Anyone, who works as pilot with Ryanair?
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Anyone, who works as pilot with Ryanair?
You hear a lot about Ryanair, these days. Extremely low fares. Fast growing low-cost airline. Demanding a fee for every application... Well, they will be hiring quite some pilots in the future, for sure. . .Is it worth to send an application?. .Anybody, who works with Ryanair as pilot? What is it like? Working-conditions, flight-schedule, free time, payment,...???
Well actually last year all the Ryan FO's I met at EGSS were on more than the Buzz, easy or Go FO's. Some FO's who have been in FRA more than 4 years are on £49k with shares worth about £60k gratis.
Around a pub table one afternoon with a BA mate of mine (F/O we were all around the age of 26) we worked out our projected earnings if we were to stay with our current companys until retirement (FRA Go BA). The ranking came out as I just typed. (we allowed the BA guy a 55 retirement then 5 years in the LHS at Go).
The mystical BA pension advantage worked out at him on £46,000 a year, me on £39,500 a year and the Ryan guy on £47,000 a year...
What the situation is now with new joiners at FRA I have no idea. Probably not nearly so good.
However, if you wanted to make money in the last 5 years you should have joined Ryanair and not BA.
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Around a pub table one afternoon with a BA mate of mine (F/O we were all around the age of 26) we worked out our projected earnings if we were to stay with our current companys until retirement (FRA Go BA). The ranking came out as I just typed. (we allowed the BA guy a 55 retirement then 5 years in the LHS at Go).
The mystical BA pension advantage worked out at him on £46,000 a year, me on £39,500 a year and the Ryan guy on £47,000 a year...
What the situation is now with new joiners at FRA I have no idea. Probably not nearly so good.
However, if you wanted to make money in the last 5 years you should have joined Ryanair and not BA.
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Its not what you EARN today, its what you EARN when you are 55/60. AND, are you in SECURE EMPLOYMENT until 55/60.
I remember a FR Capt who got "services no longer required" one Sunday morning this time last year WITHOUT WARNING or DISCUSSION.
Put yourself in his shoes at his next interview - Why did you leave FR? . . Remember ALL Pilots have integrity and one answers truthfully - "FR dismissed me without etc etc " . .If you are interviewing would you employ this Capt?
By the way - That Capts record is CLEAN. I flew with him and he took no **** from Management. He operated a safe happy ship and looked after his crew AND passengers.
Does your management do that?
<img src="cool.gif" border="0">
I remember a FR Capt who got "services no longer required" one Sunday morning this time last year WITHOUT WARNING or DISCUSSION.
Put yourself in his shoes at his next interview - Why did you leave FR? . . Remember ALL Pilots have integrity and one answers truthfully - "FR dismissed me without etc etc " . .If you are interviewing would you employ this Capt?
By the way - That Capts record is CLEAN. I flew with him and he took no **** from Management. He operated a safe happy ship and looked after his crew AND passengers.
Does your management do that?
<img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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Visual.
Let's get this straight. Your parents paid for you to get your licence (£25.000+?) and you are complaining because you chose to stump up £15,000?
Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly dislike the idea of buying your own type rating (ok with bonds) but matey, you got off lightly.
And who forced you to work for Ryanair?
[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: Flintstone ]</p>
Let's get this straight. Your parents paid for you to get your licence (£25.000+?) and you are complaining because you chose to stump up £15,000?
Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly dislike the idea of buying your own type rating (ok with bonds) but matey, you got off lightly.
And who forced you to work for Ryanair?
[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: Flintstone ]</p>
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Visual, no misunderstanding here.
You've done well, and are in a position others no doubt envy. But I would ask that you don't look down too far at Ryanair. They have a successful business and are growing at a phenomenal rate. Sure they have some 'less-than-ethical' recruitment practises. But respect they do deserve.
<img src="wink.gif" border="0">
You've done well, and are in a position others no doubt envy. But I would ask that you don't look down too far at Ryanair. They have a successful business and are growing at a phenomenal rate. Sure they have some 'less-than-ethical' recruitment practises. But respect they do deserve.
<img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Visual - it is not entirely professional to call a large airlines pilots 'Cowboys'. You could not possibly know if they were as you have never flown with them. It does the perception of BA and their Cadets no favours at all to make such insults.
One wouldn't want to call all BA pilots drunken idiots for example. You may make a case for disliking MOL. But the pilot workforce are a seperate entity.
