Water past security?
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: Colchester, Essex. UK
Water past security?
Sirs,
(heres' one for the union reps out there!)
I have been reading with disgust the attitude taken by security to those of you in charge of aircraft (both ground and air crew).
I find it incredulous that you can be trusted with driving a multi-million (pick your currency of choice) aircraft, with several hundred passengers in the back (as close to your life in their hands as I've ever seen), but are not trusted to look after a bottle of water. Also, from some of the posts I've seen, your employer is not providing you with potable water (bottled where it is not considered safe to drinking the water carried on board) after security.
I have just been studying the "Health and Safety at work act" and wonder if anyone has taken their employer to task under the "The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992", which clearly states (Cut and pasted below) :
"Drinking water
22.—(1) An adequate supply of wholesome drinking water shall be provided for all persons at work in the workplace.
(2) Every supply of drinking water required by paragraph (1) shall—
(a) be readily accessible at suitable places; and
(b) be conspicuously marked by an appropriate sign where necessary for reasons of health or safety.
(3) Where a supply of drinking water is required by paragraph (1), there shall also be provided a sufficient number of suitable cups or other drinking vessels unless the supply of drinking water is in a jet from which persons can drink easily.”
This legislation does not appear to apply on-board aircraft, but would appear to apply right up to the aircraft door (i.e. your employer must give you access to “wholesome drinking water” right up to the aircraft door, even after security).
It would depend on the definition of “suitable places”, obviously, it would be impractical to provide a supply of water everywhere, but it would not be unreasonable to ask for a "suitable and sufficient" supply to be placed immediately AFTER security, (or other designated places so it is readily accessible).
Following on from that, it would not be unreasonable to permit you to fill a bottle to take a limited supply around with you post security. i.e. you would probably be able to fill your own empty bottles after security (e.g. from a water fountain, or bottle fed cooler) and take them onto the aircraft.
Now if you cannot take you own past security, and the employer is not providing any between security and the aircraft door, then it appears to me to be in breach of UK law.
The document quoted can be found at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923004_en_2.htm
Any thoughts?
(heres' one for the union reps out there!)
I have been reading with disgust the attitude taken by security to those of you in charge of aircraft (both ground and air crew).
I find it incredulous that you can be trusted with driving a multi-million (pick your currency of choice) aircraft, with several hundred passengers in the back (as close to your life in their hands as I've ever seen), but are not trusted to look after a bottle of water. Also, from some of the posts I've seen, your employer is not providing you with potable water (bottled where it is not considered safe to drinking the water carried on board) after security.
I have just been studying the "Health and Safety at work act" and wonder if anyone has taken their employer to task under the "The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992", which clearly states (Cut and pasted below) :
"Drinking water
22.—(1) An adequate supply of wholesome drinking water shall be provided for all persons at work in the workplace.
(2) Every supply of drinking water required by paragraph (1) shall—
(a) be readily accessible at suitable places; and
(b) be conspicuously marked by an appropriate sign where necessary for reasons of health or safety.
(3) Where a supply of drinking water is required by paragraph (1), there shall also be provided a sufficient number of suitable cups or other drinking vessels unless the supply of drinking water is in a jet from which persons can drink easily.”
This legislation does not appear to apply on-board aircraft, but would appear to apply right up to the aircraft door (i.e. your employer must give you access to “wholesome drinking water” right up to the aircraft door, even after security).
It would depend on the definition of “suitable places”, obviously, it would be impractical to provide a supply of water everywhere, but it would not be unreasonable to ask for a "suitable and sufficient" supply to be placed immediately AFTER security, (or other designated places so it is readily accessible).
Following on from that, it would not be unreasonable to permit you to fill a bottle to take a limited supply around with you post security. i.e. you would probably be able to fill your own empty bottles after security (e.g. from a water fountain, or bottle fed cooler) and take them onto the aircraft.
Now if you cannot take you own past security, and the employer is not providing any between security and the aircraft door, then it appears to me to be in breach of UK law.
The document quoted can be found at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19923004_en_2.htm
Any thoughts?
Last edited by drichard; 18th April 2007 at 10:22. Reason: Spelling erors!
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 24
From: England
I have just been studying the "Health and Safety at work act" and wonder if anyone has taken their employer to task under the "The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992", which clearly states (Cut and pasted below)
I bet there would be lawyers dieing for the opportunity to represent such cases. Especially where the working environment has unreasonable amounts of humidity, noise and working pressure.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 527
Likes: 72
From: Mycenae
Nice try but sections 5-12 and 14-25 of the The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 do not apply where the workplace is an aircraft.
If anyone was wondering this includes regulations on lighting, temperature control, ventilation, size of the working area, seating, the ability to clean windows safely.... all those things that those people in the office who dreamed up the new security rules take for granted in other words.
If anyone was wondering this includes regulations on lighting, temperature control, ventilation, size of the working area, seating, the ability to clean windows safely.... all those things that those people in the office who dreamed up the new security rules take for granted in other words.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Macclesfield
Water..................
As a fueller at MAN we are unable to get access to water once we are landside, as we are not allowed to take water through security..
I was starting to suffer on Sunday when the temp. on the apron reached 30.5 degrees and we were out for at least 2.5 hours with no access to drinking water.
