Go, Ryanair, easyJet or BMI?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go, Ryanair, easyJet or BMI?
I´m type rated on the 737 and have just recently been pursuing Go and Ryanair, I´m not sure which one has the best offer as far as pay working environment and benefits. Anybody with experience with these companies and some words of advice regarding them?
Is easyJet still offering the 30.000 pound sign on bonus?
Is easyJet still offering the 30.000 pound sign on bonus?
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Therosterman,
My feeling is that there will eventually be consolidation in the low-fare market in the UK - you have Go, Ryanair, easyJet and Buzz all competing for the same market segment. I would align myself with the eventual leaders - in my opinion Ryanair and easyJet.
I have heard the work conditions at Ryanair are difficult - but short-haul flying is typically difficult with regard to hours/schedules anyways. Both Ryanair and easyJet are loading up on newer-generation airplanes as well - beautiful and advanced 737-800s for Ryanair and nice 737-700s for easyJet. Go has been somewhat undecided about next-generation airplanes (rumors of A319s but nothing substantiated yet).
My advice would be to go with the eventual leaders - either Ryanair or easyJet. Have you seen those cool easyJet banner ads? The ads make it sound like a cool place to work (probably does not fit reality). Anyone disagree?
My feeling is that there will eventually be consolidation in the low-fare market in the UK - you have Go, Ryanair, easyJet and Buzz all competing for the same market segment. I would align myself with the eventual leaders - in my opinion Ryanair and easyJet.
I have heard the work conditions at Ryanair are difficult - but short-haul flying is typically difficult with regard to hours/schedules anyways. Both Ryanair and easyJet are loading up on newer-generation airplanes as well - beautiful and advanced 737-800s for Ryanair and nice 737-700s for easyJet. Go has been somewhat undecided about next-generation airplanes (rumors of A319s but nothing substantiated yet).
My advice would be to go with the eventual leaders - either Ryanair or easyJet. Have you seen those cool easyJet banner ads? The ads make it sound like a cool place to work (probably does not fit reality). Anyone disagree?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Therosterman:-I have to agree with LAVDUMPER on his analysis of the low cost aviation scene. Personally I believe that Ryanair will achieve market dominance at the expense of both GO and Buzz. EasyJet will continue to grow but I think will find it harder and harder, and will run out second to Ryanair.
The shorthaul work that these carriers do is hard work, multiple short sectors operating in busy airspace and into and out of airfields that are themselves getting busier and busier, it’s very tiring work. You do have the advantage though of being able to make good money, and as all the afore mentioned operators are outside of London you can probably live somewhere affordable.
Bmi are also worth considering, having recently joined the Star Alliance and with 14% of the slots at London Heathrow I believe they will be around for years to come, albeit playing second fiddle to British Airways at LHR. They fly short haul and now long haul with a summer programme of charter flying for various charter operators like Air 2000 and Airtours. Their pay and conditions are competitive, but you do have to work at LHR and live in the expensive South East.
I would choose between Ryanair and bmi, unless one of the other carriers operates from an airport away from the London area that suits you better.
The shorthaul work that these carriers do is hard work, multiple short sectors operating in busy airspace and into and out of airfields that are themselves getting busier and busier, it’s very tiring work. You do have the advantage though of being able to make good money, and as all the afore mentioned operators are outside of London you can probably live somewhere affordable.
Bmi are also worth considering, having recently joined the Star Alliance and with 14% of the slots at London Heathrow I believe they will be around for years to come, albeit playing second fiddle to British Airways at LHR. They fly short haul and now long haul with a summer programme of charter flying for various charter operators like Air 2000 and Airtours. Their pay and conditions are competitive, but you do have to work at LHR and live in the expensive South East.
I would choose between Ryanair and bmi, unless one of the other carriers operates from an airport away from the London area that suits you better.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Beverly Hills 90210
Posts: 223
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Therosterman,
I would have to agree with the last comment. BMI would not be a bad choice at all - looks like I forgot to mention it in my last comment.
BMI has a very nice fleet of B737-300/400/500, A320/21 and A330 aircraft. The routes are both scheduled and charter/tour (nice variety) in nature. I would not be surprised if BMI hooked up with a larger international player in the future (maybe Virgin) to better leverage their collective route structures, feed and Heathrow access. I think a combined Virgin and BMI would be a great place to work - so long as salaries increased a bit at Virgin (very low for the types of flying they do).
