BA plan could slash staff pensions by a third
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This is so so sad;
I really cannot understand this pointless bickering, Hans, you seem a very angry man and it seems you will defend to the last why BA pilots alone should enjoy BA terms and conditions, I really do not understand this, it will cost you nothing in terms of career and pay to welcome these other pilots into the fold and you will all gain by a united stance against the managment. You have so much to loose and much to gain by just working together and not against each other. Mr Correlli the same goes for you, I can relate to your bitterness in the way you feel you have been treated but all this negative energy spent lashing out at your BA collegues on here will achieve nothing. there must be a way foward here!!
This is a pensions thread, i understand that it is only NAPS that is under threat, in any industrial action it requires the votes of the entire BALPA membership within BA to secure any kind of action, the 10% BARP pilots may not have a choice if the motion is carried other to support any industrial action, you are a decreasing number (NAPS) and you need to unite somehow otherwise the future is bleak. It is unrealistic to fight to maintain the pension in its current form, nomatter who is to blame (BA, Gordon Brown) the fact is the (NAPS) pension deficit is greater than the net worth of the company!! In the negotiations I would suggest that you include the BARP members to secure a better pension similar but ideally the same as the one that the NAPS pilots end up with. I understand that the ex BRAL final salary scheme is under threat as well..... perhaps an ideal opportunity to work together for a common cause??
I really cannot understand this pointless bickering, Hans, you seem a very angry man and it seems you will defend to the last why BA pilots alone should enjoy BA terms and conditions, I really do not understand this, it will cost you nothing in terms of career and pay to welcome these other pilots into the fold and you will all gain by a united stance against the managment. You have so much to loose and much to gain by just working together and not against each other. Mr Correlli the same goes for you, I can relate to your bitterness in the way you feel you have been treated but all this negative energy spent lashing out at your BA collegues on here will achieve nothing. there must be a way foward here!!
This is a pensions thread, i understand that it is only NAPS that is under threat, in any industrial action it requires the votes of the entire BALPA membership within BA to secure any kind of action, the 10% BARP pilots may not have a choice if the motion is carried other to support any industrial action, you are a decreasing number (NAPS) and you need to unite somehow otherwise the future is bleak. It is unrealistic to fight to maintain the pension in its current form, nomatter who is to blame (BA, Gordon Brown) the fact is the (NAPS) pension deficit is greater than the net worth of the company!! In the negotiations I would suggest that you include the BARP members to secure a better pension similar but ideally the same as the one that the NAPS pilots end up with. I understand that the ex BRAL final salary scheme is under threat as well..... perhaps an ideal opportunity to work together for a common cause??
Last edited by bluepilot; 26th Feb 2006 at 11:48.
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It is a very sad state of affairs. I don't post often these days - seeing the state of this thread makes me remember exactly why. Bluepilot, you seem to have summed it all up again. The BRAL pension IS in deficit, albeit by a lot less than the mainline one I think by a factor of about 100. Anyone with half a brain would therefore see one Company, (BA), having two schemes in deficit. Common sense would suggest some linkage there, but Hand Solo and his associates are uninterested in presenting a united front - one almost has the impression that they would like to see BACon go down the tubes, pension and all. I've never seen such arrant rabble-rousing and contempt for one's peers as HandSolo displays, a level of arrogance that makes one glad one is not flying with him - CRM, hah!
Correlli - don't rise to his bait - (bate??) that's what he wants. You made some entirely accurate points, and most of us (at least the guys I fly with) would probably think you have secured the moral high ground; don't waste it by sinking to his gutter level.
Blue is quite right, it's mainly that Scots b@stard in No 11 who is to blame, and unfortunately we cannot go backwards in time to fix it all. To suggest an all out strike a la Solo is equal lunacy, I fear Willie will not back down - he cannot afford to and has nothing to lose - rolling contracts are great aren't they. We all know what will happen, there will be posturing and huffing and puffing on all sides, lots of media coverage, the public will miss a few more flights, probably there will be another manipulated wildcat strike by a non-pilot group which will ground things for a day or two, the pilots will flex their muscles and point out how much worse THEY could make things, McCauslan and Darling will get loads of face time, and in the end the scheme members will have to pay more or lose benefits, (just like everyone else) and management will have to kick a bit more into the pot. The worst and best options rarely if ever happen, there's always a fudge. Hot air from the BA postees is just that - when it comes down to it, turkeys don't actually vote for Christmas!
