americans at cityjet
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americans at cityjet
how come the IAA lets americans fly for cityjet, so allowing american pilots( nothing against american pilots ) take european jobs away from european pilots and yet the american government (FAA) wont let europeans do the same in the states. smacks of backhanders somewhere. it wouldnt happan in air france would it.JAR my a?2e
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My friend I don't want to be flip or arguementative, but I must ask are you serious?! There are a lot of foreign born pilots flying for US carriers, major airlines and regionals alike! For that matter Atlas air has a whole slew of JAA pilots flying N registered A/C as Capts!!
Seriously, how hard is it to get a converted rating?! JAA to FAA seems a much easier time than FAA to JAA.
Not trying to flame or troll just curious as to the issue?
Seriously, how hard is it to get a converted rating?! JAA to FAA seems a much easier time than FAA to JAA.
Not trying to flame or troll just curious as to the issue?
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Its very simple. SUPPLY & DEMAND. Lots of pilots believe that airlines OWE them a job because they have done the training. Airlines are a BUSINESS not a CLUB! There are no fair rules. They take experianced FAA guys who have thousands of hrs because they speak english, have the experiance, and dont need to be trained. It makes PERFECT sense from a business point of view if you happen to own an airline. ANY JAA country can validate an ICAO license, its not just FAA, Transport Canada, CASA...its any recognised (mainly english speaking ICAO country). The icleandics do it constantly for Air Atlanta, they are JAA too. By the way JAA is toss because the non-english EU countries will not hires brits/paddies unless they are fluent in their language (even though ICAO language is english) and even then it is rare! SO, lets face it, UK hires everyone from the EU because they like to be politically correct, while the french and germans laugh at them. We irish would rather see a paddy in the cockpit of course, but a yank, cannuck, saffir, auzzie, kiwi is more than acceptable if he/she has the airline experiance and doesnt need to be trainned. Is it fair on johnny local...no, but life is not fair. By the way, I got a job in the States first time round and NOBODY said a thing that i was taking a job away from the locals! Its just not an issue. Im not a citizen, merely a greencard holder.
I wonder if you would be so uppity if a hong kong citizen who flew for cathay or dragon air got or say a local from dubai who flew for emirites got a contract/validation...doubt it! I know they take plenty of forgeiners, so why shouldnt we????? Or could it be that deep down you just dont like americans?
The FAA does not need to validate ICAO licenses because there are thousands of pilots here from all over the world. The SUPPLY far exceeds the Demand, therefore no need to change anything...its really very simple. Although there is a new rule with transport canada where each side (US or Canada) need only do the Air Law portion of their respective countries ATP/L and a new one is issued, based on that (an faa atp or a transpot canada ATPL).
I wonder if you would be so uppity if a hong kong citizen who flew for cathay or dragon air got or say a local from dubai who flew for emirites got a contract/validation...doubt it! I know they take plenty of forgeiners, so why shouldnt we????? Or could it be that deep down you just dont like americans?
The FAA does not need to validate ICAO licenses because there are thousands of pilots here from all over the world. The SUPPLY far exceeds the Demand, therefore no need to change anything...its really very simple. Although there is a new rule with transport canada where each side (US or Canada) need only do the Air Law portion of their respective countries ATP/L and a new one is issued, based on that (an faa atp or a transpot canada ATPL).
Seriously, how hard is it to get a converted rating?! JAA to FAA seems a much easier time than FAA to JAA.
This is because It's generally easier to get an FAA licence. To covert mine, for the exams, all I had to do was sit in front of a computer and answer a number of questions for which I had previously seen the answers. It's a bit different in JAR land.
This is because It's generally easier to get an FAA licence. To covert mine, for the exams, all I had to do was sit in front of a computer and answer a number of questions for which I had previously seen the answers. It's a bit different in JAR land.
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its the airline experience that counts, not the type of license. And airline training is damn tough in any first word country let alone the crowded airspace in the states with the biggest airports and heavest traffic. It not as if some bloke is turning up with a bare license and getting a job. 
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"JAA is toss because the non-english EU countries will not hires brits/paddies unless they are fluent in their language (even though ICAO language is english) and even then it is rare! SO, lets face it, UK hires everyone from the EU because they like to be politically correct, while the french and germans laugh at them"
Where is written that english is the ICAO/OACI language ?
If the english speaker are not employed in the no english speaking countries,is not because pilots are americans , brits, kiwis or ozzies, but because they don t speak the local language.
I am not a native english speaker, ( some says i have a rubbish english) and can t take a job in Germany.
