Which Uk company has Hats?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 256
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From: South of the Watford Gap, East of Portland
CamelhAir
I'm in complete agreement with you, too. If the company says you wear a uniform, no matter what it might be, then wear it. If it includes epaulettes and hats then so be it.
I'm in complete agreement with you, too. If the company says you wear a uniform, no matter what it might be, then wear it. If it includes epaulettes and hats then so be it.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: back of the crew bus
I used to wear bars on my raincoat, for the simple reason that it identifies you on the ramp to all those people who want to talk to you, ramp agents, refuellers, etc.
Of course then the hi-vis nazis had their day, so now the bars are a bit irrelevant... until I can work out a way of glueing them to the the hi-vis...
Hats... wore one for the first few months in Loganair, many years ago, then gave up after the third time I had to chase it across the ramp at ABZ. Haven't worn one since, although the kids like to use them for dressing up in. Of course, if the hat was of a decent quality, I may have continued wearing it, but most of them are horrible.
Of course then the hi-vis nazis had their day, so now the bars are a bit irrelevant... until I can work out a way of glueing them to the the hi-vis...
Hats... wore one for the first few months in Loganair, many years ago, then gave up after the third time I had to chase it across the ramp at ABZ. Haven't worn one since, although the kids like to use them for dressing up in. Of course, if the hat was of a decent quality, I may have continued wearing it, but most of them are horrible.
Joined: May 2000
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From: London
The ex Russian states all seem to like big hats, have been to a Krygystan and Azerbaijan and the Hats are huge, some look like the ones you see on TV worn by North Korean Soldiers!! Must be a communism thing!
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Planet Earth for a short visit
Self respect I already have. My professionalism is not displayed by wearing 'look at me' hats and apaulettes on raincoats.It is displayed by my demeanour and day to day attitude.
If you want respect then earn it. Don't wear a badge of office and just expect respect.
At one place where they still issued hats they only had one in my size, very very small. It was about 20 years old already, but never used. Full of metal and it used to set off the beeper every time. I was able to kid the FOs it was real gold because it was so old. That was the only benefit I ever saw in a hat.
If you want respect then earn it. Don't wear a badge of office and just expect respect.
At one place where they still issued hats they only had one in my size, very very small. It was about 20 years old already, but never used. Full of metal and it used to set off the beeper every time. I was able to kid the FOs it was real gold because it was so old. That was the only benefit I ever saw in a hat.
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: uk
It used to be a respectable profession. Like everything else, the issue of no hats is a cost one, as are plastic buttons and see through, boil in the bag, plastic crap uniforms that fall apart.
Early in Line Training I got a fearsome bollocking from "The Man" for wafting about with my jacket undone and you know what, he was right. At least then you had to make an effort to look like a sack of !!!!e tied together with bailing twine - now all I have to do is put my uniform on. As for my raincoat, even the local; garage couldn't do any alterations to it and the dog now sleeps on it.
As for respect, I would venture to suggest that you need a bit of self respect first. CRM handles the inter crew respect even if you pitch up in jock strap and spurs and maybe, just maybe I wouldn't have to spend half my life sorting out pissed up morons if they saw a bloke dressed in a way as to give the impression "don't screw me around and I'll get you there safe and quickly.
So, bring back metal buttons, gold braid, decent, well cut uniforms, epaulettes on rain coats and hats. Let's get a bit of self respect back into this once proud profession.
Early in Line Training I got a fearsome bollocking from "The Man" for wafting about with my jacket undone and you know what, he was right. At least then you had to make an effort to look like a sack of !!!!e tied together with bailing twine - now all I have to do is put my uniform on. As for my raincoat, even the local; garage couldn't do any alterations to it and the dog now sleeps on it.
As for respect, I would venture to suggest that you need a bit of self respect first. CRM handles the inter crew respect even if you pitch up in jock strap and spurs and maybe, just maybe I wouldn't have to spend half my life sorting out pissed up morons if they saw a bloke dressed in a way as to give the impression "don't screw me around and I'll get you there safe and quickly.
