Over time pay in EK...
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 43
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From: Al Safa PORK
Over time pay in EK...
Hello All!
In Emirates we get rostered into over time almost every month. Not on a voluntary basis. This is what you are rostered, so this is what you will fly.
The catch is that my hourly over time rate is 12% less than my normal rate based on 75 hrs per month, and as stated above, we rarely fly as little as 75 hrs.
What a great deal!
Does this happen anywhere else?
I have been in the company for over a decade and I find it a bit insulting to be honest.
Maybe this is why 94 pilots resigned in 2006?
Any comments?
/Pork
In Emirates we get rostered into over time almost every month. Not on a voluntary basis. This is what you are rostered, so this is what you will fly.
The catch is that my hourly over time rate is 12% less than my normal rate based on 75 hrs per month, and as stated above, we rarely fly as little as 75 hrs.
What a great deal!
Does this happen anywhere else?
I have been in the company for over a decade and I find it a bit insulting to be honest.
Maybe this is why 94 pilots resigned in 2006?
Any comments?
/Pork
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
P&B
Would you mind being a bit more specific as I'm considering EK as an option. How many hours / routes do you do. Can you spend your spare time back in UK? How long do you get between trips? How far ahead can you see on your roster?
Thanks WF
Would you mind being a bit more specific as I'm considering EK as an option. How many hours / routes do you do. Can you spend your spare time back in UK? How long do you get between trips? How far ahead can you see on your roster?
Thanks WF
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: No Fixed Abode
Whossat Forrus,
Have a look through the Middle East Forum on here, numerous threads about life, or lack of it, at EK.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259939
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=260406
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159022
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83895
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258087
I'm sure there are plenty more, these are just a few of the recent ones.
Have a look through the Middle East Forum on here, numerous threads about life, or lack of it, at EK.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=259939
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=260406
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159022
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83895
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258087
I'm sure there are plenty more, these are just a few of the recent ones.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: a seat on a fence
After manual manipulation by scheduling with the addition of 4 overnight turnaround flights to the Gulf and India prior to roster publication it became 97 hours with 8 days off.
I sure earnt my overtime that month but sadly there's no real personal choice in how much work we do.
80-85 hours a month would suit me well. But at the moment if I only do 90 I feel I've been let off lightly.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 2
From: In a far better place
Hello All!
In Emirates we get rostered into over time almost every month. Not on a voluntary basis. This is what you are rostered, so this is what you will fly.
The catch is that my hourly over time rate is 12% less than my normal rate based on 75 hrs per month, and as stated above, we rarely fly as little as 75 hrs.
What a great deal!
/Pork
In Emirates we get rostered into over time almost every month. Not on a voluntary basis. This is what you are rostered, so this is what you will fly.
The catch is that my hourly over time rate is 12% less than my normal rate based on 75 hrs per month, and as stated above, we rarely fly as little as 75 hrs.
What a great deal!
/Pork
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
From: Gulf playing Golf
Get away with????..... the only way to show discontent is to leave. There is no communication with management... They sent us the rules and we comply. Halas! But for those that hang on I believe good things will come. The latest payrise, which I am appreciate, is not going to change the fact that people are leaving.
Only two things will prevent that...lifestyle and a better pension system. i.e. doesnt have to be as golden as the Emerati nationals....just one that will be reasonable. After 7 years I have 70000 USD to my name...
Only two things will prevent that...lifestyle and a better pension system. i.e. doesnt have to be as golden as the Emerati nationals....just one that will be reasonable. After 7 years I have 70000 USD to my name...
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Al Safa PORK
Gents,
I am a captain on the 330/340.
Don't count on being able to spend much time in Europe outside your leave. Manual roster interventions give approximately 8-10 days off per month. This month I only have 2 consecutive days, from a total of 8 days off.
DD,
Yes night turns to India/Pak seem to creep into your roster almost every month, and these are most often manual inserts.
Total flying per month lies between 90-95 hrs as a norm.
WF,
Rosters are published around the 24th of every month
What really is hard is the mix of ultra,long,medium and short haul flying we do. You see we do all these types of flying, but we only get short haul rest patterns, and that is a killer literally speaking.
