Would you come and work for this?????
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Would you come and work for this?????
There is a thread down in Dunnunda and Godzone section with regards JetStar International in Australia and what the company is offering the local troops. Would pilots who are heavy jet qualified and either expat Australians or contract pilots even consider what is on offer?
A generous approximation of the offer to fly wide body (A 330) aircraft is US$130K for Captains and US$80K for FOs per annum. Possibly not a lot of time at home and if you do not have the type rating you will have to pay for one. If you stay, then you may have to pay for further type ratings and or upgrades.
Note that although the cost of living in Australia is reasonable, good housing is expensive and the tax is high. The top tax rate is about 48% and cuts in early plus there is a 10% purchase tax on nearly all goods and services. Both Captains and FOs will attract the top tax rate. There are no tax brakes on home loans, retirement contributions or school fees. A plus would be that the weather here is good.
The labor laws are just about to change again and it is not for the better, the new laws will make the "robber barons" of the past look like nice warm kindly people. Make no mistake, the airline will use these new laws to the full extent.
So to those who are qualified on A330, 777 or 767, would you be interested????
Personally I think what is on offer is poor, if the pilots already employed by Jetstar accept this offer then they devalue themselves.
A generous approximation of the offer to fly wide body (A 330) aircraft is US$130K for Captains and US$80K for FOs per annum. Possibly not a lot of time at home and if you do not have the type rating you will have to pay for one. If you stay, then you may have to pay for further type ratings and or upgrades.
Note that although the cost of living in Australia is reasonable, good housing is expensive and the tax is high. The top tax rate is about 48% and cuts in early plus there is a 10% purchase tax on nearly all goods and services. Both Captains and FOs will attract the top tax rate. There are no tax brakes on home loans, retirement contributions or school fees. A plus would be that the weather here is good.
The labor laws are just about to change again and it is not for the better, the new laws will make the "robber barons" of the past look like nice warm kindly people. Make no mistake, the airline will use these new laws to the full extent.
So to those who are qualified on A330, 777 or 767, would you be interested????
Personally I think what is on offer is poor, if the pilots already employed by Jetstar accept this offer then they devalue themselves.
Last edited by RaTa; 12th Feb 2006 at 11:11.
RaTa-
I think you'll find the offer is $130k AUD (1AUD = 73.8 US cents today) to captain a wide body in International operations for a subsidury of a Major airline, in a first world country that prides itself on it's high saftey standards.
Just Plain Insulting!!
I think you'll find the offer is $130k AUD (1AUD = 73.8 US cents today) to captain a wide body in International operations for a subsidury of a Major airline, in a first world country that prides itself on it's high saftey standards.
Just Plain Insulting!!
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Well... Want the job?
Seriously, say yes or no, would you come to Australia and fly A330's for this amount of money?
Latest info, as per the official offer, is US$120k for Captains, US$72 F/O's. (Read the previous posts for more of the contract/lifestyle details). The Qantas group are threatening that if the Jetstar pilots reject the offer, they will recruit from overseas. Would you take this job? Where are you coming from? If not, what amount of money would you come for? Be honest.
Latest info, as per the official offer, is US$120k for Captains, US$72 F/O's. (Read the previous posts for more of the contract/lifestyle details). The Qantas group are threatening that if the Jetstar pilots reject the offer, they will recruit from overseas. Would you take this job? Where are you coming from? If not, what amount of money would you come for? Be honest.
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The figures you quoted were in US Dollars.
To give an objective comparison to a Uk company operating the same or similar equipment, and at an exhange rate of Uk£1= US$ 1.74.
Captains salary US$130k = £ 74,712
F/O Salary US$ 80k = £ 45,977
Those figures would braodly equate to a Captain on year 6 of a basic incremental scale to about the year 1 basic widebody scale.
The F/O figures would be around the same as a year 6 basic incremental scale and about 9% below the basic widebody promotion level ( after 6 years or more ). As you will appreciate the many variables and differences make a true comparison difficult, but this an attempt to show an alternative view.
Paying for type ratings and upgrades is not usual in the comparative, but a period of bonding may apply to the additional training costs. Having said that some companies ( and it is a growing trend ) do indeed charge for new ratings, mainly in the "low cost" sector of the industry.
