thomas cook morale?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thomas cook morale?
Hey there,
Joining Thomas Cook in the next few months, from one of the regionals. Need a bigger aircraft type. (757)
So just wondering if anyone could let me know what i'm letting myself in for....heard mixed reports.
thanks randomair
Joining Thomas Cook in the next few months, from one of the regionals. Need a bigger aircraft type. (757)
So just wondering if anyone could let me know what i'm letting myself in for....heard mixed reports.
thanks randomair
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's the worst that can happen?
You join, get your 75 rating, and IF the bottom of the seniority list does go tits-up you walk away with a free rating and move into non-regional flying on heavier stuff.
Granted, you might have to relocate to China!
(I'm in the same boat as you, randomair)
You join, get your 75 rating, and IF the bottom of the seniority list does go tits-up you walk away with a free rating and move into non-regional flying on heavier stuff.
Granted, you might have to relocate to China!
(I'm in the same boat as you, randomair)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: England
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with you MonkeyBoy.
This years schedule is set in stone now, so even if you were to join now, you would get a year (500 hours) on a B757 so you would be pretty employable should (and thats a very big should) the worst happen.
You also have to put into perspective that First Choice/Thomas Cook management will be able to influence how any deal goes through, and the strongest will probably survive. Sadly, it will be backroom staff - ops, admin etc that will be exactly doubled up so there will be job losses. It 'may' not come to pilot redundancies - and even if it does, probably not for ages.
Besides, successfull companies like FCA get many takeover approaches throughout the year, and it just so happens that someone leaked this recent set of events to the press. (possibly MYT to improve their share price ahead of a dissapointing set of year end financials - but perhaps im looking into things too much!!)
Any other thoughts.....
This years schedule is set in stone now, so even if you were to join now, you would get a year (500 hours) on a B757 so you would be pretty employable should (and thats a very big should) the worst happen.
You also have to put into perspective that First Choice/Thomas Cook management will be able to influence how any deal goes through, and the strongest will probably survive. Sadly, it will be backroom staff - ops, admin etc that will be exactly doubled up so there will be job losses. It 'may' not come to pilot redundancies - and even if it does, probably not for ages.
Besides, successfull companies like FCA get many takeover approaches throughout the year, and it just so happens that someone leaked this recent set of events to the press. (possibly MYT to improve their share price ahead of a dissapointing set of year end financials - but perhaps im looking into things too much!!)
Any other thoughts.....
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MAN
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm with FCA, and to say the takeover rumours are unsettling is an understatement.
However, as BB states, Summer 07 is set in stone, so the worst case is you get the type rating, 500 hours upto end of October 06, and no bond if they let you go. Not ideal granted but you have to remember that FCA have been in merger talks for most of last year (with kouni) and nothing came of that. The difference was the negotiations were all done in secret and so we were none the wiser. This time Mytravel leaked their interest in Firstchoice mainstream division (tour ops, shops and airline) to the sunday times, presumably to send signals to the city prior to their results that they are proactively addressing problems in the industry that are effecting their performance both in 06 and more significantly in 07. eg over capacity.
result - eveyone in FCA has a crap christmas worrying about what the future holds despite winning charter airline of the year and posting £50+m profits (in mainstream alone).
The feeling here and whats being reported in the business press is that FCA / Thomas Cook (the later buying the former) takeover seems to be the more likely scenario. However, the latest twist is that the Sunday Times has reported that "part of the Airline " will be sold! the shorthaul bit one presumes as that is what FC are trying to get out of in favour of specialist long haul.
So what does it all mean? who knows. You can analyze every possible scenario but its largely fruitless. Even if they do merge, will there be hull reductions? and if there are (after summer 07) then will that equate into redundancies as FCA is undercrewed on long haul presently while the summer 06 joiners do their 1 or 2 seasons on the 757 prior to going on the 767, and TC had seconded amercian FOs in the summer and german pilots from condor?
Do your course, line training, fly the line over the summer building up 500 before you know it and see how things pan out. By then you'll have a full ATPL and 500 hours on a 757, so alot stronger position than you are currently in I guess.
