Rosters
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Join Date: Sep 2002
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Rosters
When is your roster issued,what time period does it cover and do you get any say in its composition e.g bidding, request trips/days off?
I am interested to see who has the worst scheme and why it is so poor.
Please can you also mention what system is used to produce the roster,human/computer programme.
I am interested to see who has the worst scheme and why it is so poor.
Please can you also mention what system is used to produce the roster,human/computer programme.
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3Greens thank you for your reply.My main gripes are:
1 Late roster production
2 Minimal days off
3 An excessive amount of duties where there is between 18-30 hours rest.
4 Using CAp 371 as a rostering scheme rather than a guideline plus lots of other gripes I cannot even begin to remember
1 Late roster production
2 Minimal days off
3 An excessive amount of duties where there is between 18-30 hours rest.
4 Using CAp 371 as a rostering scheme rather than a guideline plus lots of other gripes I cannot even begin to remember
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Cornwallis
Do you work for the same company as me??
- Roster normally available about 10 days before it starts.
- 5 on 2 off occasionally 6 on 2 off
- No request days off unless they fit in with your rostered days off - So what is the point in having them
- Lots of minimum rest, 12 - 15 hours
- No fixed pattern, for instance I've only just found out my days off for next month (JULY)
- CAP 371 is my life!
- All 4 and occasionally 6 sectors
- Start on an early (0600L check in), finish on a late (2230L check out) If we're not late and haven't been able to make up time because of the restrictive scheduling and 25 min turnarounds
- When do you eat? What's eating?????
CM
Do you work for the same company as me??
- Roster normally available about 10 days before it starts.
- 5 on 2 off occasionally 6 on 2 off
- No request days off unless they fit in with your rostered days off - So what is the point in having them
- Lots of minimum rest, 12 - 15 hours
- No fixed pattern, for instance I've only just found out my days off for next month (JULY)
- CAP 371 is my life!
- All 4 and occasionally 6 sectors
- Start on an early (0600L check in), finish on a late (2230L check out) If we're not late and haven't been able to make up time because of the restrictive scheduling and 25 min turnarounds
- When do you eat? What's eating?????
CM
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Chesty I dont think so as we only manage two sectors and min turn time is 45 mins.We do have late issue of rosters and a lot of disruption though.Which rostering programme does your company use?Ours is based upon a circus performer!!
Join Date: Oct 2002
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See http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230484
For a few examples of Tfly rosters.
Carmen is the name of the New system and we wait with baited breath to see how things pan out.
However we are in theory meant to receive the roster so we have 6 weeks visibiilty. With the new system we are able to nominate a preference for a certain type of work, i.e. earlies/lates/ night stops/ base to base flying etc.
Still in early stages and we have many teething problems - mainly due integrating the system into the legacy systems in the company.
For a few examples of Tfly rosters.
Carmen is the name of the New system and we wait with baited breath to see how things pan out.
However we are in theory meant to receive the roster so we have 6 weeks visibiilty. With the new system we are able to nominate a preference for a certain type of work, i.e. earlies/lates/ night stops/ base to base flying etc.
Still in early stages and we have many teething problems - mainly due integrating the system into the legacy systems in the company.
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Trying to integrate electricity into an abacus vexes many it engineers in the south bedfordshire area.Does your new system take into account seniority for rostering or is it merely on preference?What system were you using before?Was the carmen system introduced by management or in response to a request by Balpa?
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We are using a PBS Preference Bidding System. You can only opt to DO something and cannot opt to NOT DO something. Apparently this is deemed to promote a "positive lifestyle choice" on the behalf of the crew member. We cannot request specific flights only very general patterns of work and time off at specific locations (i.e. night stops at your mistresses Home airport perhaps).
You assign an ascending points value to your bids and then Carmen does its thing.
How many of your preferences are honoured is the Satisfaction Ratio and the minimum ratio each crew memeber should acheive is set dependant on Rank and then Seniority within the rank. i.e. all Captains should acheive 60% satisfied with those with higher seniority acheiveing maybe a little more 65% thats my guess.
Although what those ratios are exactly is a State Secret on pain of Death me'thinks...... though I've probably said too much already. :P
The system before....