(Then again, reading HandSolo does make you wonder, but I know he is not actually representative. There are a whole mix of guys in NAPS, and it is certainly not in all their interests to strike over this, depends on the demographics. Solo, being presumably either a very junior Captain, (not CFS qualified I gather) or more likely a senior passed over Effoh, has more to lose - he will not be alone, but he will be far from in a majority. It looks like being an interesting summer's viewing.)
Correlli - don't rise to his bait - (bate??) that's what he wants. You made some entirely accurate points, and most of us (at least the guys I fly with) would probably think you have secured the moral high ground; don't waste it by sinking to his gutter level.
Blue is quite right, it's mainly that Scots b@stard in No 11 who is to blame, and unfortunately we cannot go backwards in time to fix it all. To suggest an all out strike a la Solo is equal lunacy, I fear Willie will not back down - he cannot afford to and has nothing to lose - rolling contracts are great aren't they. We all know what will happen, there will be posturing and huffing and puffing on all sides, lots of media coverage, the public will miss a few more flights, probably there will be another manipulated wildcat strike by a non-pilot group which will ground things for a day or two, the pilots will flex their muscles and point out how much worse THEY could make things, McCauslan and Darling will get loads of face time, and in the end the scheme members will have to pay more or lose benefits, (just like everyone else) and management will have to kick a bit more into the pot. The worst and best options rarely if ever happen, there's always a fudge. Hot air from the BA postees is just that - when it comes down to it, turkeys don't actually vote for Christmas!
(Then again, reading HandSolo does make you wonder, but I know he is not actually representative. There are a whole mix of guys in NAPS, and it is certainly not in all their interests to strike over this, depends on the demographics. Solo, being presumably either a very junior Captain, (not CFS qualified I gather) or more likely a senior passed over Effoh, has more to lose - he will not be alone, but he will be far from in a majority. It looks like being an interesting summer's viewing.)
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I used to work for BACX, but saw the writing on the wall and left - never been so glad to see the back of a Company. Never ever EVER in a zillion years will I have anything to do with BA again. However, for a variety of reasons, my pension has remained where it was, deferred and ideally maturing nicely. In fact, it's more likely in a bit of a mess. I cannot help but wonder what the problem IS with BA, more specifically, why they are so unwilling to join the pension issues since they are represented by the same union and the issue is identical. I could entirely understand the BA position as described by HS if support for BACon meant dilution of the BA position, or reduction in any monetary factor, but it doesn't. Equally, I am surprised there is not more of a fuss going on within BACon itself - I know there is no longer an FS scheme there, but there must still be over 50% of the Company, not just pilots, who are members - why are they not raising cain about it - come on guys, that's my future too you know!
I'd like to hear from any present BACon guys who have any answers - HS, I think you have said enough for the next year or so, a period of silence would be much appreciated - you are neither being helpful or constructive.
I'd like to hear from any present BACon guys who have any answers - HS, I think you have said enough for the next year or so, a period of silence would be much appreciated - you are neither being helpful or constructive.
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Hey... what... hang on. I know I haven't logged on to the BALPA web site for a week but
"BARP pilots have said they won't strike for NAPS" Hand Solo.
It was a BARP pilot that started the very first pension thread "BA to address the pension issue" and BARP pilots have shown full support ever since. One blip over the Italian Tramp was ironed out, I thought.
BARP pilots support the NAPs stance because if NAPS falls BARP will never be improved. And lets face it you can't call a BARP pension a pension, it's a hand-out.
Currently 1 in 13 pilots are BARP and 1 in 10 cabin crew.
Off to check the BALPA website, sounds like someone's thrown a wobbly.
"BARP pilots have said they won't strike for NAPS" Hand Solo.
It was a BARP pilot that started the very first pension thread "BA to address the pension issue" and BARP pilots have shown full support ever since. One blip over the Italian Tramp was ironed out, I thought.
BARP pilots support the NAPs stance because if NAPS falls BARP will never be improved. And lets face it you can't call a BARP pension a pension, it's a hand-out.
Currently 1 in 13 pilots are BARP and 1 in 10 cabin crew.
Off to check the BALPA website, sounds like someone's thrown a wobbly.
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Sorry Tom, poor comms on my part. I should have written "some BARPS pilots have said they won't strike for NAPS", which they have done quite openly on the BALPA forum. There has also been some discussion regarding the legality of BARPs members supporting any NAPS related industrial action. I've no desire to split the pilots vote but I think the BACC realise the vote is already split between those BARPers who want no part in any action and those who'll support a NAPS/BARPS combined solution.
