/he would have 21,000 hours.
So at 35 years old, the experience commensurate with age would be about 6,000 hours. The experience level of a jet captain.
In the real world it's supply and demand.
You always get the 'age and experience' letter wishing you well when times are bad and the job offer when times improve.
I had 1,000 hours when I was 40 and got lots of 'age and experience' letters. Then, suddenly, with not much more experience I had a jet job at 44.
Simple economics, so don't worry.
KR
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Same in the U.S. so far as supply versus demand. I have a letter from an airline dated 1977 rejecting application as "too old for our requirements" and one the following year, 1978, saying "pleased to offer you employment". I took the job and retired 28 years later. On reflection, I can see that "my age was not commensurate with my age". In many cases, "recency of flight" is the deciding or limiting factor....stay active and stay current. Timbob.
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If you get a letter with the age/experience requirements not met, rush on down to the lawyers and get them to sue the airline to hell!
As yet there is no upper limit to compensation for age related discrimination (and also no test case either).
As yet there is no upper limit to compensation for age related discrimination (and also no test case either).
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A very Civil Pilot, wouldn't that be nice. Nobody, of course will ever tell you they are not employing you based on age.
"unfortunately on this occasion, your application was not successful blah blah"
Of course it is done, but never admitted
"unfortunately on this occasion, your application was not successful blah blah"
Of course it is done, but never admitted
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Yes, quite.
The age/experience excuse should never be quoted for precisely the reasons described by AVCP - and probably never will be.
I would be exceedingly surprised if an airline exposed itself from a legal standpoint in that manner.
KR
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The age/experience excuse should never be quoted for precisely the reasons described by AVCP - and probably never will be.
I would be exceedingly surprised if an airline exposed itself from a legal standpoint in that manner.
KR
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ageism
hi all ,
i am currently 44 with zero but am considering investing in training over the next 12 - 18 mths to get my cpl.
have spoken to a co who offer training and they were suggesting i may find it difficuilt to get a contract or job , but not impossible ?
advice please from others in similair situations.
thanks
euro
i am currently 44 with zero but am considering investing in training over the next 12 - 18 mths to get my cpl.
have spoken to a co who offer training and they were suggesting i may find it difficuilt to get a contract or job , but not impossible ?
advice please from others in similair situations.
thanks
euro
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Pax on the run - don't worry about it - you will be fine. However euro read on!!
Am sad to say that if you are 44 and considering investing all the time, cash and personal sacrifice needed to get anywhere near your frozen ATPL you must be either rich, single without children (preferably both) or mad!
I know a guy of similar age, keen as mustard, who despite my advice (because its my dream!!) left a steady, final salary pension, every weekend off £47k a year job because it was his dream. He is now still unemployed after completing an integrated course a year ago, in the throws of a divorce and bankrupt! If you starting at 44 measure up the realities on the impact of your life and those of the industry these days - crap pay, crap T's and C's, crap lifestyle and that you will be competing against hundreds of twentysomethings. You should have had the gumption to pursue the 'dream' when you were young enough to live on the edge of the financial cliff.
That said i wish you all the best but really do look at the realities, airlines that will pay you a family wage do not hire 200 hour 46 year olds.
If you are rich can you lend me some cash please?
Am sad to say that if you are 44 and considering investing all the time, cash and personal sacrifice needed to get anywhere near your frozen ATPL you must be either rich, single without children (preferably both) or mad!
I know a guy of similar age, keen as mustard, who despite my advice (because its my dream!!) left a steady, final salary pension, every weekend off £47k a year job because it was his dream. He is now still unemployed after completing an integrated course a year ago, in the throws of a divorce and bankrupt! If you starting at 44 measure up the realities on the impact of your life and those of the industry these days - crap pay, crap T's and C's, crap lifestyle and that you will be competing against hundreds of twentysomethings. You should have had the gumption to pursue the 'dream' when you were young enough to live on the edge of the financial cliff.
That said i wish you all the best but really do look at the realities, airlines that will pay you a family wage do not hire 200 hour 46 year olds.
If you are rich can you lend me some cash please?
Last edited by MaxAOB; 23rd Feb 2008 at 16:58.
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Euro,
On the other hand, a friend of mine aged 43 has just secured a job with Ryanair. He has 220hrs total time, basic cpl/ir etc. Yes he's having to pay 30k euros for his type rating, but by the time he's 50, he'll be a Captain with 6000hrs on the B737. And he will still have another 10 to 15 years flying left, maybe longer if there are future legislation changes.
It is a huge gamble no matter what your age but I will agree with the points made by others in this thread that the older you are, the harder it is to get that all important first job.
You pays your money, you takes the choice...................
Good luck whatever you decide
On the other hand, a friend of mine aged 43 has just secured a job with Ryanair. He has 220hrs total time, basic cpl/ir etc. Yes he's having to pay 30k euros for his type rating, but by the time he's 50, he'll be a Captain with 6000hrs on the B737. And he will still have another 10 to 15 years flying left, maybe longer if there are future legislation changes.
It is a huge gamble no matter what your age but I will agree with the points made by others in this thread that the older you are, the harder it is to get that all important first job.
You pays your money, you takes the choice...................
Good luck whatever you decide
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Plus if you really wanted to buffer yourself you could pay for some hours on type.
Personally I don't agree with paying AEU and EagleJet for hours but if you are on the older side maybe that will sway airlines.
I'm 42 and have a Kronenburg one pack so can bounce the young spikey haired pretenders out of my way
Personally I don't agree with paying AEU and EagleJet for hours but if you are on the older side maybe that will sway airlines.
I'm 42 and have a Kronenburg one pack so can bounce the young spikey haired pretenders out of my way
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Yes he's having to pay 30k euros for his type rating, but by the time he's 50, he'll be a Captain with 6000hrs on the B737.
The airline industry will go up, down and sideways several times in 7 years
Ryanair will go in any direction provided is down for pilots and up for managers
A command course may or may not turn up, he may or may not pass his command assesment/course/line check... he may or may not be able to move to Kazakstan to take the post
