Flybe to aquire BA Connect. Crew thread. (No Spotters)-(Part 2)
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the flybe deal can be looked at from a culinary point of view
where does bacon come from...... a dead or dying pig........ apt
pigs aso give you pork which as we know goes off easily.... apt
off pork can give you the S***...................................... apt
to conclude the stumbling block in the whole recipy is that some dodgey pork has managed to give all those involved a dose of the runs which only a bright orange pill will cure
where does bacon come from...... a dead or dying pig........ apt
pigs aso give you pork which as we know goes off easily.... apt
off pork can give you the S***...................................... apt
to conclude the stumbling block in the whole recipy is that some dodgey pork has managed to give all those involved a dose of the runs which only a bright orange pill will cure
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No luck with the BALPA forum. Just as discussions were become more heated with regard to the RJ issue. Amazing isn't it, how existing type rated BACON pilots can be rejected in favour of 200 hr wundekinde from Jerez and Oxford.
Of course the cynical among us will point out that they cost half as much as existing BACON jet F/o's. In addition they are so grateful for a job, they'll think that the astronaut and his brother in law are the greatest people who ever lived, rather than the brain dead clusterf**ks we know them to be!
Still its good to see that BALPA are on case. NOT!
Of course the cynical among us will point out that they cost half as much as existing BACON jet F/o's. In addition they are so grateful for a job, they'll think that the astronaut and his brother in law are the greatest people who ever lived, rather than the brain dead clusterf**ks we know them to be!
Still its good to see that BALPA are on case. NOT!
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Grapevine Stuff
Re the whole Cityflyer stuff, I heard today that there are concerns that only 4 exBAR/BACON ops folk have joined the new outfit's ops team, and 3 of those are crew controllers with no ops managing experience? Also no-one from Nav Services is on board and some key IT project and scheduling folk have also declined the 10 pieces of silver that the handsome one and his brother in law have offered.
But I'm sure the CAA are happy this is a valid operation................?
But I'm sure the CAA are happy this is a valid operation................?
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OLDFLYBOY
I did try and raise awareness of that very issue a while ago. See my post on the previous thread, reproduced below:
Mike Mercury
Chances of BACON #2 succeeding? Zero to nil I'd say. We know all about the Flight Ops people - and seriously the best of luck to NG, but even he admits what he's up against. Have you considered the ground staff in your calculations? Have you noticed how the announcement of the appointments keeps being put off? Could it possibly be that they are desperate and noone wants to work with them any more? Never has the expression 'Once bitten, twice shy,' been more apposite. If that is your choice one can really only wish you the best of luck. I am rather afraid that your option #2 is the most likely: in a couple of years your colleagues at LHR simply say, 'Thanks for keeping the slots warm, boys, see ya later!'
Noone seemed interested at the time, but maybe there is a growing awareness that airlines need more bodies than just those at the pointy end!
Just one probable correction to what you posted: I don't believe that the 10 pieces of silver have been offered - or even one!
What's more the pressure exerted on certain ex-BAR OPS people to be seconded to MAN has, I believe been resisted. Not to worry, they'll have an eminent Technical Services Manager. Flight plans? Pah! Who needs 'em!
I did try and raise awareness of that very issue a while ago. See my post on the previous thread, reproduced below:
Mike Mercury
Chances of BACON #2 succeeding? Zero to nil I'd say. We know all about the Flight Ops people - and seriously the best of luck to NG, but even he admits what he's up against. Have you considered the ground staff in your calculations? Have you noticed how the announcement of the appointments keeps being put off? Could it possibly be that they are desperate and noone wants to work with them any more? Never has the expression 'Once bitten, twice shy,' been more apposite. If that is your choice one can really only wish you the best of luck. I am rather afraid that your option #2 is the most likely: in a couple of years your colleagues at LHR simply say, 'Thanks for keeping the slots warm, boys, see ya later!'
Noone seemed interested at the time, but maybe there is a growing awareness that airlines need more bodies than just those at the pointy end!
Just one probable correction to what you posted: I don't believe that the 10 pieces of silver have been offered - or even one!
What's more the pressure exerted on certain ex-BAR OPS people to be seconded to MAN has, I believe been resisted. Not to worry, they'll have an eminent Technical Services Manager. Flight plans? Pah! Who needs 'em!