So , in JAA land you need to speak, for almost , the local language to get the job.
In contrast in the USA, you need to be resident (green card holder) to have the right to work. It is not the same situation as the US pilots in Cityjet.
Where is written that english is the ICAO/OACI language ?
If the english speaker are not employed in the no english speaking countries,is not because pilots are americans , brits, kiwis or ozzies, but because they don t speak the local language.
I am not a native english speaker, ( some says i have a rubbish english) and can t take a job in Germany.
So , in JAA land you need to speak, for almost , the local language to get the job.
In contrast in the USA, you need to be resident (green card holder) to have the right to work. It is not the same situation as the US pilots in Cityjet.
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English IS the official flying language....every pilot knows that
Its in ICAO.
that should not be the case! If you have a JAA license you should be able to work in any JAA country in the EU no matter what language you speak! that was supposed to be the point, but it never works for english speaking guys. Forgeiners can come and work in UK and irish airlines once they have a JAA license but the same wont happen if a brit or paddy goes to france or germany or italy I dont really care, those countires are just being protectionist, while we are stupid and politically correct. thats just the way the world is.
- thats a very childish and ignorant view of the way things work. You just hate americans but dont have the guts to admit it.
I notice you dont single out aussies or kiwis that work on validations...just americans. They reason non-americans or non-green card holders cant work in america as pilots is because they have soooo many pilots there they dont need any more. In ireland there are only some many ATR-42 type rated pilots and even fewer with a few thousands hrs of experiance...even less on the BAe-146. Most kids get their JAA type rating on a 737 or A320. Again....supply and demand. DO you understand yet?
Its in ICAO.
So , in JAA land you need to speak, for almost , the local language to get the job
I dont really care, those countires are just being protectionist, while we are stupid and politically correct. thats just the way the world is.
my point is non americans have to get a green card to work there, but the americans can just come over with their EXPERIENCE. typical american government , whats good for us in america is also good for americans all over the world.
I notice you dont single out aussies or kiwis that work on validations...just americans. They reason non-americans or non-green card holders cant work in america as pilots is because they have soooo many pilots there they dont need any more. In ireland there are only some many ATR-42 type rated pilots and even fewer with a few thousands hrs of experiance...even less on the BAe-146. Most kids get their JAA type rating on a 737 or A320. Again....supply and demand. DO you understand yet?
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A good friend of mine is english and he is flying in Portugal, but he speaks portuguese You just need to speak the local language.
And no english is not the OACI language
RD
And no english is not the OACI language
RD
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why not look at the real source of the matter??
that is the IAA!!! at least in this thread's subject matter.
do you think the americans are forcing the IAA to do something they don't want to do?
it may actually be more a matter of american aviation being in the ****es for so long, (president carter at the helm) that american pilots have been forced to look all over the world for jobs for quite some time now and are desparate enough to move further than other european pilots. in the US, if you don't work, it isn't long before you start sleeping outside under the trees. we don't have the social protection that most european countries have. so we soon get to the point to where we have to fly anywhere we can find a job.
but the fact is, the IAA, in this case, chooses to grant the validations.
i'm an american, and i have found it difficult to get a decent paying job in the US myself!!!
now that i'm in the UK, i seldom fly with UK first officers!!! funny that!!!
and the gaggle of brazilian pilots that you will now find everywhere---
when i was in korea, there were loads of mexican pilots flying for asiana!!!!
when i was in belgium, there were germans, english, irish, aussies, scots--the lot!!! and that is when they invented the JAA licence!!!
so once again, this thread is evidence of another short-sighted pilot, who has hit some hard times, and yet will not look far enough back in recent history to see that this difficulty is not new at all.
but after all is said and done, it is the respective country's Aviation Authority, and the individual companies.
not the language, nor the pilots.
do you think the americans are forcing the IAA to do something they don't want to do?
it may actually be more a matter of american aviation being in the ****es for so long, (president carter at the helm) that american pilots have been forced to look all over the world for jobs for quite some time now and are desparate enough to move further than other european pilots. in the US, if you don't work, it isn't long before you start sleeping outside under the trees. we don't have the social protection that most european countries have. so we soon get to the point to where we have to fly anywhere we can find a job.
but the fact is, the IAA, in this case, chooses to grant the validations.
i'm an american, and i have found it difficult to get a decent paying job in the US myself!!!
now that i'm in the UK, i seldom fly with UK first officers!!! funny that!!!
and the gaggle of brazilian pilots that you will now find everywhere---
when i was in korea, there were loads of mexican pilots flying for asiana!!!!
when i was in belgium, there were germans, english, irish, aussies, scots--the lot!!! and that is when they invented the JAA licence!!!
so once again, this thread is evidence of another short-sighted pilot, who has hit some hard times, and yet will not look far enough back in recent history to see that this difficulty is not new at all.
but after all is said and done, it is the respective country's Aviation Authority, and the individual companies.
not the language, nor the pilots.