My choices then in order: Ryanair, BMI and easyJet.
Cheers
I would have to agree with the last comment. BMI would not be a bad choice at all - looks like I forgot to mention it in my last comment.
BMI has a very nice fleet of B737-300/400/500, A320/21 and A330 aircraft. The routes are both scheduled and charter/tour (nice variety) in nature. I would not be surprised if BMI hooked up with a larger international player in the future (maybe Virgin) to better leverage their collective route structures, feed and Heathrow access. I think a combined Virgin and BMI would be a great place to work - so long as salaries increased a bit at Virgin (very low for the types of flying they do).
My choices then in order: Ryanair, BMI and easyJet.
Cheers
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surprised, really, that none of you mention the options that Go has put into place for all of its staff. They favour, frankly, the pilots. And since none of the others mentioned will IPO in the next 2 years, there is much less upside.
Not to mention 7 more aircraft coming in next year.
Don't count Go out!
Not to mention 7 more aircraft coming in next year.
Don't count Go out!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Make sure that you make your evaluation based on facts from people working for, or worked for one of the airlines. Rumours from outsiders are rumours from outsiders.
Therefore, on this thread I cannot say anything about Ryanair, easyjet, BMI or Buzz. But I did a contract for Go. they have a new ops management team (the former chief pilot and training manager went to BWA). The new training manager I know as a solid professional. Sim and Line Instructors professional and team minded. Rostering Manager "bending backwards" to accomodate your requests.
On the other side, no crew transport at STN when the sun is shining, and no crew meals.
All in all a good operation, in my opinion.
Therefore, on this thread I cannot say anything about Ryanair, easyjet, BMI or Buzz. But I did a contract for Go. they have a new ops management team (the former chief pilot and training manager went to BWA). The new training manager I know as a solid professional. Sim and Line Instructors professional and team minded. Rostering Manager "bending backwards" to accomodate your requests.
On the other side, no crew transport at STN when the sun is shining, and no crew meals.
All in all a good operation, in my opinion.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Labyrinthman - I'm afraid you've been down your tunnel too long.
When you come out I think you'll find that Ryanair pilots have shares and EasyJet pilots got share options when they had their IPO - Capts currently sitting on roughly 35K profit after tax (9 mths after IPO) and they also have more shares being given out later this year.
I'm sure there is good and bad about GO like all the other low cost boys but 8 hrs on the flt deck without crew food! No thanks.
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]
When you come out I think you'll find that Ryanair pilots have shares and EasyJet pilots got share options when they had their IPO - Capts currently sitting on roughly 35K profit after tax (9 mths after IPO) and they also have more shares being given out later this year.
I'm sure there is good and bad about GO like all the other low cost boys but 8 hrs on the flt deck without crew food! No thanks.
[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: Gypsy ]
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Manchester,uk
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lavdumper,
re your comment about Virgin Hooking up with BMI. I belive this was mooted a few years back.Most people agreed that a combined operation would be good for both as VS would gain the feeder routes into LHR and BM would have a long haul operation out of same,which would scare the p*** out of BA. However the whole thing came to naught as the two head honchos were reputably unable to see eye to eye.
BMI now have their own Longhaul, albeit out of Manchester and are looking to expand into the far east,putting them in direct competition with VS. VS are now part owned by Singapore airlines,so it is dificult to see a meger happening. The only common thread is the Star Alliance which includes BMI and SQ (although not VS at least yet.)
Stranger things have happened however.
As far as working for them, I used to work for BMI (when it was plain old BM) and now work for VS.BM is fine if you live or can afford to live in the Southeast and enjoy 4 sector days out of LHR. Great bunch of guys and gals, good money but hard work and a lot of roster disruption.Reading other threads on Easy and Ryan, they seem to suffer the same.Given the choice I would plump for BMI.They are a big ,long established company,they will be around for a long time,command is fairly quick if you have more than 3000hrs and they have one of the few final salary pensions left.The flying is great experience and if you get fed up you can always come to Virgin!.
re your comment about Virgin Hooking up with BMI. I belive this was mooted a few years back.Most people agreed that a combined operation would be good for both as VS would gain the feeder routes into LHR and BM would have a long haul operation out of same,which would scare the p*** out of BA. However the whole thing came to naught as the two head honchos were reputably unable to see eye to eye.