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hearts and minds
Gwynn,
Agree with your post which I had overlooked. I believe its a case of people with no 'people skills' attempting to bulldose this through. Its like " you don't have jobs so you should be grateful for the opportunity"
Talk about not winning hearts and minds! Apparantly the words "you have chosen the losing side" have been said to a manager who elected not to join! Hows that for arrogance!
And you are right, perhaps if they had dipped into the money pot they may have had a better response from the ops folk, rather than assuming they would be happy with crumbs from the table.
The whole thing is so sad, with a little thought and understanding, not to mention a little thing called 'communication' things may have been different.
Sadder is the fact that WW failed to see what a shower they all were in failing to make BAR/Citiexpress/Bacon a success and gave the same guys another toy to break.
Nevertheless lets all hope some common sense will prevail and that the thing may stagger into life. Wonder what Barbara Cassani is doing now, perhaps Willie should give her a call!!
Agree with your post which I had overlooked. I believe its a case of people with no 'people skills' attempting to bulldose this through. Its like " you don't have jobs so you should be grateful for the opportunity"
Talk about not winning hearts and minds! Apparantly the words "you have chosen the losing side" have been said to a manager who elected not to join! Hows that for arrogance!
And you are right, perhaps if they had dipped into the money pot they may have had a better response from the ops folk, rather than assuming they would be happy with crumbs from the table.
The whole thing is so sad, with a little thought and understanding, not to mention a little thing called 'communication' things may have been different.
Sadder is the fact that WW failed to see what a shower they all were in failing to make BAR/Citiexpress/Bacon a success and gave the same guys another toy to break.
Nevertheless lets all hope some common sense will prevail and that the thing may stagger into life. Wonder what Barbara Cassani is doing now, perhaps Willie should give her a call!!
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Not part of the core business....
As stated by WW " domestic and regional services do not form part of our core business"
Strange then that BA mainline are going to operate LGWNQY once a day from 26Mar.....
I guess ASW won't be happy, especially as BA handle them at LGW
Rgds GB
Strange then that BA mainline are going to operate LGWNQY once a day from 26Mar.....
I guess ASW won't be happy, especially as BA handle them at LGW
Rgds GB
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Re Newquay
A little birdie told me, and this really is a rumour, that Plymouth airfield is to redeveloped for housing and Southwest is to close, partly due PLH shutting.
Prolly BS tho'.
A little birdie told me, and this really is a rumour, that Plymouth airfield is to redeveloped for housing and Southwest is to close, partly due PLH shutting.
Prolly BS tho'.
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brain fade Re Newquay
A little birdie told me, and this really is a rumour, that Plymouth airfield is to redeveloped for housing and Southwest is to close, partly due PLH shutting.
Prolly BS tho'.
A little birdie told me, and this really is a rumour, that Plymouth airfield is to redeveloped for housing and Southwest is to close, partly due PLH shutting.
Prolly BS tho'.
Thats bollox.......you fool......and its a crap rumour too!!!
The only airline closing round here is BACON! Live with it!........Move on!
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Oldflyboy
Thanks for taking that post in the spirit in which it was meant. I didn't really expect you to either read or memorise all the 93 (or so) pages of the previous thread!
The one word which you use really sums it up: 'Arrogance.' The arrogance is absolutely unbelievable, but probably understandable in that it has been built up to its current level by being surrounded by 'Yes men' (people? persons?) in their ivory tower.
As you say, surely if WW is astute as claimed, why give them another train set?
Thanks for taking that post in the spirit in which it was meant. I didn't really expect you to either read or memorise all the 93 (or so) pages of the previous thread!
The one word which you use really sums it up: 'Arrogance.' The arrogance is absolutely unbelievable, but probably understandable in that it has been built up to its current level by being surrounded by 'Yes men' (people? persons?) in their ivory tower.
As you say, surely if WW is astute as claimed, why give them another train set?
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update from Evans today:
OFT has today ruled acquisition of BAConnect by Flybe to be valid so can go ahead according to 'Airmail' sent to BACON staff by David Evans today.
However STILL no word according to my pilot colleagues at BACON today about deal for them.
However STILL no word according to my pilot colleagues at BACON today about deal for them.
Last edited by oldflyboy; 7th Feb 2007 at 20:47. Reason: re think after another glass of red!
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One itty bitty teensy weensy little question...............
Who is going to fly Jimbos plane set now that he has pissed off all the Rashers who are employable elswhere?
I know..........how about starting a BIG RECRUITMENT campaign?!!!!!