All the best,
Pork
I am a captain on the 330/340.
Don't count on being able to spend much time in Europe outside your leave. Manual roster interventions give approximately 8-10 days off per month. This month I only have 2 consecutive days, from a total of 8 days off.
DD,
Yes night turns to India/Pak seem to creep into your roster almost every month, and these are most often manual inserts.
Total flying per month lies between 90-95 hrs as a norm.
WF,
Rosters are published around the 24th of every month
What really is hard is the mix of ultra,long,medium and short haul flying we do. You see we do all these types of flying, but we only get short haul rest patterns, and that is a killer literally speaking.
All the best,
Pork
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: USA
Gents,
I am a captain on the 330/340.
Don't count on being able to spend much time in Europe outside your leave. Manual roster interventions give approximately 8-10 days off per month. This month I only have 2 consecutive days, from a total of 8 days off.
DD,
Yes night turns to India/Pak seem to creep into your roster almost every month, and these are most often manual inserts.
Total flying per month lies between 90-95 hrs as a norm.
WF,
Rosters are published around the 24th of every month
What really is hard is the mix of ultra,long,medium and short haul flying we do. You see we do all these types of flying, but we only get short haul rest patterns, and that is a killer literally speaking.
All the best,
Pork
I am a captain on the 330/340.
Don't count on being able to spend much time in Europe outside your leave. Manual roster interventions give approximately 8-10 days off per month. This month I only have 2 consecutive days, from a total of 8 days off.
DD,
Yes night turns to India/Pak seem to creep into your roster almost every month, and these are most often manual inserts.
Total flying per month lies between 90-95 hrs as a norm.
WF,
Rosters are published around the 24th of every month
What really is hard is the mix of ultra,long,medium and short haul flying we do. You see we do all these types of flying, but we only get short haul rest patterns, and that is a killer literally speaking.
All the best,
Pork
Pork,
Wow, that is terrible. That would seem rough. On the flip side, when you are out on the road, are the layovers nice? Do they put you up in nice hotels? Are there any trips that are more desirable? Do they give Kiwi and Auzzie guys those trips to Australia/New Zeland, or is it a mix usually? Any places you like to go personally? How about places you do not favor? Do you like the A340 beter than the A332s? Cheers.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Al Safa PORK
Desirable flights...
Hey DD,
Oh yes, there are certainly flights that are more desirable than others. That's one of the main problems in EK, everyone tends to bid for the same flights. Daytime flying to Europe, JFK, short MEL and SYD are all very popular sectors. Nobody wants to fly to India and Pakistan at night, not even the Indians and Pakistanis.
Hotels are generally of good to very good standard with only few exceptions. Layovers are too short, and allowances just barely covers expenditure for food. Our boss, Timmie, said to Flight International Magazine that we stay 3 days in JFK, but that is not quite true... The 777 direct flight has a 25 hr rest, and the 340 direct service has a 32 hr rest in NYC. Bear in mind that flying time to JFK is 14.40 outbound and 12.50 back, so rest time is a proper lifespan killer.
Finally, I would prefer the 340 to the 330 if I only flew long haul, but I don't. As stated before the mix of flying and too little rest time downroute and at base is killing our crews.
Cheers,
Pork
Oh yes, there are certainly flights that are more desirable than others. That's one of the main problems in EK, everyone tends to bid for the same flights. Daytime flying to Europe, JFK, short MEL and SYD are all very popular sectors. Nobody wants to fly to India and Pakistan at night, not even the Indians and Pakistanis.
Hotels are generally of good to very good standard with only few exceptions. Layovers are too short, and allowances just barely covers expenditure for food. Our boss, Timmie, said to Flight International Magazine that we stay 3 days in JFK, but that is not quite true... The 777 direct flight has a 25 hr rest, and the 340 direct service has a 32 hr rest in NYC. Bear in mind that flying time to JFK is 14.40 outbound and 12.50 back, so rest time is a proper lifespan killer.
Finally, I would prefer the 340 to the 330 if I only flew long haul, but I don't. As stated before the mix of flying and too little rest time downroute and at base is killing our crews.
