GB Airways - How does it compare
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sutton
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GB Airways - How does it compare
Hi Guys & Girls,
Posted a similar question re. Monarch and got some quality responses from their people. Would really appreciate the GB insider view.
I have been with BA Connect flying the 145 out of Man for nearly 10 years.
Really need a change..... but based in MAN.
What is the general concensus on the deal for new pilots.
My current situation.
Work 750 hours per year
Stable roster/scheduling agreement protection
£55K / year (£10K more if you work a couple of days off each month)
work 21 days a month mixture of 2 and 4 sector days
No night stops
7 weeks leave per year
How does this compare to a MAN A320/A321 F/O??
Thanks in advance
RMC
Posted a similar question re. Monarch and got some quality responses from their people. Would really appreciate the GB insider view.
I have been with BA Connect flying the 145 out of Man for nearly 10 years.
Really need a change..... but based in MAN.
What is the general concensus on the deal for new pilots.
My current situation.
Work 750 hours per year
Stable roster/scheduling agreement protection
£55K / year (£10K more if you work a couple of days off each month)
work 21 days a month mixture of 2 and 4 sector days
No night stops
7 weeks leave per year
How does this compare to a MAN A320/A321 F/O??
Thanks in advance
RMC
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Preferably on terra firma.
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manchester is a small friendly base of GB. Just the two aircraft over the summer therfore roster stability is very good. Most standbys are days off and the working week is generally no more than four days. Some long two sector days however from Manchester to the Canaries and eastern Mediterranean.
Starting salary for a F/O is around £42K basic. Time to command could be relatively quick if you have the right hours and experience.They have taken a few people in the recent past with EMB 145 time and they have done rather well. As for mixed fleet flying...
Starting salary for a F/O is around £42K basic. Time to command could be relatively quick if you have the right hours and experience.They have taken a few people in the recent past with EMB 145 time and they have done rather well. As for mixed fleet flying...
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: England
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GB have just offered command courses to a couple of MAN F/O's with 6-9 months experience in the company.
GB at MAN is a happy little family with stable roster patterns and usually as Man Flex said, a fairly easy working week. A 3rd A320 arrives for summer 2007.
The usual is for 9 days rostered per month and a couple of standby days which are rarely used. There are no night stops at the minute and an annual hour limit of 775 still applies but may change in time.
There are long days out at MAN with 10-12 hr days being the normal on lates and a short 8 hr duty in the earlies. The very friendly cabin crew pass the time though !
MAN does have a waiting list though for F/O's.....
GB at MAN is a happy little family with stable roster patterns and usually as Man Flex said, a fairly easy working week. A 3rd A320 arrives for summer 2007.
The usual is for 9 days rostered per month and a couple of standby days which are rarely used. There are no night stops at the minute and an annual hour limit of 775 still applies but may change in time.
There are long days out at MAN with 10-12 hr days being the normal on lates and a short 8 hr duty in the earlies. The very friendly cabin crew pass the time though !
MAN does have a waiting list though for F/O's.....
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well for us normal folk, average is about £2800/2900 take-home per month, with more in the summer.
If you're a contract F/O recently hired by GB, you'll take home £3800 a month. Nice!
9 days rostered a month only applies to MAN. At LGW you can expect 90hrs a month. Lates to earlies are becoming more common and causing lots of fatigue.
Some flights in summer aren't crewed yet, and F/O's are being asked to sell their leave back. It'll be a busy summer!
If you're a contract F/O recently hired by GB, you'll take home £3800 a month. Nice!
9 days rostered a month only applies to MAN. At LGW you can expect 90hrs a month. Lates to earlies are becoming more common and causing lots of fatigue.
Some flights in summer aren't crewed yet, and F/O's are being asked to sell their leave back. It'll be a busy summer!
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MAN may be OK for the time being but stay clear of LGW. Take home pay for new F/Os is approx £2500 and your bonded for 3 years if they type rate you. Expect to work 90 to 100 hours a month with very fatiguing lates to early rosters. Buying back of leave is true as is being called off every standby, they cannot crew the the summer programme.
Lifestyle crap, 4 F/Os left recently plus two Capts, rumour has it lots more to follow already in the VA and BA hold pool. Possible union ballot for action to come if they don't sort out the rostering issues.
New MD talked at recent staff forum of cut backs, lay offs and planes being returned in the winter if recent losses can't be reversed. Remember last in first out.
Used to be a great company, not any more. Stay where you are if you have any sense.