BMI now have their own Longhaul, albeit out of Manchester and are looking to expand into the far east,putting them in direct competition with VS. VS are now part owned by Singapore airlines,so it is dificult to see a meger happening. The only common thread is the Star Alliance which includes BMI and SQ (although not VS at least yet.)
Stranger things have happened however.
As far as working for them, I used to work for BMI (when it was plain old BM) and now work for VS.BM is fine if you live or can afford to live in the Southeast and enjoy 4 sector days out of LHR. Great bunch of guys and gals, good money but hard work and a lot of roster disruption.Reading other threads on Easy and Ryan, they seem to suffer the same.Given the choice I would plump for BMI.They are a big ,long established company,they will be around for a long time,command is fairly quick if you have more than 3000hrs and they have one of the few final salary pensions left.The flying is great experience and if you get fed up you can always come to Virgin!.
I can make no comment about BMI but working for GO I am happy not to be in Ryan or Easy albeit that I have friends working in both those companies.
Ryan seems to be extremely adversarial in their flightdeck management, the Ryan family are selling themselves out recently, growth has come from being in Europes fastest growing economy for the last 10 years currently headed for a bust and I am not sure about repeat custom as they openly offer the lowest fares and the lowest service.
Easy seem to be run by very green personnel at all non flying levels, they are committed to an expensive new fleet at a time of economic slowdown and are based in Luton which has very little further room for expansion/development and will become more and more expensive as a result.
GO has its problems - perhaps its too small and too late into the market to withstand an economic slowdown (one of my worries).
I am confident that someone will quickly pick up my comments and provide a robust counterpoint. I wish the good people of Easy and Ryan no ill whatsoever - I think the market segment is big enough and un-exploited enough for us all to achieve our ambitions - look at continental europe; its a low cost desert...
Good luck with your job search, I hope you find just the right company for you.
WWW
Ryan seems to be extremely adversarial in their flightdeck management, the Ryan family are selling themselves out recently, growth has come from being in Europes fastest growing economy for the last 10 years currently headed for a bust and I am not sure about repeat custom as they openly offer the lowest fares and the lowest service.
Easy seem to be run by very green personnel at all non flying levels, they are committed to an expensive new fleet at a time of economic slowdown and are based in Luton which has very little further room for expansion/development and will become more and more expensive as a result.
GO has its problems - perhaps its too small and too late into the market to withstand an economic slowdown (one of my worries).
I am confident that someone will quickly pick up my comments and provide a robust counterpoint. I wish the good people of Easy and Ryan no ill whatsoever - I think the market segment is big enough and un-exploited enough for us all to achieve our ambitions - look at continental europe; its a low cost desert...
Good luck with your job search, I hope you find just the right company for you.
WWW
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
www
i have to say that you used to post at least some sensible comments during your time as an instructor, although with a bit of an over-inflated opinion of yourself; however, since you joined the world of the grown-ups all sense has evaporated.
the post above has all the tone and depth of a schoolboy's analysis of the aviation industry. your short time in go has not equipped you sufficiently for such broadbrush rash comments.
remember robust counterpoints demand robust points in the first place.
i have to say that you used to post at least some sensible comments during your time as an instructor, although with a bit of an over-inflated opinion of yourself; however, since you joined the world of the grown-ups all sense has evaporated.
the post above has all the tone and depth of a schoolboy's analysis of the aviation industry. your short time in go has not equipped you sufficiently for such broadbrush rash comments.
remember robust counterpoints demand robust points in the first place.
wts - well I did think thrice before sticking my head above the parapet on this one I admit. My area of expertise is flying training as you rightly point out. I make no claims to knowledge about the airline industry other than it seems to me NOBODY knows how it works really and what is around the next corner is a complete mystery to everyone from the BA Board to the baggage handlers.
I was just passing on a very brief summary of some points commonly heard in my network of friends and colleagues.
Don't you think the possibility of Irish economic bust is relevant to Ryan? Do you not think Easys fleet procurement is a factor worthy of consideration?
I'm not looking to upset anyone - I hope we can all just talk about these things like grown ups without recourse to childish My Train Set Is Better Than Yours syndrome breaking out.
Cheers,
WWW
I was just passing on a very brief summary of some points commonly heard in my network of friends and colleagues.
Don't you think the possibility of Irish economic bust is relevant to Ryan? Do you not think Easys fleet procurement is a factor worthy of consideration?