In the Uk the cost of living is relatively high. Good housing is very expensive. The top rate of tax is 40%, however National insurance charges ( a tax with a different name), adds 10 % to about the first 30k and 1 % to everything on top of this amount. effectively this would tax the example Captain at around 46 % after some basic allowances had been applied.
Equivalant sales tax on most goods and purchases in the UK is 17.5%. There are no tax breaks on home loans or school fees. There are however allowances for pension contributions to be deducted prior to tax calculation.
The weather here is not so good, (but I guess that depends on your point of view
)
So as you can see it is a case of swings and roundabouts. There are differences and similarities, but broadly speaking there is a significant comparison. In the example I have given there is the opportunity for significantly higher incremental salaries, but the entry level salaries are in most cases lower. In addition there is no direct entry command opportunity so the figures reflect a career progression.
I cannot authorititively comment on how good or bad this package is within the realities of your market, but offer this international comparison of a "better than average" airline within the Uk marketplace that operates similar equipment though possibly a greater variety.
If I was made redundant tommorow and needed to consider alternative employment at the best level I could achieve would I consider the package you have described.
I probably would.
To give an objective comparison to a Uk company operating the same or similar equipment, and at an exhange rate of Uk£1= US$ 1.74.
Captains salary US$130k = £ 74,712
F/O Salary US$ 80k = £ 45,977
Those figures would braodly equate to a Captain on year 6 of a basic incremental scale to about the year 1 basic widebody scale.
The F/O figures would be around the same as a year 6 basic incremental scale and about 9% below the basic widebody promotion level ( after 6 years or more ). As you will appreciate the many variables and differences make a true comparison difficult, but this an attempt to show an alternative view.
Paying for type ratings and upgrades is not usual in the comparative, but a period of bonding may apply to the additional training costs. Having said that some companies ( and it is a growing trend ) do indeed charge for new ratings, mainly in the "low cost" sector of the industry.
In the Uk the cost of living is relatively high. Good housing is very expensive. The top rate of tax is 40%, however National insurance charges ( a tax with a different name), adds 10 % to about the first 30k and 1 % to everything on top of this amount. effectively this would tax the example Captain at around 46 % after some basic allowances had been applied.
Equivalant sales tax on most goods and purchases in the UK is 17.5%. There are no tax breaks on home loans or school fees. There are however allowances for pension contributions to be deducted prior to tax calculation.
The weather here is not so good, (but I guess that depends on your point of view
)So as you can see it is a case of swings and roundabouts. There are differences and similarities, but broadly speaking there is a significant comparison. In the example I have given there is the opportunity for significantly higher incremental salaries, but the entry level salaries are in most cases lower. In addition there is no direct entry command opportunity so the figures reflect a career progression.
I cannot authorititively comment on how good or bad this package is within the realities of your market, but offer this international comparison of a "better than average" airline within the Uk marketplace that operates similar equipment though possibly a greater variety.
If I was made redundant tommorow and needed to consider alternative employment at the best level I could achieve would I consider the package you have described.
I probably would.
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Should appeal to the Aussies forced to work in UK for the past 6 or 7 years.The lure of the tinnies,barbecue culture and the chance to use the surfboards that are suffering from dry rot over here.Salaries compare with those of similar UK operators and the vacancies their return downunder would create,will prove delightful to all the British wannabies desperate for a chance to push the buttons on an Airbus.Come on you Aussies,get the CV's off asap.And the very best of luck.
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Yes, I would consider it. It's more than I'm earning now. It's broadly in line with most European offerings unless you are 10+ years in a major airline, and better than many. Tax is about the same, don't know about housing, but I'd be surprised if it's more than Southern UK, Stockholm or any major Eu. city.
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I have managed to see the "offer" briefly, what I quoted in the original post came by word of mouth, this is what is on offer:
A330 Capt annual Base wage: AU$147,809 US$108,000 UKpds63,600
rising by Aug 2008 to: AU$160,701 US$117,300 UKpds69,100
First Officer's pay is 60% of the above.
As far as I can work out, there is no extra for years of service.
Allowances are paid per meal missed with a max per day (3 meals) of :
AU$85 US$62 UKpds36 You don't get the full amount unless you overnight then you get an extra:
AU$29 US$21 UKpds12
Overnight hotel accomadation is of the Mecure standard (3 star?). Interestingly there is a comment that "airconditioning" will be provided where possible, that should be good for tropical locations!