Lifestyle crap, 4 F/Os left recently plus two Capts, rumour has it lots more to follow already in the VA and BA hold pool. Possible union ballot for action to come if they don't sort out the rostering issues.
New MD talked at recent staff forum of cut backs, lay offs and planes being returned in the winter if recent losses can't be reversed. Remember last in first out.
Used to be a great company, not any more. Stay where you are if you have any sense.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: wherever they send me
Age: 49
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi reading with interest this thread particularly last comment. I've an interview lined up with couple of companies including GB. I currently fly TurboProp and fly 100 hrs per month (Just had 2 1/2 months on standby with 20hrs remaining of 900 limit) 4 sector days every day and often 7 days running. We always go from early to late or vice versa. Pay is peanuts!
What I'm trying to say is I can't work any harder than I have already so that wouldn't bother me, the two hundred % pay rise would be OK
and flying a bus to sunnier climes sounds quite a nice prospect.
Is it really all that bad?
What I'm trying to say is I can't work any harder than I have already so that wouldn't bother me, the two hundred % pay rise would be OK
and flying a bus to sunnier climes sounds quite a nice prospect.Is it really all that bad?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U K
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=seymour fanny
New MD talked at recent staff forum of cut backs, lay offs and planes being returned in the winter if recent losses can't be reversed. Remember last in first out.
Used to be a great company, not any more. Stay where you are if you have any sense.[/QUOTE]
Well said Seymour, this is an airline going nowhere fast.
We fly charter routes with a worse than charter lifestyle.
The management of this airline have been consistently indifferent to the business for several years. What was once a great airline is a shadow of its former self. If they offer a type rating grab it as the chances of the airline being around in three years to pick up the bond are pretty slim.
Good luck!
New MD talked at recent staff forum of cut backs, lay offs and planes being returned in the winter if recent losses can't be reversed. Remember last in first out.
Used to be a great company, not any more. Stay where you are if you have any sense.[/QUOTE]
Well said Seymour, this is an airline going nowhere fast.
We fly charter routes with a worse than charter lifestyle.
The management of this airline have been consistently indifferent to the business for several years. What was once a great airline is a shadow of its former self. If they offer a type rating grab it as the chances of the airline being around in three years to pick up the bond are pretty slim.
Good luck!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Preferably on terra firma.
Posts: 742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seymour Fanny,
For a first post on this forum your comments are pretty strong; as a Manchester based pilot I wonder how long you have actually been with GB?
Major,
The new man means business and I for one am encouraged by his determination and passion. It's a cut throat world out there and only the leanest and meanest will survive, I don't think GB are ready to throw in the towel just yet.
The rostering is a mess but moves are afoot to improve it and that will make a world of a difference. GB is still a far cry from a charter airline - some of us might know!
For those that are considering a move to GB I would say this; everyone is tightening the money belts, GB is one of the few airlines left that doesn't roster to 900 hours. The routes are varied and challenging, the aircraft are all brand new. The lifestyle is tedious but will improve. The pay is at least the industry norm. The company is still small enough to have a family feel about it.
You decide.
For a first post on this forum your comments are pretty strong; as a Manchester based pilot I wonder how long you have actually been with GB?
Major,
The new man means business and I for one am encouraged by his determination and passion. It's a cut throat world out there and only the leanest and meanest will survive, I don't think GB are ready to throw in the towel just yet.
The rostering is a mess but moves are afoot to improve it and that will make a world of a difference. GB is still a far cry from a charter airline - some of us might know!
For those that are considering a move to GB I would say this; everyone is tightening the money belts, GB is one of the few airlines left that doesn't roster to 900 hours. The routes are varied and challenging, the aircraft are all brand new. The lifestyle is tedious but will improve. The pay is at least the industry norm. The company is still small enough to have a family feel about it.
You decide.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a lot of unnecessarily negative talk about GB here. The talk among MDs etc is not any different from the talk that is going on in every boardroom in every airline in the UK today. Everyone is under pressure to make ends meet. No one makes money in the winter - at easyJet there was a Winter loss of over £40m (the worst in our history) and there will be an overall profit at the end of September that is again the best in our history. That is the way that European airlines work. All this talk of '90 hours a month' is not really accurate - bearing in mind the 775 hours limit per year at GB and the overriding 900 hours a year set by the CAA you can do your own calcs to work out how many hours you will be doing each month on average. You may do the odd 90 hour month but you will not be doing that every month of your working life.