"COME AND JOIN FLYBE THE CR%P PAY AND CONDITIONS AIRLINE"
Who is going to fly Jimbos plane set now that he has pissed off all the Rashers who are employable elswhere?
I know..........how about starting a BIG RECRUITMENT campaign?!!!!!
"COME AND JOIN FLYBE THE CR%P PAY AND CONDITIONS AIRLINE"
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Jim doesn't care about any of his staff. He never has and never will.
I believe he has a great business plan that could work. The problem is he has a record of of treating his staff with total disrespect and even admits that he doesn't have the time of day for pilots. (Probably because he failed his PPL).
Second problem is the Q400. It has propellers. Propellers are for boats. Period. Ask a jet jockey if he would fly a prop and I bet we all know the answer. Not even for more money. Most 737 skippers earn in excess of £90,000. How about if Big Jim offered £100,000 for a Q400? I certainly wouldn't. So £40,000 for a Prop aircraft. I would rather drive trains. Their faster and you get paid more
I believe he has a great business plan that could work. The problem is he has a record of of treating his staff with total disrespect and even admits that he doesn't have the time of day for pilots. (Probably because he failed his PPL).
Second problem is the Q400. It has propellers. Propellers are for boats. Period. Ask a jet jockey if he would fly a prop and I bet we all know the answer. Not even for more money. Most 737 skippers earn in excess of £90,000. How about if Big Jim offered £100,000 for a Q400? I certainly wouldn't. So £40,000 for a Prop aircraft. I would rather drive trains. Their faster and you get paid more
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From Hudson bay...
Second problem is the Q400. It has propellers. Propellers are for boats. Period. Ask a jet jockey if he would fly a prop and I bet we all know the answer. Not even for more money. Most 737 skippers earn in excess of £90,000. How about if Big Jim offered £100,000 for a Q400? I certainly wouldn't. So £40,000 for a Prop aircraft. I would rather drive trains. Their faster and you get paid more
What did you learn to fly in then?... a BOAT???
Stop making a clown of yourself with these statements.
Second problem is the Q400. It has propellers. Propellers are for boats. Period. Ask a jet jockey if he would fly a prop and I bet we all know the answer. Not even for more money. Most 737 skippers earn in excess of £90,000. How about if Big Jim offered £100,000 for a Q400? I certainly wouldn't. So £40,000 for a Prop aircraft. I would rather drive trains. Their faster and you get paid more
What did you learn to fly in then?... a BOAT???
Stop making a clown of yourself with these statements.
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Actually, many of us don't care what we fly so long as the pay is the same (which it will be) and we get more time at home (which we will). Those who think flying a prop is any less worthy than flying a jet are obviously dimensionally challenged below the belt.
Re todays cancellations - that was due to snow, not crew shortages .
Re todays cancellations - that was due to snow, not crew shortages
.
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Perfectly reasonable post Hudson.
The fact is no experienced Rasher would choose to work for FLYBE unless he has some personal base/lifestyle issue.
So apart from the few who choose it for said reason, what you will have left are the Orange and other rejects.........
Its already a bottom fishing airline operating uncomfortable and unappealing equipment............and now employing those by and large that nobody else wants.
I cant wait to see the spin thrown out in the fortchoming recruiting drive.
You cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
I dont think Jim is half as clever as some of you make out. If he was, then why is he relying on ex BACON managers whose skills
we are very aware of? He has set himself totaly unrealistic objectives and timescales to achieve them
The fact is no experienced Rasher would choose to work for FLYBE unless he has some personal base/lifestyle issue.
So apart from the few who choose it for said reason, what you will have left are the Orange and other rejects.........
Its already a bottom fishing airline operating uncomfortable and unappealing equipment............and now employing those by and large that nobody else wants.
I cant wait to see the spin thrown out in the fortchoming recruiting drive.
You cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
I dont think Jim is half as clever as some of you make out. If he was, then why is he relying on ex BACON managers whose skills
we are very aware of? He has set himself totaly unrealistic objectives and timescales to achieve them
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Ghengis ... have I missed something?
BACon operate BAe146/RJ, Dash 8 and Emb145
Flybe BAe146, Dash 8 and Emb195
How on earth are Flybe aircraft any more uncomfortable to the BACon aircraft? Emb145 you have to be 5 foot to be able to stand in the 'off-centre' aisle, the 146 is the same as ours, and the dash 8 is the same as ours! Flybe seat pitch is more generous than both Easy and Ryanair, and if you haven't seen the inside of the 195, you really should next time its on the ground where you are - its an amazingly comfortable and well thought out cabin for passengers.