Cheers,
WWW
One wouldn't want to call all BA pilots drunken idiots for example. You may make a case for disliking MOL. But the pilot workforce are a seperate entity.
Cheers,
WWW
>>By the way - That Capts record is CLEAN. I flew with him and he took no **** from Management. He operated a safe happy ship and looked after his crew AND passengers<<
Thats obviously not what Ryanair want from their Skippers then.
A Captain HAS to be act independently when making decisions in the cockpit. It just does not work when you have that nagging feeling that management are going to react adversly against you on their own whims.
Thats obviously not what Ryanair want from their Skippers then.
A Captain HAS to be act independently when making decisions in the cockpit. It just does not work when you have that nagging feeling that management are going to react adversly against you on their own whims.
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What has all this got to do with Ryan Air? It sounds more like quality of life and cost of getting a job rather than any paticular company.. .By the way, they're all the same bunch of cheaters. They're trying to screw as much out of you as they can, so why not resiprocate; but it still has nothing to do with the topic of this post!!
Visual - fair enough then. It was entirely possible to read your orginal comments in a very derogatory fashion obviously not intended.
Personally for all the sniping at Ryanair the proposition is not really that bad working for them. You get an extremely stable 5 on 3 off work pattern all year, industry average reumeration and benefits and you are sat in a virtually brand new NG Boeing. And no night flights at all.
Factor in the fact that you have low time to command as they expand compounded with a sense of real job security and things could be a whole lot worse. Even if you never lose your job just the credible risk that your airline is going belly up can mean you live with your life on hold for serious periods of time. What price do you put on that?
Not that I am any great FRA fan. I just think that people put the boot in a little unfairly at times. Who ever thought you could fill a 737 from Dublin into Newquay; but it seems you can...
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Personally for all the sniping at Ryanair the proposition is not really that bad working for them. You get an extremely stable 5 on 3 off work pattern all year, industry average reumeration and benefits and you are sat in a virtually brand new NG Boeing. And no night flights at all.
Factor in the fact that you have low time to command as they expand compounded with a sense of real job security and things could be a whole lot worse. Even if you never lose your job just the credible risk that your airline is going belly up can mean you live with your life on hold for serious periods of time. What price do you put on that?
Not that I am any great FRA fan. I just think that people put the boot in a little unfairly at times. Who ever thought you could fill a 737 from Dublin into Newquay; but it seems you can...
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We used 30 year careers as we were all in upper 20's with the BA retiring at 55 with 5 years in Go as LHS upon retirement. FRA and GO spent enitre career in same airline. Non BA put 10% into pension but got command 8 years earlier. FRA pilot started at age 24 me 26 and BA 28 from a cadet scheme with 5 years of reduced pay couple with a base change which he wanted to get out of SE England.
Not in anyway representative of exactly same case scenarios but it was what each of us in the pub at the time were faced with.
Hardly a full analysis by The Money Programme but I remain convinced that the historic BA advantage in monetary career worth is now marginal compared to many other airline careers.
Factor in the frankly appalling morale within BirdSeed..
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Not in anyway representative of exactly same case scenarios but it was what each of us in the pub at the time were faced with.
Hardly a full analysis by The Money Programme but I remain convinced that the historic BA advantage in monetary career worth is now marginal compared to many other airline careers.
Factor in the frankly appalling morale within BirdSeed..
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Also factor in the basing of the different airlines. BA mainly basing at LHR or LGW. To commute to either of these airports within the 1hr stipulated in CAP371 puts you slap bang in the middle of highly priced real estate. FR basing at STN or BRS gives far more opportunities to buy houses at reasonable rates. Last time I was in LGW there were 2 bed starter homes advertised in the local paper, starting at 149k !! How the hell does anyone afford to live there??
Also factor in the basing of the different airlines. BA mainly basing at LHR or LGW. To commute to either of these airports within the 1hr stipulated in CAP371 puts you slap bang in the middle of highly priced real estate. FR basing at STN or BRS gives far more opportunities to buy houses at reasonable rates. Last time I was in LGW there were 2 bed starter homes advertised in the local paper, starting at 149k !! How the hell does anyone afford to live there??
Yeah we left that factor out actually one the basis that we only wanted to look at remuneration. It is a very very valid point thought and one we aired at the time.
Obviously for many from that part of the world it is a huge plus getting a LGW LHR base. For me it would be purgatory. Certainly in Cheltenham - not exactly known as a 'cheap' place to live :rolleyes - I can get a very nice period 2 bedroom house, garden, driveway, garage, near town centre for £180,000. We all know what a rat hole that amount gets within 60 driving mins of LHR+car park walk.