For any discenchanted pilot at GB, I can assure them that they would work a whole lot harder at easyJet or Ryanair. You also get 14.5% pension, private healthcare and the BA travel concessions. In truth the package at easyJet is somewhat better overall, even if taken over 15 years, but a 4 sector day at easyJet is more tiring than the standard 2 sector GB day. Both companies have much to commend them and although the 5254 rostering pattern at easyJet is much derided, it is still better than random rostering. There is really no reason why fixed pattern rostering could not be brought to GB as I think it would be very attractive in the long term. That having been said, GB is still a pleasant place to work and if you can cope with the 'medium haul' element of the flying then it is hard to argue with. Personally, I prefer the short sectors at easyJet but this is only a personal opinion.
Just out of interest can anyone at GB tell me the current duty pay amount and what part of that is tax free? Many thanks.
For any discenchanted pilot at GB, I can assure them that they would work a whole lot harder at easyJet or Ryanair. You also get 14.5% pension, private healthcare and the BA travel concessions. In truth the package at easyJet is somewhat better overall, even if taken over 15 years, but a 4 sector day at easyJet is more tiring than the standard 2 sector GB day. Both companies have much to commend them and although the 5254 rostering pattern at easyJet is much derided, it is still better than random rostering. There is really no reason why fixed pattern rostering could not be brought to GB as I think it would be very attractive in the long term. That having been said, GB is still a pleasant place to work and if you can cope with the 'medium haul' element of the flying then it is hard to argue with. Personally, I prefer the short sectors at easyJet but this is only a personal opinion.
Just out of interest can anyone at GB tell me the current duty pay amount and what part of that is tax free? Many thanks.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: England
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NSF - Great level-headed post as ever...
For those negative GB'ers out there -- Why not give the new MD a chance ?? He's got plenty of enthusiasm and ideas and seems to like giving BA a hard time.
From what I have seen he is exactly what GB needed - a breath of fresh air even, considering the years we have had to put up with Jonny Vegas waiting to retire on his BA pension !
For those negative GB'ers out there -- Why not give the new MD a chance ?? He's got plenty of enthusiasm and ideas and seems to like giving BA a hard time.
From what I have seen he is exactly what GB needed - a breath of fresh air even, considering the years we have had to put up with Jonny Vegas waiting to retire on his BA pension !
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HeebeeGB - to be fair, unless you personally know who everyone is on here, then I'm not sure you can say they all have no idea what the world is like out there.
NSF - it is actually quite possible to have multiple months of 90hrs. Everyone this year was asked if they would work overtime in March - because so many had reached the 775-limit early, and I know quite a few guys said yes and took home over £3000 in overtime money.
As for working a whole lot harder at Easy or Ryan - well it all has to be put into perspective. Which is more fatiguing...Working a standard roster pattern, which allows a regular sleeping pattern, or working a mixed roster which actually doesn't allow you to plan sleep at all.
As for 4 sectors compared to 2 - well it's all personal opinion which is the more tiring. I've done 6 sectors days with 5 on the trot at a previous airline, and didn't feel as knackered as I have done here.
All that being said, I love it here. The various routes, with quite a few challenging destinations, the great atmosphere and 'family feel'. It's all good.
If they could sort a decent roster pattern (not necesarily having a set pattern, but getting rid of the bloomin lates to early) I think everyone would be a lot happier.
Oh, and if they could also get Staff Travel to pull their fngers out and get tickets done in less than 5 days, would be a great help!
NSF - it is actually quite possible to have multiple months of 90hrs. Everyone this year was asked if they would work overtime in March - because so many had reached the 775-limit early, and I know quite a few guys said yes and took home over £3000 in overtime money.
As for working a whole lot harder at Easy or Ryan - well it all has to be put into perspective. Which is more fatiguing...Working a standard roster pattern, which allows a regular sleeping pattern, or working a mixed roster which actually doesn't allow you to plan sleep at all.
As for 4 sectors compared to 2 - well it's all personal opinion which is the more tiring. I've done 6 sectors days with 5 on the trot at a previous airline, and didn't feel as knackered as I have done here.
All that being said, I love it here. The various routes, with quite a few challenging destinations, the great atmosphere and 'family feel'. It's all good.
If they could sort a decent roster pattern (not necesarily having a set pattern, but getting rid of the bloomin lates to early) I think everyone would be a lot happier.
Oh, and if they could also get Staff Travel to pull their fngers out and get tickets done in less than 5 days, would be a great help!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bootylicious - you can present it any way you want but if you are contracted for 775 hours a year then you can only do a little over 8 months at 90 hours per month - that's your lot. You will then have 3+ months off on full pay. No one I know of at GB has ever had that sort of roster. You may get the odd run of 90's but that is as far as it will go. If you elect to take the money and go for 900 then that's your choice - you can hardly complain that you fly more! Even then you cannot continue racking hours at your stated rate.