These figures are "minimum" based on 75hrs per month, 785 hrs per year when annual leave is taken into account. You can earn extra but with the type of flying and hours flown it would be hard to do so.
The company can also roster some of your required days off whilst on an over night slip!
I personally think what is on offer is pretty poor. Anyone working for this airline deserves more. Lousy pay and the ability of the company to roster days off away from home. What do you think?
A330 Capt annual Base wage: AU$147,809 US$108,000 UKpds63,600
rising by Aug 2008 to: AU$160,701 US$117,300 UKpds69,100
First Officer's pay is 60% of the above.
As far as I can work out, there is no extra for years of service.
Allowances are paid per meal missed with a max per day (3 meals) of :
AU$85 US$62 UKpds36 You don't get the full amount unless you overnight then you get an extra:
AU$29 US$21 UKpds12
Overnight hotel accomadation is of the Mecure standard (3 star?). Interestingly there is a comment that "airconditioning" will be provided where possible, that should be good for tropical locations!
These figures are "minimum" based on 75hrs per month, 785 hrs per year when annual leave is taken into account. You can earn extra but with the type of flying and hours flown it would be hard to do so.
The company can also roster some of your required days off whilst on an over night slip!
I personally think what is on offer is pretty poor. Anyone working for this airline deserves more. Lousy pay and the ability of the company to roster days off away from home. What do you think?
Last edited by RaTa; 25th Feb 2006 at 23:52.
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To fly a widebody at what seems to be rubish pay and your days off taken down the route and not at home. They have to be joking!
I can't imagine many coming to work for what RaTa has posted, perhaps the odd desperate or a few ozzies who are fed up with the sand pit and want to return home. Not enough to run an airline.
It's a crap deal!
I can't imagine many coming to work for what RaTa has posted, perhaps the odd desperate or a few ozzies who are fed up with the sand pit and want to return home. Not enough to run an airline.
It's a crap deal!
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CRAP DEAL
Sounds like a crappy deal to me!!!!! The jetstar guys had the gun put to their heads with their domestic deal years ago coming from Impulse.I dont believe that is the case now despite what QF would like to admit.
Qantas seem to be calling their bluff on this one.If they stick to their guns they will get a better deal.Qantas need the JQ guys. As long as their pay is less than QF mainline pay the execs will all be laughing.My uncle is a CFO for a asx200 company who knows P G (CFO QF).The above statement reflects their informal talks.
What a lot of the JQ guys dont understand is that QF not only get better pay but other conditions like night credits, home transport etc.I really hope they get themselves a good deal. If they sell themselves short they will never go forward in the future.
Qantas seem to be calling their bluff on this one.If they stick to their guns they will get a better deal.Qantas need the JQ guys. As long as their pay is less than QF mainline pay the execs will all be laughing.My uncle is a CFO for a asx200 company who knows P G (CFO QF).The above statement reflects their informal talks.
What a lot of the JQ guys dont understand is that QF not only get better pay but other conditions like night credits, home transport etc.I really hope they get themselves a good deal. If they sell themselves short they will never go forward in the future.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 1st Mar 2006 at 22:27.
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Jetstar and Qantas can try this hard line of bargaining against the pilot group as they know they will cave in. Unfortunately the culture within Jetstar is different to Qantas as they have set precedents by undercutting the competition. While undercutting the competition is fine if you want to survivie in business, it is surely unwise to go seriously under the line. The Australian General Aviation culture of working for your rent (if you are lucky) has not been discarded by the Jetstar pilots. They have carried it into the airline and now it remains. The vast majority of Jetstar pilots earned their stripes in GA (not that there is anyting inherently amiss with that). It is obvious that if they stick by their guns they will improve these salaries, not by much but enough. Yes it is terrible money for the job done. Yes they are not contributing to maintaining employment and conditions standards within Australia. Yes it is disappointing. It may be OK if you can support the wage with a pension (eg ex-Military or other) but don't expect to see the kids grow up. Also, is there any truth to the rumour that the domestic Jetstar pilots bring their own lunch and drinks for the flights?
Let us hope that they maintain their professional standards.
Let us hope that they maintain their professional standards.