So, bring back metal buttons, gold braid, decent, well cut uniforms, epaulettes on rain coats and hats. Let's get a bit of self respect back into this once proud profession.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: back of the crew bus
...and like any other profession, it has a uniform, the purpose if which is not to enhance the ego of the wearer. It is simply to identify who is in charge, whether it be the flight deck, the cabin, or the ticket desk. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "look at me".
It always makes me laugh, the people who think it is so cool to try and have the largest "negative ego" when it comes to uniforms. If you have so little self-respect, by all means try and hide your profession. Maybe you aren't particularly good at it...
Personally, I am proud of what I have achieved, and see no problem with identifying myself accordingly... along with policemen, ambulance drivers, and others who occupy positions that they have had to earn. Not so sure about McDonalds uniforms though...
Maybe the antipathy towards uniforms is indicative of the whole trend towards budget this and low-cost that. If you want to be thought of as a glorified bus driver, by all means carry on; the public will think of you in exactly that way, and any authority and standing you might have had will be gone.
There was a time when a member of the public would never dream of challenging an airline captain on flight-related issues. Now it is commonplace, and this discussion is why.
It always makes me laugh, the people who think it is so cool to try and have the largest "negative ego" when it comes to uniforms. If you have so little self-respect, by all means try and hide your profession. Maybe you aren't particularly good at it...
Personally, I am proud of what I have achieved, and see no problem with identifying myself accordingly... along with policemen, ambulance drivers, and others who occupy positions that they have had to earn. Not so sure about McDonalds uniforms though...
Maybe the antipathy towards uniforms is indicative of the whole trend towards budget this and low-cost that. If you want to be thought of as a glorified bus driver, by all means carry on; the public will think of you in exactly that way, and any authority and standing you might have had will be gone.
There was a time when a member of the public would never dream of challenging an airline captain on flight-related issues. Now it is commonplace, and this discussion is why.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 763
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From: Monrovia / Liberia
The only time I ever thought a hat might be useful were those occasional instances when the (ex) Mrs OKC wanted me to give her a damn fine rogering whilst I'm wearing my uniform... uhm, and come to think of it, she's not been the only gal that's wanted me resplendent in my Company 'threads' (preferably including a hat, no doubt perched at a jaunty angle) whilst doing the horizontal boogie... strange creatures women! 
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: On the Camel's back
Well said Remoak.
Half of these replies must be music to the ears of mol and co. They must be thinking that, not only are we trying to turn them into bus drivers, with attendant T&Cs, but they're willing, in the name of "coolness" it seems, to discard as many identifiers of authority and respect as possible. Remember the cause and effect gentlemen. If you're perceived to have less and less authority and professionalism, it makes his job easier to justify ever less money and the removing of authority (but not responsibility) from the crew.
As was well pointed out, the public know nothing of your flying ability, they judge you purely from what they see.
I understand some of this anti-unform "rebellion" is a form of "**** the company", and while I fully subscribe to almost any and every potshot to be had at many companies, I submit that using the uniform as a form of protest is to miss the target altogether.
Half of these replies must be music to the ears of mol and co. They must be thinking that, not only are we trying to turn them into bus drivers, with attendant T&Cs, but they're willing, in the name of "coolness" it seems, to discard as many identifiers of authority and respect as possible. Remember the cause and effect gentlemen. If you're perceived to have less and less authority and professionalism, it makes his job easier to justify ever less money and the removing of authority (but not responsibility) from the crew.
As was well pointed out, the public know nothing of your flying ability, they judge you purely from what they see.
I understand some of this anti-unform "rebellion" is a form of "**** the company", and while I fully subscribe to almost any and every potshot to be had at many companies, I submit that using the uniform as a form of protest is to miss the target altogether.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 319
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From: UK
I arrive at the airport using a different building from the pax. I use a different checkpoint to get through security, even if I had a hat I would not wear it while doing the walkround- so the only time when the pax are likely to see me, it is irrelevant. By the time the pax board, I am in my seat, probably doing paperwork. A boilersuit be overkill for the walkround, so in terms of presenting a professional and reassuring image to the pax, the best I can do is have an ironed shirt and comber hair- that is all they are going to see as they board, even if they happen to look up as they cross the tarmac.