DH
However, as BB states, Summer 07 is set in stone, so the worst case is you get the type rating, 500 hours upto end of October 06, and no bond if they let you go. Not ideal granted but you have to remember that FCA have been in merger talks for most of last year (with kouni) and nothing came of that. The difference was the negotiations were all done in secret and so we were none the wiser. This time Mytravel leaked their interest in Firstchoice mainstream division (tour ops, shops and airline) to the sunday times, presumably to send signals to the city prior to their results that they are proactively addressing problems in the industry that are effecting their performance both in 06 and more significantly in 07. eg over capacity.
result - eveyone in FCA has a crap christmas worrying about what the future holds despite winning charter airline of the year and posting £50+m profits (in mainstream alone).
The feeling here and whats being reported in the business press is that FCA / Thomas Cook (the later buying the former) takeover seems to be the more likely scenario. However, the latest twist is that the Sunday Times has reported that "part of the Airline " will be sold! the shorthaul bit one presumes as that is what FC are trying to get out of in favour of specialist long haul.
So what does it all mean? who knows. You can analyze every possible scenario but its largely fruitless. Even if they do merge, will there be hull reductions? and if there are (after summer 07) then will that equate into redundancies as FCA is undercrewed on long haul presently while the summer 06 joiners do their 1 or 2 seasons on the 757 prior to going on the 767, and TC had seconded amercian FOs in the summer and german pilots from condor?
Do your course, line training, fly the line over the summer building up 500 before you know it and see how things pan out. By then you'll have a full ATPL and 500 hours on a 757, so alot stronger position than you are currently in I guess.
DH
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: England
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dash-Head.
Its interesting to hear your points. All of which I agree with. Of course, just because MyTravel/TCX want to buy First Choice (with or without part of/all of the airline) doesnt mean that it will definately go through. Alot of people have to agree (shareholders) that it is in their interests. They have to believe that the 50m profit that the mainstream devision is posting year on year will not continue and that it is more in their interests to cut their losses now and sell. It should also be noted that First Choice are rather enjoying snapping up company's left right and centre, has anyone thought about the possibility of a reverse take over? Ie; FC buying MYT? Or Thomas Cook, although that seems infinitely more unlikely. Have MYT even got the financial ability to buy 500m worth of company - especially since through their own doing (releasing information to the Times), they have helped increase First Choice's share price 20% or so!?
On the point of selling 'part of the airline', and we can only guess at that being the short haul operation. How do First Choice think they will sell their long haul holidays should they flog all the shops too? Doesnt seem particularly likely that they would only keep some?! What does anyone else think?
An interesting situation, and one cant help thinking 'i wish MYT could have kept this quiet' - ignorance is bliss after all.
PS: This is a thread about Thomas Cook Morale - apologies for making it one about First Choice Morale!
Its interesting to hear your points. All of which I agree with. Of course, just because MyTravel/TCX want to buy First Choice (with or without part of/all of the airline) doesnt mean that it will definately go through. Alot of people have to agree (shareholders) that it is in their interests. They have to believe that the 50m profit that the mainstream devision is posting year on year will not continue and that it is more in their interests to cut their losses now and sell. It should also be noted that First Choice are rather enjoying snapping up company's left right and centre, has anyone thought about the possibility of a reverse take over? Ie; FC buying MYT? Or Thomas Cook, although that seems infinitely more unlikely. Have MYT even got the financial ability to buy 500m worth of company - especially since through their own doing (releasing information to the Times), they have helped increase First Choice's share price 20% or so!?
On the point of selling 'part of the airline', and we can only guess at that being the short haul operation. How do First Choice think they will sell their long haul holidays should they flog all the shops too? Doesnt seem particularly likely that they would only keep some?! What does anyone else think?
An interesting situation, and one cant help thinking 'i wish MYT could have kept this quiet' - ignorance is bliss after all.
PS: This is a thread about Thomas Cook Morale - apologies for making it one about First Choice Morale!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SYD right down under
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really had to think long and hard before trying to decide whether Cruise Alt's small-minded, offensive and frankly pathetic little rant was worthy of a response, I shall certainly endeavour to not descend entirely to his depths. I know your comments are not indicative of wider opinion so I'll give them fairly scant regard, as for your wishing of P45s I seriously hope you look back on that with embarrasment at some point though I suspect you won't. It would be fairly redundant of me to point out how hard they work and how dedicated and professional I have always found them as I suspect you don't care. It is wonderful to see that you have engendered such a co-operative and warm attitude to your colleagues over your time with FCA, perhaps (if I may be so bold) it is this positive and reflective approach that you have displayed so eloquently in your postings that may have contributed to some of the alleged negativities you have been subjected to by those 'jack-booted fascists' in Crewing ( I know, I know my words not yours but I'm feeling generous you can use them in your next post if you find the bile sticking in your throat....) ?