We were for all intents and purposes manually rostered as far as I'm aware any systems were used as support tools to acheive the roster. However we had no influence over our rosters. The only biddable items were Longhaul and Standbys/Reserve. So in theory Carmen should be a positive change.
Carmen was introduced by the management with a fairly in-depth co-operation of BALPA. I believe they were in on it from the early stages of development to ensure it actually provided some benefit to the employee as well as the employer.
You assign an ascending points value to your bids and then Carmen does its thing.
How many of your preferences are honoured is the Satisfaction Ratio and the minimum ratio each crew memeber should acheive is set dependant on Rank and then Seniority within the rank. i.e. all Captains should acheive 60% satisfied with those with higher seniority acheiveing maybe a little more 65% thats my guess.
Although what those ratios are exactly is a State Secret on pain of Death me'thinks...... though I've probably said too much already. :P
The system before....
We were for all intents and purposes manually rostered as far as I'm aware any systems were used as support tools to acheive the roster. However we had no influence over our rosters. The only biddable items were Longhaul and Standbys/Reserve. So in theory Carmen should be a positive change.
Carmen was introduced by the management with a fairly in-depth co-operation of BALPA. I believe they were in on it from the early stages of development to ensure it actually provided some benefit to the employee as well as the employer.
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Cornwallis,
I would be very surprised if our chaps are using such modern technology as an abacus!! But not as suprised as if our management came up with an offer to use a system like Carmen! The latest "RDD" test in Manchester is a joke and a sad reflection on the inability of our Balpa reps to sort out anything. Apparently next month the council are planning to organise a party in a brewery... i dont expect it will be a success..
I would be very surprised if our chaps are using such modern technology as an abacus!! But not as suprised as if our management came up with an offer to use a system like Carmen! The latest "RDD" test in Manchester is a joke and a sad reflection on the inability of our Balpa reps to sort out anything. Apparently next month the council are planning to organise a party in a brewery... i dont expect it will be a success..
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We get our roster at the 25th of each month for the following month, always covers the whole following month except for december where it covers 1st of january as well. We can bid 4 days off each month and 5 consecutive days off each quarter (but in the month you bid those 5 days you cant bid the normal 4), you can have one standing request (prefer lates, earlies, overnights, partner-request with either cabin crew or fellow pilot) which isn't binding though, my early request works quite well though and i always get my requested days off. At least 9 days off but an average of 11 days off per month (guaranteed 132 per year). 39 days vacation, from the 3rd year in company 42 and 45 from the 15th year on. Each day of vacation reduces the yearly off day count by 0.33 days (3 days vacation = one day off). No more than 5 consecutive days of duty are allowed and 5 duty-days require at least 2 off days thereafter. For each 7 days of training out of base we get one extra off day added to our yearly number. Off and vacation days start and end at midnight local time in germany (where are all our bases).
Overnight stays is something we rarely have, maximum is normally 4 per month and often enough its none at all, however there is no real maximum in our contract.
Rosters are done by one crew planner for cockpit and cabin crew each (around 170 pilots and 400 cabin crew) with the help of some software, dunno which system they use though.
Overnight stays is something we rarely have, maximum is normally 4 per month and often enough its none at all, however there is no real maximum in our contract.
Rosters are done by one crew planner for cockpit and cabin crew each (around 170 pilots and 400 cabin crew) with the help of some software, dunno which system they use though.
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Cornwallis
What may help, is for the rostering/crewing manager to speak with other airlines rostering/crewing managers and to visit their departments to see how they run their show. Take a look at the computer systems they use and discuss their scheduling agreements.
Some airlines may not want to discuss some sensitive commercial points, but in my time I have seen airlines visit other airlines departments and not just rostering and crewing.
First stop should be TCX and FCA both appear to be doing well. They use AIMS and have a scheduling agreement.
Just my thoughts.
What may help, is for the rostering/crewing manager to speak with other airlines rostering/crewing managers and to visit their departments to see how they run their show. Take a look at the computer systems they use and discuss their scheduling agreements.
Some airlines may not want to discuss some sensitive commercial points, but in my time I have seen airlines visit other airlines departments and not just rostering and crewing.
First stop should be TCX and FCA both appear to be doing well. They use AIMS and have a scheduling agreement.
Just my thoughts.
