How many union reps get into management

[Barry McDougal]

Interested to hear experiences from various people from different airlines on this issue. In the US some unions have it written in stone,as a union rep you can not go into management! No in the uk though.
There are instances where there may/has been a conflict of interest in the past,a balpa rep has entered management. There seems to be nothing to stop it happening,indeed the 'platform' a rep has 'highlights' their qualities and makes them more marketable in some instances. If this loophole exists,does it serve the members' best interests? Who is to say that all the reps have chosen to be 'only reps' and serve the pilot community,with no intentions of climbing the ladder into management Agreed most will have no intention,but there are always a few,and potentially it can be very damaging to any pilot workforce.

[Merlinrabbi]

Most of SIA's management comes from ALPA-Singapore.

[unablereqnavperf]

Big problem with this in SAA when the poacher turned gate keeper!

[Buster Hyman]

Only ever saw one Union rep (TWU) turn down all the "offerings" & subsequent promotions ay AN...stuck to his principles & really nailed some very inefficient management to the wall!

All for nowt!

[Barry McDougal]

So why is it that our american colleagues are switched on to this,yet other unions are not prepared to take a stance. It is clear to me that some individuals will utilise this method to enter management,using their union as a stepping stone, while 'screwing' their colleagues in the process. All for what? Well personal goals,ambitions,power and lifestyle. It gets a bit worrying when union reps publicly applaud managers and critisise the aspirations of the troops.
Why can't unions put a stop to this? Have a clause that prevents this?

[eagle21]

It appears that in recent times this is happening more and more. How can there be no conflict of interest?

[blind pew]

We had one in BEA early 70s ..ex fleet air arm iirc..bit of a useless operator as when I first flew with him for three sectors wouldn’t let me touch anything. Come election time he was going to sort our pay out..had to do 2 years second officer, two years acting first officer before we got on the industry normal salary scale. Negotiated nothing for our group then resigned and became deputy flight manager. Was sent to Coventry by one and all. Had a couple of good reps after him.

Seem to remember that the guy who ran BA came from AERLINGUS pilot’s union.

[42psi]

It's been happening for years....

Willie Walsh was an IALPA rep.

[oldkarim]

In many italian airlines is necessary requirements lol

[Scagrams]

At least one case fairly recently (5ish years) from SNPL to AF.

[FullWings]

I think it depends entirely on the person. You can work 100% on behalf of Union members and then go and work 100% for an airline; the airline work does not negate what was done before. In some ways having been on both sides helps both sides - there is understanding of the processes and it cuts out quite a lot of the BS. Willie Walsh is an example: he was firm but fair and when BA38 landed short at LHR he was the first person to stand up and say they did a very good job. Someone without his pilot/union experience would likely have been very hesitant to do this.

For someone who is technically and personally very competent with maybe a side order of ambition, there is nowhere to go once you’ve got into the upper echelons of a union, so naturally they gravitate towards the potentially more rewarding jobs in management. That’s fine by me as I would rather have them working me for a certain period then moving on to greater things than not at all.

[conanthelibrarian]

I'm pretty sure ours were already "management candidates" when they were BALPA reps.

[bafanguy]

Perhaps one of the best US examples of a line pilot moving into management is Charlie Dolson from Delta. He was one of the founders of ALPA in the 1930s and ended up being the CEO. That's a pretty big jump. Delta has a long history of ALPA pilots moving into management:

https://www.gaaviationhalloffame.com...harles-dolson/

[Twitterati]

This is not just an aviation thing in the U.K.

[Starzinger]

This is the market! The real question, and the consequent rhetorical answer, is: how many union representatives have made a political career? Many, and even at very high levels. After all, if you want to have control over the base, you have to feed the intermediary.

[Killaroo]

Originally Posted by FullWings

In some ways having been on both sides helps both sides - there is understanding of the processes and it cuts out quite a lot of the BS.

There is also an intimate knowledge of exactly how far the knife blade can be pushed into your ex-colleagues backs before they react violently.
That's a handy skill to impress your Management colleagues.

By the way, on the subject of Mr.Walsh - he was an EI Cadet in 1979, and before his training in OATS ended the company realised they didn't need him anymore, due to the latest downturn. He was the most junior on the course, so last in first out etc.
The pilots union (IALPA) bent over backwards and made substantial working and salary concessions to encourage the company to finish his groups flight training. He was very active in the Union after that, some would say to protect his own fully exposed ar5e. His nickname was Boxcar Willy.
Within a few years he was climbing the greasy pole to Management level, where he proceeded to shaft the men and women who had sacrificed so much to stop him being turfed onto the street in '79. Hindsight is a bugger.

He never wanted to be a pilot anyway. He said so on the national radio station when interviewed at length about how he came to be CEO of EI. To paraphrase - "I only attended the interviews for practice. Never really aspired to it. Flying is boring. Management is where the fun is".
The final twist of the knife....

[blind pew]

Lord Tebbit..started out as national service pilot - into BOAC then Balpa and was the driving force that grounded the first 747 for nearly two years (wide bodied pay scale)..became MP and was Maggie Thatcher’s right hand man until the IRA Brighton bombing which left his wife in a wheelchair and he gave up politics to care for her.
Never met the bloke but have never heard anything bad about him unlike the other useless articles I came across who did the Balpa - BEA management route.

[student88]

When I was at easyJet I had a union rep give me advice which suited the company policy, only for him to later join management at our base. His advice cost me the best part of £5,000.

So yeah I reckon it happens quite a lot.

[Lordflasheart]

Any one else made ermine ?

...
IIRC - The later-to-become a Noble Lord turned ‘is coat over a weekend in the early ‘70s.
Via a number of exalted positions, he is still pulling in £360 per diem for showing ‘is face.
...
LFH

[Kraftstoffvondesibel]

I am one that has switched from union to management, albeit not in aviation. So unions are slightly different things in different countries. In my world there is an understanding that the relationship between owners and unions is about checks and balances. A good company needs both, a company doesn't simply exist to make money for shareholders, but also to keep employees securely and longterm employed at a reasonable wage. If a company can't do that, it is bankrupt.
Yes we fight, both ways, we disagree about wages, conditions, strategy, terminations, but both sides (mostly) recognises this is a symbiosis. You are siamese twins sharing vital organs. One side dies, other one dies.
Switching sides works mostly just fine, you take on different responsibilities, but common survival is still the goal.
I know the US is completely different.