May I be , almost certainly, the first to wish you a Happy New Year Mr. Cruise Alt. May I also wish everyone good luck with FCA/TCX over the coming months and hope that fall-out is kept to a minimum. I am sure that even those who have managed to work at 3 different airlines over their career with a gigantic chip on their shoulder will be able to retain some form of employment, may I suggest, say, MacDonalds ?
May I be , almost certainly, the first to wish you a Happy New Year Mr. Cruise Alt. May I also wish everyone good luck with FCA/TCX over the coming months and hope that fall-out is kept to a minimum. I am sure that even those who have managed to work at 3 different airlines over their career with a gigantic chip on their shoulder will be able to retain some form of employment, may I suggest, say, MacDonalds ?
Last edited by kowlaski; 3rd Jan 2007 at 15:19. Reason: just because.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Near
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: manchester
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise alt - Are you the perfect human being them - WHITEr than WHITE?!!
The Guys and Girls in FCA crewing do one hell of a job with the resources that are available, They are true unsung hero's of the airline! Believe me I've seen it firsthand and have the upmost respect for the lot of them. You mentioned Crewings "Chosen few favourites", if your attitude in previous posts is anything to go by you can't really blame them for being a little stand offish. Anyway what exactly have they ever done for you to wish them all redundant, refused a swap?!! Remember treat others the way you wish to be treated yourself and you'll proabably find that Crewing become a little more amenable with your requests!.
Right rant over but I'm going to end with a valuable piece of advice. You would be amazed at how many FCA ground staff actually log on to this forum on a daily basis (Crewing and Ops inc) so be carefull what you post!! Besides With a little detective work examing previous posts it Wouldn't take an Einstein to work out exactly who you are. Kat x
The Guys and Girls in FCA crewing do one hell of a job with the resources that are available, They are true unsung hero's of the airline! Believe me I've seen it firsthand and have the upmost respect for the lot of them. You mentioned Crewings "Chosen few favourites", if your attitude in previous posts is anything to go by you can't really blame them for being a little stand offish. Anyway what exactly have they ever done for you to wish them all redundant, refused a swap?!! Remember treat others the way you wish to be treated yourself and you'll proabably find that Crewing become a little more amenable with your requests!.
Right rant over but I'm going to end with a valuable piece of advice. You would be amazed at how many FCA ground staff actually log on to this forum on a daily basis (Crewing and Ops inc) so be carefull what you post!! Besides With a little detective work examing previous posts it Wouldn't take an Einstein to work out exactly who you are. Kat x
Since this thread is devoted to morale in Thomas Cook Airlines and seems to have descended into an internal battle between an FCA pilot and the crewing department why don't we bring it inhouse and retire to the FCA forum where the real punches can be pulled. It's sad to see FCA portrayed in such a way without need.
By the way, one or two names above are not registered on the FCA forum, like the main protagonist 'Cruise Alt' for one. Are you actually an FCA Pilot CA? If you are you won't mind supplying me with your staff details so why not register now?
------------------------
By the way, since we are all likely to be working for it soon. What is morale like in Thomas Cook Airlines???
By the way, one or two names above are not registered on the FCA forum, like the main protagonist 'Cruise Alt' for one. Are you actually an FCA Pilot CA? If you are you won't mind supplying me with your staff details so why not register now?
------------------------
By the way, since we are all likely to be working for it soon. What is morale like in Thomas Cook Airlines???
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm tough question to answer. I think on the whole things are ok, good BALPA representaion, fairly good block window protection and now even commands commin up each winter. 800 hrs top per year. Hard work in the summer (75 guys.)
Good bunch of guys and girls, normally makes for a good day/week away...
There are alot of worse places to be, all depends on the individual if its the place to stay for the long term.
Good bunch of guys and girls, normally makes for a good day/week away...
There are alot of worse places to be, all depends on the individual if its the place to stay for the long term.
