Singapore sets first A380 pay rates
Join Date: Aug 1999
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That is true longarm, apart from the majority of F/O's who operate these types, who are not on Scale B/fatboys pay.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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The unfair bit in Monarch is that you could be in the Fat Boys pay having chosen not to fly the wide bodies. Those guys should not be given the wide body money since they have decided not to do long haul.
Besides as you guys know in MON only the Captains are getting the wide body bonus (because the seniority list).
Besides as you guys know in MON only the Captains are getting the wide body bonus (because the seniority list).
Mach 3
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Gengis,
You're entitled to disagree....
Your argument is really a defence of seniority.
Thats fine.
But I don't know anyone who has moved onto a longhaul fleet because they thought their life would be harder if they did?
More days off, better quality of life, nicer destinations, better hotels, Cat 3B a/c, Triple GPS, EVS, HUD....
These are the things I hear justifying the converse argument advanced in favour of those exciting 12hr overnight sectors.
We all know that LHS occupants would like everyday CAVOK with 5 kts on the nose and a Cat 3 ILS to help us out...
Its the "inexperienced" (in your book) guys and gals flying "sheds" into non-precision airfields, 6 times a day, moving a lot more passengers (per day) than a 744 pilot who get my vote for the "most deserving of their money" accolade.
After all, if they're simultaneously inexperienced and still pulling it off, all the more credit to them!
But thats just me....
Parabellum,
What?????
More so than flying into Anchorage on a bitter cold day everyday four times a day?
The radiation at FL450 has got to you mate!
I disagree. That's where you "gain" all that "hard earned" experience before moving on to something larger that flies longer.... Those there already have this "hard earned" experience you refer to, and are hence paid accordingly for it
Your argument is really a defence of seniority.
Thats fine.
But I don't know anyone who has moved onto a longhaul fleet because they thought their life would be harder if they did?
More days off, better quality of life, nicer destinations, better hotels, Cat 3B a/c, Triple GPS, EVS, HUD....
These are the things I hear justifying the converse argument advanced in favour of those exciting 12hr overnight sectors.
We all know that LHS occupants would like everyday CAVOK with 5 kts on the nose and a Cat 3 ILS to help us out...
Its the "inexperienced" (in your book) guys and gals flying "sheds" into non-precision airfields, 6 times a day, moving a lot more passengers (per day) than a 744 pilot who get my vote for the "most deserving of their money" accolade.
After all, if they're simultaneously inexperienced and still pulling it off, all the more credit to them!
But thats just me....
Parabellum,
Well said Gengis, going from a lovely tropical day in Durban to a bitter cold day in Anchorage within the same week requires concentration.
More so than flying into Anchorage on a bitter cold day everyday four times a day?
The radiation at FL450 has got to you mate!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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SR71 - I think you may have missed my point. Both Durban and Anchorage have their problems but they are totally different as are many airfields that the long haul pilot will visit only a couple of time a month and needs to keep himself on the ball for all the different variations that he may encounter. Short haul is good for brushing up handling and getting to know places extremely well, often all under the same weather environment.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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I guess you would rather make the same salary the rest of your career - right? What a lame response. Pilots do aspire to earning more over their careers. Using a per-seat metric to gauge a salary scheme would work for me (salary greater when you fly more seats). Your way of thinking is way too old-school.......... Don't live in the past!
Mach 3
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Parabellum,
Like you say, the debate on LH pay is an interesting one...
I prefer to look at it this way. No doubt, as you allude to, you did when you flew the 73!
Lets assume your 744 pilot has 20 yrs experience on the fleet, flying 10 sectors/month (by all accounts that would be high so my friends tell me), with an average crew complement of 3.
That makes 800 approaches per crew member over 20 years.
In the last 3 weeks I have flown 56 sectors. No doubt this will not continue, but if it did, I make that 970 sectors/approaches this year, of which, presumably, I'll be PF for half.
So in less than 2 years my PF exposure to a CFIT incident/accident is greater than that of a 744 pilot who has been on the fleet for 20 years. Which means in 4 years, I'll have more exposure to potential CFIT than a 744 veteran with 40 years on type!
In addition, they neither spend more time in the seat than me (we're all flying ~900hrs/year these days), nor do they transport more passengers per day than me...
About the only thing they do more of, is cross multiple time zones, log time in the bunk and be away from home!
And their autopilot(s) have a rudder channel!
Whilst I am quite happy to accept I may represent a majority of one, elevated LH pay is a legacy of the past (ref. TooFast), which evolved long before the days of deregulation, Southwest, MOL, Stelios and the LOCO.
Its a shame it persists because it is yet another restriction on the freedom of employee movement within our industry.
The fact that Southwest pilots (and ostensibly Ryanair pilots if you've got the right contract?) are some of the best paid pilots around lends a credence to my argument perhaps?
And as for the differences in weather (or ATC for that matter) requiring an elevated level of concentration, Europe (my sphere of reference) is a big place.
Scandanavian weather isn't that far removed from Alaskan weather, central European weather mirrors some aspects of continental American weather, and so, and so forth....
Onwards and upwards.
Like you say, the debate on LH pay is an interesting one...
I prefer to look at it this way. No doubt, as you allude to, you did when you flew the 73!
Lets assume your 744 pilot has 20 yrs experience on the fleet, flying 10 sectors/month (by all accounts that would be high so my friends tell me), with an average crew complement of 3.
That makes 800 approaches per crew member over 20 years.
In the last 3 weeks I have flown 56 sectors. No doubt this will not continue, but if it did, I make that 970 sectors/approaches this year, of which, presumably, I'll be PF for half.
So in less than 2 years my PF exposure to a CFIT incident/accident is greater than that of a 744 pilot who has been on the fleet for 20 years. Which means in 4 years, I'll have more exposure to potential CFIT than a 744 veteran with 40 years on type!
In addition, they neither spend more time in the seat than me (we're all flying ~900hrs/year these days), nor do they transport more passengers per day than me...
About the only thing they do more of, is cross multiple time zones, log time in the bunk and be away from home!
And their autopilot(s) have a rudder channel!
Whilst I am quite happy to accept I may represent a majority of one, elevated LH pay is a legacy of the past (ref. TooFast), which evolved long before the days of deregulation, Southwest, MOL, Stelios and the LOCO.
Its a shame it persists because it is yet another restriction on the freedom of employee movement within our industry.
The fact that Southwest pilots (and ostensibly Ryanair pilots if you've got the right contract?) are some of the best paid pilots around lends a credence to my argument perhaps?
And as for the differences in weather (or ATC for that matter) requiring an elevated level of concentration, Europe (my sphere of reference) is a big place.
Scandanavian weather isn't that far removed from Alaskan weather, central European weather mirrors some aspects of continental American weather, and so, and so forth....
Onwards and upwards.
This may have nothing to do with the business over there in Singapore, but many very young pilots will do anything to fly a jet-no matter how insultingly meager the salary. Whether employed honestly or after crossing a pilot picket line (i.e. Continental in '83-'84 or at Eastern).
Imagine the looks from the young ladies when they realize that the young stud actually does fly jets...he then just might get lucky.
In this city, some are so impressed with themselves (hoping to forget their roots...) that they volunteer their annual salary-during the first date-in order to further impress the babes.
Imagine the looks from the young ladies when they realize that the young stud actually does fly jets...he then just might get lucky.
In this city, some are so impressed with themselves (hoping to forget their roots...) that they volunteer their annual salary-during the first date-in order to further impress the babes.