Last edited by stator vane; 6th May 2007 at 18:40.
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A good friend of mine is english and he is flying in Portugal, but he speaks portuguese You just need to speak the local language.
And no english is not the OACI language
And no english is not the OACI language
And no you are wrong my friend, english IS the ICAO language. How do you not know this??? I thought you were a pilot? Why do you think asian conutries force all their pilots to learn english. Why do you think german pilots etc etc have to learn english to fly. Maybe things are a bit different down in old portugal. But look it up in a book or even google it, English is most definately the official flying language.
Nobody in here blames the US pilot but the Irish authority and gvnt to allow that
riiiiiight!......as opposed to iceland who validates forgein licenses? Dubai? Hong Kong? India? china, korea, many asian countries etc etc. Do you know anything about flying or are u just a disgruntled wannabe who cant get a job?
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Don't get wound up guys our good friend chlong is on the long hard road to getting that first job. It will take him some time but he will soon realise that the only person stopping him from getting that job is himself. It certainly isn't any Americans at Cityjet nor Irish at BA nor Aussies/kiwis at Cathay or any other combination you could come up with.
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cork lad
The languages for ICAO are English, French, Spanish and Russian, suggest you look at www.icao.int. All ICAO docs are published in all 4.
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The languages for ICAO are English, French, Spanish and Russian, suggest you look at www.icao.int. All ICAO docs are published in all 4
For example. ATC can speak his native language to native pilots but he MUST be able to speak ENGLISH to ALL pilots. Thats is in the ICAO regs!
Similarly, all pilots who fly internationally must be able to speak ENGLISH to communicate to ATC but DO NOT have to speak the native tounge of the country that the ATC happens to be located in (unless english is the native tounge...eg new zealand). Therefore, logically speaking, english is indeed the international flying language. It may take a few seconds for it to sink in, but im sure you'll get it eventually
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"riiiiiight!......as opposed to iceland who validates forgein licenses? Dubai? Hong Kong? India? china, korea, many asian countries etc etc. Do you know anything about flying or are u just a disgruntled wannabe who cant get a job?"
No my friend I am employed, by the way down here in Portugal the ATC talk to you in english
Not so long time ago, about 15 years, in the ex USSR (and the communists country in Europe) , the ATC spoke russian to the pilots.
For this reason there is not an unique language in the OACI.Perhaps in 50 years from now the pilots ll talk chinese.
No my friend I am employed, by the way down here in Portugal the ATC talk to you in english
Not so long time ago, about 15 years, in the ex USSR (and the communists country in Europe) , the ATC spoke russian to the pilots.
For this reason there is not an unique language in the OACI.Perhaps in 50 years from now the pilots ll talk chinese.
Last edited by rduarte; 7th May 2007 at 11:37.
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"so its even worse than we thought. what hope have the rest of us europeans if the irish aviation authority are allowed to get away with this. where is JAA when you need them. this is a scandal that should be exposed. maybe some paper will take this up. wouldnt mind if there was a resiprical agreement but no the american government dictating again. so as well as taking most of our training money they now take our jobs as well."
Did somebody put a gun to your head and make the U.S. "take your trainig money"?
Did somebody put a gun to your head and make the U.S. "take your trainig money"?
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No my friend I am employed, by the way down there in Portugal the ATC talk to you in english
Not so long time ago, about 15 years, in the ex USSR (and the communists country in Europe) , the ATC spoke russian to the pilots.
For this reason there is not an unique language in the OACI.Perhaps in 50 years from now the pilots ll talk chinese.
Not so long time ago, about 15 years, in the ex USSR (and the communists country in Europe) , the ATC spoke russian to the pilots.
For this reason there is not an unique language in the OACI.Perhaps in 50 years from now the pilots ll talk chinese.
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Americans at City Jet
We seem to have lost sight of Ryanair. Thankfully we have a ready supply of type rated people well versed in the busiest airspace in the world, aka North America.
And yes, l am taking the pee.
As we all know, there is no commercial pressure in the world of aviation.
And yes, l am taking the pee.
As we all know, there is no commercial pressure in the world of aviation.