Joined: Mar 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Long ago and far away ......
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: UK
An old friend of mine sadly found himself partly in Boston harbour in a DC-10 through no fault of his own (he was completely exonerated). It was dark and it was winter and it was snowing like hell. He threw on his raincoat to assist with the evacuation but found himself twice being manhandled into the back of an ambulance.
He kept insisting that he was the captain but the burly medics simply did not believe him and assumed him to be a passenger in a state of shock.
The reason was that he did not have his bars on his raincoat so the rescuers simply did not recognise him for what he was.
In this case, not having bars on his raincoat was a very bad move.
He kept insisting that he was the captain but the burly medics simply did not believe him and assumed him to be a passenger in a state of shock.
The reason was that he did not have his bars on his raincoat so the rescuers simply did not recognise him for what he was.
In this case, not having bars on his raincoat was a very bad move.
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: back of the crew bus
that is all they are going to see as they board
But it isn't really the point - this is about taking pride in yourself and your profession, and being seen to be doing so. If you want the respect of the travelling public, you have to earn it in ways that are visible to them - they don't care about your paperwork.
If you don't want the respect of the travelling public, you won't get it, and your life will be increasingly filled with off-task distractions like dealing with drunks, having pax question your every decision, being treated with contempt by management, and so on.
You get to make your own bed in this game...
JW411, good illustration. It is important to be able to identify key personnel on the ramp (or accident site). At a Company Council I once served on, we suggested that the hi-vis tabards have our rank on the back, just like the Police or Fire guys do. Of course, it was deemed too expensive... go figure.
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Planet Earth for a short visit
Rank on your hi-vis!!!!!!
What about stripes on your trunks in case anyone has the audacity to forget who is the captain around the pool?
Just get your shoulders tattooed and be done. Don't ever get demoted though!
Just a small reminder, this thead is about hats. They are not practical and should only feature in 70s porn movies.
What about stripes on your trunks in case anyone has the audacity to forget who is the captain around the pool?
Just get your shoulders tattooed and be done. Don't ever get demoted though!
Just a small reminder, this thead is about hats. They are not practical and should only feature in 70s porn movies.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 231
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From: Somewhere between MSL and the Stratosphere
Air India and its low cost subsidiary(surprise surprise),Air India Express have some pretty decent hats.Dont like the "scrambled eggs"on the captains headdress though.Would be enough to deter a potential captain..........
BD
BD
Aren't hats just for the military.....
Joined: Oct 2001
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
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From: East Sussex
Talking of hats, about 20 years ago, a mate of mine who was an ex WAFU was on a boat trip round the Grand Harbour in Malta. He kept glancing over the side of the boat and one of the crew noticed this. 'Have you lost something?' asked the crewmember? My friend replied 'Yes, my hat'. The crew member said 'when did you lose it?' to which my friend replied
...'1941'
I'll get my hat....
Temps
...'1941'
I'll get my hat....
Temps
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 319
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From: UK
remoak, you fly your aeroplane, I'll fly mine. My company does not require, or even suggest, the captain's presence at the door during boarding. Space would be an issue anyway.
Furthermore, during a 25 minute turnaround, the loss of briefing time would be a great way of delaying the flight.
As for uniforms in general, David Lid Air, spend a few years wearing them, observe the year-on-year deterioration in quality as each successive replacement is bought from a cheaper supplier, and then let us know if you are still so keen to be seen in it. Our uniforms are so cheap they have to be replaced every 18 months- even then, after about 7 or 8 they start to look very tired indeed. Two pairs of trousers and one jacket is not enough to be able to cycle them around and keep them looking good.
Furthermore, during a 25 minute turnaround, the loss of briefing time would be a great way of delaying the flight.
As for uniforms in general, David Lid Air, spend a few years wearing them, observe the year-on-year deterioration in quality as each successive replacement is bought from a cheaper supplier, and then let us know if you are still so keen to be seen in it. Our uniforms are so cheap they have to be replaced every 18 months- even then, after about 7 or 8 they start to look very tired indeed. Two pairs of trousers and one jacket is not enough to be able to cycle them around and keep them looking good.