I'm not looking to upset anyone - I hope we can all just talk about these things like grown ups without recourse to childish My Train Set Is Better Than Yours syndrome breaking out.
Cheers,
WWW
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think its true to say in most things mechanical we would all rather purchase something brand new, with no previous owners, options package selected by yourself and with some sort of manufacturers warrenty. If you then get a hefty discount from the manufacturer for big orders as well as guarenteeing delivery to match your expansion plans ( don't have to lease in a/c and crews from another company at high rates whilst you wait for appropriate a/c to come on the market )i think fleet choice at EZY makes a huge amount of sense. At least they don't have to advertise for suitable a/c in Flight!
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NB's right..EZY made the right plan by changing early to a new type when the 733 stopped production...GO's B733 are a bag of [email protected] wonderful airlines like 'Balkan' !!! Just ask anyone about G-IGOT !!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gypsy,
At an exercise price of around 10p, I am betting the Go share options will net much more for everyone concerned (relative to the easyJet and Ryanair schemes).
Projected takings are much higher than those you quote.
At an exercise price of around 10p, I am betting the Go share options will net much more for everyone concerned (relative to the easyJet and Ryanair schemes).
Projected takings are much higher than those you quote.
Yep, if the GO share options when sold are worth even half of that which has been suggested, the proceeds will make easyJet's £30K inducement look like zilch and compensate many times over for the tuck shop visits to Tesco's on the way to StarShip command HQ 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lab man - don't want to get into a 'my share options are worth more than yours' ding dong. It was just that your earlier post seemed to suggest that the IPO at GO was something new and that pilots in Easy and Ryan hadn't had such benefits.
Truth is that with a recession coming, the markets not performing well (is it a good time for an IPO?) and all the other little surprises that make aviation so interesting, none of us should be counting our eggs too soon.
Truth is that with a recession coming, the markets not performing well (is it a good time for an IPO?) and all the other little surprises that make aviation so interesting, none of us should be counting our eggs too soon.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: DUB
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LabyrinthMan- GO's share options have a lot to do if they are to match the gains made by FR pilots.
Since the Ryanair IPO in 1997 the value of shares has risen by over 800%.
Here’s a summary of what pilots have gained to date and applies equally to both Captains and Co-Pilots:
(1) FLOTATION SHARES: The 1997 flotation shares are worth almost £IR100,000 to Ryanair pilots
PLUS
(2) THE 5 YEAR DEAL: The £IR100,000 worth of share options issued in December 2000 as part of the recent five year pay deal have increased by £IR25,000 approx.
PLUS
(3) ANNUAL SHARE OPTION PLAN: Ryanair has granted £IR10,000 worth of share options in each of the past 4yrs (as profits have exceeded the 20% growth target) and pilots are now sitting on a gain of almost £IR60,000 from this scheme
In total a Pilot with Ryanair who has held onto all shares and options has a gain in just 4 years of almost £IR200,000
So it seems there's share options and there's Ryanair share options.
Since the Ryanair IPO in 1997 the value of shares has risen by over 800%.
Here’s a summary of what pilots have gained to date and applies equally to both Captains and Co-Pilots:
(1) FLOTATION SHARES: The 1997 flotation shares are worth almost £IR100,000 to Ryanair pilots
PLUS
(2) THE 5 YEAR DEAL: The £IR100,000 worth of share options issued in December 2000 as part of the recent five year pay deal have increased by £IR25,000 approx.
PLUS
(3) ANNUAL SHARE OPTION PLAN: Ryanair has granted £IR10,000 worth of share options in each of the past 4yrs (as profits have exceeded the 20% growth target) and pilots are now sitting on a gain of almost £IR60,000 from this scheme
In total a Pilot with Ryanair who has held onto all shares and options has a gain in just 4 years of almost £IR200,000
So it seems there's share options and there's Ryanair share options.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I never suggested that Go's plan would match any gains already made by existing Ryanair or EasyJet pilots. They've made loads; congratulations!
The original question had to do with joining the companies now. And as Go is currently the only airline of the list in the original question issuing options prior to IPO, the upside for new joiners of Go is better than future new joiners at FR or EZ.
The original question had to do with joining the companies now. And as Go is currently the only airline of the list in the original question issuing options prior to IPO, the upside for new joiners of Go is better than future new joiners at FR or EZ.