So wind your neck in and stop spouting the brown stuff that comes out the wrong end of a bull! All this propellers are for boats nonsense - do you guys not read Flight mag etc? Not seen P&W and RR plans for 'exposed fan' engines? Will that make those aircraft third class? I don't think so. Every dash pilot in the world apologises to you for flying a highly fuel-efficient aircraft, we are sorry and not worthy! And we apologise that we do not have the seniority or desire to move onto a SUPER jet like the 145 or 146.
BTW have you heard that dash co-pilots are only second officers not first officers?
BACon operate BAe146/RJ, Dash 8 and Emb145
Flybe BAe146, Dash 8 and Emb195
How on earth are Flybe aircraft any more uncomfortable to the BACon aircraft? Emb145 you have to be 5 foot to be able to stand in the 'off-centre' aisle, the 146 is the same as ours, and the dash 8 is the same as ours! Flybe seat pitch is more generous than both Easy and Ryanair, and if you haven't seen the inside of the 195, you really should next time its on the ground where you are - its an amazingly comfortable and well thought out cabin for passengers.
So wind your neck in and stop spouting the brown stuff that comes out the wrong end of a bull! All this propellers are for boats nonsense - do you guys not read Flight mag etc? Not seen P&W and RR plans for 'exposed fan' engines? Will that make those aircraft third class? I don't think so. Every dash pilot in the world apologises to you for flying a highly fuel-efficient aircraft, we are sorry and not worthy! And we apologise that we do not have the seniority or desire to move onto a SUPER jet like the 145 or 146.
BTW have you heard that dash co-pilots are only second officers not first officers?
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Yes Bacon fly Dash. All 7 of them. With reasonably fast career progression onto one of the (41 jets in total) jet fleets (very few Dash FO's do more than eighteen months, max two years on props before getting a jet position). And even the Dash skippers have a career expectation of getting a jet command in a reasonable time frame.
What Flybe offers is (by start of 2010, if things go to plan) the prospect of 54 props and 15 jets (if the latter ever get delivered?) and virtually zero career expectation of moving from prop to jet. Largely dead mans shoes - some of us have seen this situation before when BRAL/Manx had lots of props and just a few jets.
Flybe also offers the expectation of not having stable rosters (I have talked to some of the recent rashers that came to Flybe from SOU - they cannot make any lifestyle plans and they are already well hacked off by the endless roster disruption). Bacon has up to now offered good lifestyle protection with our scheduling agreement (and no, that is not the reason for Bacon losing money).
What Ghengis and Hudson Bay say above is largely correct - the only people who will come across are those who have thus far failed to find alternative employment, else have personal base issues. And as Hudson said money is not the solution - lifestyle is worth far more - and the hard evidence at present is that JF has failed to realise this.
PS Shagtastic - I think you have misinterpreted what Ghengis said. I don't think he is talking about existing Flybe pilots - more the fact that (excepting those with personal basing issues) only those Bacon pilots who have been unable to find alternative employment will be left to join Flybe. Perhaps the lesser able, or perhaps the lesser able to get through interviews (there is a difference!).
What Flybe offers is (by start of 2010, if things go to plan) the prospect of 54 props and 15 jets (if the latter ever get delivered?) and virtually zero career expectation of moving from prop to jet. Largely dead mans shoes - some of us have seen this situation before when BRAL/Manx had lots of props and just a few jets.
Flybe also offers the expectation of not having stable rosters (I have talked to some of the recent rashers that came to Flybe from SOU - they cannot make any lifestyle plans and they are already well hacked off by the endless roster disruption). Bacon has up to now offered good lifestyle protection with our scheduling agreement (and no, that is not the reason for Bacon losing money).
What Ghengis and Hudson Bay say above is largely correct - the only people who will come across are those who have thus far failed to find alternative employment, else have personal base issues. And as Hudson said money is not the solution - lifestyle is worth far more - and the hard evidence at present is that JF has failed to realise this.
PS Shagtastic - I think you have misinterpreted what Ghengis said. I don't think he is talking about existing Flybe pilots - more the fact that (excepting those with personal basing issues) only those Bacon pilots who have been unable to find alternative employment will be left to join Flybe. Perhaps the lesser able, or perhaps the lesser able to get through interviews (there is a difference!).