Not wanting to be a BA basher in any way shape or form (the worse they get paid the worse the rest of the industry gets paid tomorrow) but I would not apply to work for them in a million years now. The money and security is no longer meaningfully better than commonly available elsewhere. The industrial relations enviornment and morale is probably worse. I don't want a divorce - sorry, I mean Longhaul and the prospects of having to moved to the SouthEast fills me with woe.
I have no idea if BA would actually like me to apply to them. Probably not. But I am 27, have a decent stack of academic quals/degree am Boeing rated with 2000hrs on British license and was an instructor at a school they sent their cadets to. If people like me are not even remotely tempted to apply to them (pre Sept 11th) then possibly I think they may have a recruitment problem in the future. Which is sad in a way and good in another. Sad that what was the pinacle of many career aspirations has fallen so far so quickly. Good that BA may have to up T&C's for the flightdeck in the future.
Mind you I wouldn't mind 650hrs a year rather than 899.
This of course has little to do with the thread title so I shall now admonish myself quite sternly for thread wander.
Cheers,
WWW
Obviously for many from that part of the world it is a huge plus getting a LGW LHR base. For me it would be purgatory. Certainly in Cheltenham - not exactly known as a 'cheap' place to live :rolleyes - I can get a very nice period 2 bedroom house, garden, driveway, garage, near town centre for £180,000. We all know what a rat hole that amount gets within 60 driving mins of LHR+car park walk.
Not wanting to be a BA basher in any way shape or form (the worse they get paid the worse the rest of the industry gets paid tomorrow) but I would not apply to work for them in a million years now. The money and security is no longer meaningfully better than commonly available elsewhere. The industrial relations enviornment and morale is probably worse. I don't want a divorce - sorry, I mean Longhaul and the prospects of having to moved to the SouthEast fills me with woe.
I have no idea if BA would actually like me to apply to them. Probably not. But I am 27, have a decent stack of academic quals/degree am Boeing rated with 2000hrs on British license and was an instructor at a school they sent their cadets to. If people like me are not even remotely tempted to apply to them (pre Sept 11th) then possibly I think they may have a recruitment problem in the future. Which is sad in a way and good in another. Sad that what was the pinacle of many career aspirations has fallen so far so quickly. Good that BA may have to up T&C's for the flightdeck in the future.
Mind you I wouldn't mind 650hrs a year rather than 899.
This of course has little to do with the thread title so I shall now admonish myself quite sternly for thread wander.
Cheers,
WWW
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The thread might have wandered but you are spot as regards conditions in BA. The current generation of retirees have done very nicely but, thats it, the party is very definately over and many of us who joined over the last few years may well be left nursing a financial hangover when the management take an axe to the new airways pension scheme.. .Regards BP
Really? HAve they really axed the final salary scheme for DEP's?!?! This is remarkable news if correct.
In which case I cannot see for the life of me why someone would leave any low cost, charter or well established scheduled outfit for BA. If they really do make EuroGatwick 737 crews work as hard as easyJet, GO and Buzz 737 drivers (i.e. 900hrs a year) and no nighstops (with those allowances)then surely the BA crews will be earning LESS than their low cost counterparts.
How the worm has turned.
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In which case I cannot see for the life of me why someone would leave any low cost, charter or well established scheduled outfit for BA. If they really do make EuroGatwick 737 crews work as hard as easyJet, GO and Buzz 737 drivers (i.e. 900hrs a year) and no nighstops (with those allowances)then surely the BA crews will be earning LESS than their low cost counterparts.
How the worm has turned.
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WWW,. .. .It's possible that some pilots have other sources of money (inherited or spouse's job) and are more interested in flying bigger, more advanced equipment like a 777 or 747-400 (or Concorde if you are REALLY lucky). That could be a legitimate reason for shooting for BA - despite potential monetary downfalls.... .. .Sure, your argument about maintaining a healthy marriage and spending more time at home is sound, but flying the latest and greatest aircraft wouldn't be too bad either (especially if you are single)... I know a former BA cadet (early 1990s cadet) who now flies the 777 for BA as an FO - he loves his job and is wild about the 777 (he flew 737s for many years before his recent 777 posting). . .. .Either way, flying for BA or one of the better positioned low-cost carriers like GO, Ryanair or EasyJet ensures a reasonable amount of security and monetary benefits - if you escape the AXE!. .. .Cheers