I do not want to be too rude here but there are a lot of people out there whose glass is half empty. I have spent my working life surrounded by a small but vocal band of pilots who claim to fly '100 hours a month' and seem to do several '30kt crosswind landings' a month. I have never flown at the rate they have even though I was working for the same airline, and despite flying to the same airport on the same day somehow had a wind straight down the runway or about 12 knots across! I flew 860 hours last year out of a planned 900 (only because I got sick for the last 2 weeks) yet I had only 2 months with more than 90 hours and none over 100. You guys may be the exception but if you are then you are the unluckiest people in aviation.
I do not want to be too rude here but there are a lot of people out there whose glass is half empty. I have spent my working life surrounded by a small but vocal band of pilots who claim to fly '100 hours a month' and seem to do several '30kt crosswind landings' a month. I have never flown at the rate they have even though I was working for the same airline, and despite flying to the same airport on the same day somehow had a wind straight down the runway or about 12 knots across! I flew 860 hours last year out of a planned 900 (only because I got sick for the last 2 weeks) yet I had only 2 months with more than 90 hours and none over 100. You guys may be the exception but if you are then you are the unluckiest people in aviation.
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 24th May 2006 at 09:03.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: sussex
Posts: 257
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once again I totally agree. I had only 3 months last year that got to or close to 90 hours and still did 848 hours in total, collecting myself a nice little earner - and that being my choice! Wake up with a smile gang - you could be working for a living!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NSF says;
"In truth the package at easyJet is somewhat better overall, even if taken over 15 years,"
Can you just explain to me how? I have just put the following figures into the BALPA pension calculator and I get the following result.
Assume your 21 years old starting out. You put in 10% into your pension pot and compare the difference between GB and easyJet;
GB puts in 14.5% at 65 you will have £1,423,961 in your pension fund giving a rough estimated pension of £66709 at retirement.
easyJet puts in 7% at 65 you will have £988,055 in your pension fund giving you a rough estimated pension fund of £46,288 at retirement.
I accept the calculator is rough and ready.....perhaps the experts can work out better figures..... I used 65 as a max retirement age and I don't think the new smart pensions at easyJet are included in the BALPA calculator.
If (only!!) I was a 21yr old in easyJet i'd be sending my CV off to GB or anyone else who pay's a good sum of money into the pension fund.
OK at easyJet we get a loyalty bonus ( I dont know about GB) but it seems the payments over 775 hours, private health care and BA staff travel at GB all sound pretty good!
Maybe i'm wrong!?! It's a good debate though!
"In truth the package at easyJet is somewhat better overall, even if taken over 15 years,"
Can you just explain to me how? I have just put the following figures into the BALPA pension calculator and I get the following result.
Assume your 21 years old starting out. You put in 10% into your pension pot and compare the difference between GB and easyJet;
GB puts in 14.5% at 65 you will have £1,423,961 in your pension fund giving a rough estimated pension of £66709 at retirement.
easyJet puts in 7% at 65 you will have £988,055 in your pension fund giving you a rough estimated pension fund of £46,288 at retirement.
I accept the calculator is rough and ready.....perhaps the experts can work out better figures..... I used 65 as a max retirement age and I don't think the new smart pensions at easyJet are included in the BALPA calculator.
If (only!!) I was a 21yr old in easyJet i'd be sending my CV off to GB or anyone else who pay's a good sum of money into the pension fund.
OK at easyJet we get a loyalty bonus ( I dont know about GB) but it seems the payments over 775 hours, private health care and BA staff travel at GB all sound pretty good!
Maybe i'm wrong!?! It's a good debate though!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
easyprison - check your PMs. Sorry if my PM seems impersonal - it was originally posted on here but was removed by me a short time later for the reasons I mentioned. Remember that I quoted 15 years not 40! The figures I sent you are hopefully reasonably clear but as I said it is an extremely complex calculation. It is incredibly difficult to produce comparisons between airlines and the only way to do it is to gross up the benefits. If you do it any other way it creates a false picture. The bottom line is that I am sticking to my statement that over 15 years a captain at easyJet will earn more than a captain at GB. That is not in any way to knock GB as they are a great company but you need to do a calculation of the overall package. The difference is that at GB you get 14.5% in the pension whereas with easyJet you only get 7% - therefore there is always a danger of not puting away money when you should. Cheers.
NSF
NSF
Last edited by Norman Stanley Fletcher; 25th May 2006 at 02:43.