Cheers,
Pork
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 5,552
Likes: 25
From: ME
Total flying per month lies between 90-95 hrs as a norm
Are they "block time" or "credit time"?
Are you credited with the total time for the flight, or is it prorated based upon single or double crew?
Around here, 1st 15 credit hours above minimum guarantee is 1hr per 1 hour. Above that its 1.5 hrs per hour.
Full credit is given for deadhead time, second officer time and simulator time.
Layover expenses are based upon block out of home base to block in to home base. They are also paid on sectors where the turnaround time is greater than 2 hours.
Full credit is given regardless of size of crew.
Mutt
Last edited by mutt; 24th January 2007 at 06:18.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 455
Likes: 0
From: Bit nosey aren't you
Block hours, no credit for sims, training etc. My last few rosters have averaged 125hrs credit. Our overnight allowances run to about 50GBP for a night stop at LHR. (I quite fancy the 2.67/hour on offer at BA)
Ghost
Ghost
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: The Beach
Block hours are exactly that, based on the scheduled flight time...we get paid for that....so if we hold for an hour after strong headwinds and it takes 16.5 hours we still get our overtime based on the 15 hours...very fair, and as Pork'n'brew has already said the overtime rate is already paid at a lower level than our nominal hourly rate...so win/win for the management.....
It must look great on a balance sheet...8 guys do 10 hours overtime each so they basically get the work of a free pilot without the cost of housing, medical ,ALT , schooling, etc etc etc. and they have the cheek to pay us less for the privilege of saving them money
We do get paid for dead heading,at the moment, but nothing for Sim, unless it's Sim support, and nothing for ground school, on the subject of Sim support...
Our fearless leader has announced in his latest monthly musings that Joe Bloggs who has done his 900 hours can now do up to 5 Sim supports and 5 Sim support standbys if he cannot fly...fantastic.
Layover allowance is based on the nominal price for a meal at the discounted rate given to the company, paid in cash at the layover station..
eg. Evening meal cost $40....discount of 50%..we get paid allowance of $20 dollars..seems reasonably fair
,,,but that is excluding taxes and any mandatory service charge...so your $40 dollar meal after discount will cost you $25 ie.. we dip into our own pocket to cover the cost..
Sick to the back teeth of the penny pinching bar stewards.
Our two head guys in flight ops both come from heavily unionised backgrounds...BA and Northwest, they have spent their management careers constantly fighting to get their pet ideas past BALPA or ALPA...It must be a huge relief for them to be able to put any hair brained scheme into action without any fear of someone tinkering with it or even flatly rejecting it as out of hand.Almost like a little holiday before they draw their fat pension, based somewhat on screwing you and me....but "what goes around comes around" I hope.
It must look great on a balance sheet...8 guys do 10 hours overtime each so they basically get the work of a free pilot without the cost of housing, medical ,ALT , schooling, etc etc etc. and they have the cheek to pay us less for the privilege of saving them money
We do get paid for dead heading,at the moment, but nothing for Sim, unless it's Sim support, and nothing for ground school, on the subject of Sim support...
Our fearless leader has announced in his latest monthly musings that Joe Bloggs who has done his 900 hours can now do up to 5 Sim supports and 5 Sim support standbys if he cannot fly...fantastic.
Layover allowance is based on the nominal price for a meal at the discounted rate given to the company, paid in cash at the layover station..
eg. Evening meal cost $40....discount of 50%..we get paid allowance of $20 dollars..seems reasonably fair
,,,but that is excluding taxes and any mandatory service charge...so your $40 dollar meal after discount will cost you $25 ie.. we dip into our own pocket to cover the cost..Sick to the back teeth of the penny pinching bar stewards.
Our two head guys in flight ops both come from heavily unionised backgrounds...BA and Northwest, they have spent their management careers constantly fighting to get their pet ideas past BALPA or ALPA...It must be a huge relief for them to be able to put any hair brained scheme into action without any fear of someone tinkering with it or even flatly rejecting it as out of hand.Almost like a little holiday before they draw their fat pension, based somewhat on screwing you and me....but "what goes around comes around" I hope.