In the past we have been told if we are becoimg dehydrated then return to base and take fluids on and if we delay customers then so be it, personnel safety MUST come first. So if the summer tempss. that we press are going on about come true, then there maybe fuelling delays all down to the fact we can't have water!!!!!
Madness for sure
I was starting to suffer on Sunday when the temp. on the apron reached 30.5 degrees and we were out for at least 2.5 hours with no access to drinking water.
In the past we have been told if we are becoimg dehydrated then return to base and take fluids on and if we delay customers then so be it, personnel safety MUST come first. So if the summer tempss. that we press are going on about come true, then there maybe fuelling delays all down to the fact we can't have water!!!!!
Madness for sure
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
Only last week when going through security, whilst I was having to put my bag through the x-ray, take my jacket, belt and shoes off, get frisked, then also have my bag opened and search did I notice an airport cleaner collect bottles of bleach, floor cleaners and various other cleaning products coming through the x-ray!!!
I know they have their jobs to do as much as we do but lets have some common sense.
A 1.5 litre bottle of water or bleach/cleaning products mixed in specific quantities which are more dangerous.
If a pilot wants to do damage to an aircraft he wont need explosives, wires, deternators, knifes or that ultimate weapon of mass distruction the bottle of water!! - he has two hands to fly the aircraft in whichever pitch attitude and direction he wants.
I know they have their jobs to do as much as we do but lets have some common sense.
A 1.5 litre bottle of water or bleach/cleaning products mixed in specific quantities which are more dangerous.
If a pilot wants to do damage to an aircraft he wont need explosives, wires, deternators, knifes or that ultimate weapon of mass distruction the bottle of water!! - he has two hands to fly the aircraft in whichever pitch attitude and direction he wants.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: Colchester, Essex. UK
You are dead right as to the regulations not applying to where the working environment is ON an aircraft, I am illustrating that it applies to areas past security but NOT on an aircraft. eg drivers, porters, fuellers, aircrew walking TO the aircraft etc etc etc.
The persons responsible for ENFORCING the HASAWA (and the associated legislation is the HSE) http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hsc14.htm#whoenforces
Perhaps a written/anaonymous complaint will result in a visit, with (hopefully) appropriate action being taken.
It is possible to file a complaint AGAINST the HSE if they fail to ensure the legislation is being enforced
The persons responsible for ENFORCING the HASAWA (and the associated legislation is the HSE) http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hsc14.htm#whoenforces
Perhaps a written/anaonymous complaint will result in a visit, with (hopefully) appropriate action being taken.
It is possible to file a complaint AGAINST the HSE if they fail to ensure the legislation is being enforced
Last edited by drichard; 18th April 2007 at 12:21. Reason: Added additional information
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 105
From: The Winchester
drichard
This whole subject just goes on and on and on and...sadly I feel superpilot has got it about right.
The Union Reps (UK anyhow) tell us they are working hard to resore sanity to security but don't appear to making any perceptable progress and when pressed for news appear to hide behind the "need to know" principle ( "You are not a Rep, we cannot tell you how our meetings with Dft/ Whitehall/, Transec etc are going"). I hope they are not simply having their tummies tickled but I am beginning to wonder. we have had nearly a year of this nonsense ex-UK and the only people who seem to have benefitted are the Airside shopping outlets who sell specially screened water
.
The Union Reps (UK anyhow) tell us they are working hard to resore sanity to security but don't appear to making any perceptable progress and when pressed for news appear to hide behind the "need to know" principle ( "You are not a Rep, we cannot tell you how our meetings with Dft/ Whitehall/, Transec etc are going"). I hope they are not simply having their tummies tickled but I am beginning to wonder. we have had nearly a year of this nonsense ex-UK and the only people who seem to have benefitted are the Airside shopping outlets who sell specially screened water
.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: North West, UK
As a fueller at MAN we are unable to get access to water once we are landside, as we are not allowed to take water through security..
I was starting to suffer on Sunday when the temp. on the apron reached 30.5 degrees and we were out for at least 2.5 hours with no access to drinking water.
In the past we have been told if we are becoimg dehydrated then return to base and take fluids on and if we delay customers then so be it, personnel safety MUST come first. So if the summer tempss. that we press are going on about come true, then there maybe fuelling delays all down to the fact we can't have water!!!!!
Madness for sure
I was starting to suffer on Sunday when the temp. on the apron reached 30.5 degrees and we were out for at least 2.5 hours with no access to drinking water.
In the past we have been told if we are becoimg dehydrated then return to base and take fluids on and if we delay customers then so be it, personnel safety MUST come first. So if the summer tempss. that we press are going on about come true, then there maybe fuelling delays all down to the fact we can't have water!!!!!
Madness for sure
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Macclesfield
Plus it now takes a long time ( upto 30 minutes ) to get back airside with your vehicle due to the new security measures at West Gate ?????????????????
just don't see the point and with the plan to move airside boundry as far as little west just shows the madness plus I will loose my work carpark as it would be Airside...We are now leaving earlier to get to flights just in case there is a queue at west gate...........
Please MAN see the light and sort it out before people are totally hacked (being polite) off
