SAS Pilots on strike
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I would agree whole heartedly with the SAS pilots as I believe there has been a world-wide move to bring down the 'airline pilot' into line with lesser paying positions, pilot or not......Is it a coincidence that the same type of thing is going on with most Star Alliance carriers., I think not.......United pilots take a huge pay hit AND lose their pention TOTALLY( I believe chapter 11 in the US is a horrendous experience for employees as courts seem to work in conjunction with management) The same goes for Air Canada, another Star Alliance partner, pilots take the biggest hit here in wages 30% and T & C's but this time it is because of a weak and/or apathetic union. Their flying is being farmed out to the regional carrier where pilots make less money as opposed to being given away, just another ploy.As the compant restructured, the CEO just happened to give himself 1,000,000 share options(shares at the moment worth about $30USD)on the backs of his employees, start to sound familiar......It would seem painfully obvious on a world-wide stage that the strategy to maintain the pay and status and T & C's of the 'airline pilot' is for them to some how unite........Maybe a call between union leaders of Star Alliance Airlines would be a start to illicit sympathy from other pilot groups working on any code-sharing flights.....It would seem either an interesting concept or an enigma, but either way if nothing is done the jobs will be gone.......IMHO
Standfast SAS pilots!!!!!
Standfast SAS pilots!!!!!
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It seems to me that if managements unilaterally change a contract without negotiating those changes then that voids the contract. Thus the pilot group would be within their rights to strike or take such action that would force management to bargain in good faith.
I find it ironic that most of the support for the strike in this thread comes from those outside europe, whereas those within europe, home to the wildcat strike, are indignant over the prospect of a pilot group standing up to a management that sees fit to change their contract without negotiating. What would the French do?
I find it ironic that most of the support for the strike in this thread comes from those outside europe, whereas those within europe, home to the wildcat strike, are indignant over the prospect of a pilot group standing up to a management that sees fit to change their contract without negotiating. What would the French do?
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The real problem
The real problem here is that it is fun to fly airplanes, and you will always have kids coming into the business willing to fly for food only. It is not managements fault, it is your 300 hour copilots fault.
Personally I am working in Russia, because the pay is what I want. I have given up on the US, $55000 a year for a CRJ Captain is not for me.
Once enough of us leave the business altogether we may see an increase in salaries again, or we just may be replaced with low cost labor from other countries. Make what you can now, in ten years westerners like myself will be priced out of the game.
I know, it sounds brutal, but ask all the people who have lost their manufacturing jobs to China already.
Enjoy it while it is still there.
Personally I am working in Russia, because the pay is what I want. I have given up on the US, $55000 a year for a CRJ Captain is not for me.
Once enough of us leave the business altogether we may see an increase in salaries again, or we just may be replaced with low cost labor from other countries. Make what you can now, in ten years westerners like myself will be priced out of the game.
I know, it sounds brutal, but ask all the people who have lost their manufacturing jobs to China already.
Enjoy it while it is still there.
Nice post DA50driver, but I think it's wrong to blame 300 hrs pilots willing to fly for food for worsening of T&Cs. There were always kids willing to do that but they were not allowed to. Even if they wanted to fly for dimes, they were forced to accept nice paycheck. It was not the fault of the unions, but ye olde style management had a notion that pay should be related to value of the work. Nowadays pay is just the lowest ammount MGT can negotiate with pilot union and it's the cultural thing, we're not the only ones affected by this principle but it hits everyone, from lumberjacks to astrophysicists. Face it - people who work for wage instead of working for bonus are second class citizens, no matter how complex or demanding or interesting their work is.
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Disgusted by management
Danish pilots can keep their 10.000 kr. That penalty has to be settled in court (just as the managements breach of agreement will) and that process will take 12-18 months. The paycut for days "off" will probably manifest itself sooner.
Hats off for our comrades in Denmark and their rapid action. Norwegian pilots are off sick due to stress related insomnia to the extent that 200 flights had to be cancelled. I salute them. Swedish pilots are now starting to suffer the consequences of a weeks stress. At least some realise where the managements plan is taking us all.
Hats off for our comrades in Denmark and their rapid action. Norwegian pilots are off sick due to stress related insomnia to the extent that 200 flights had to be cancelled. I salute them. Swedish pilots are now starting to suffer the consequences of a weeks stress. At least some realise where the managements plan is taking us all.
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It seems from this and previous threads that 130 jobs will go in Denmark, and 40 or so in Norway. If the Swedes are not affected, why should they join the strike? If I were a member of SAS Swedish pilot union, I would push to split completely from the other two unions to safeguard future careers. Isn't Sweden the industrial base of Scandinavia? (correct me if I'm wrong). Surely this would leave SAS Sweden in much stronger position than SAS Denmark, so why risk your neck to solve someone else's problem? Would they do the same for you?
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CX. I dont know bout' the Norwegian mind, but the Danish guys wouldnt have done it anyway, thats for sure. History has shown that D are closer to themselfs than to the companys best...(...if the company cannot afford to pay/do this or that to us, then it should be put out of service).
Looks like the D and N went straight into managements trap this time. Pax getting another reason to fly with somebody else, SK pilots starting to break apart into their (even more) self-country oriented destiny.
I think the management found those millions/day in profit loss during strike was well invested money.....
Or...???
Brgds/ SK_X
Looks like the D and N went straight into managements trap this time. Pax getting another reason to fly with somebody else, SK pilots starting to break apart into their (even more) self-country oriented destiny.
I think the management found those millions/day in profit loss during strike was well invested money.....
Or...???
Brgds/ SK_X
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CX & SK X
You have both missed the point of this issue. This is a classic case of union busting! If the management gets through with its plans of splitting up the three scandinavian pilot unions, they, the unions, will all have to pay for it in the end. It might not be visible in the short run, but eventually SAS, as we know it today, will be reduced to a diminutive 'flag carrierier' for the three SK countries, with the company's 'affiliates' handling the bulk of the air transport now covered by SAS aircraft and pilots.
You have both missed the point of this issue. This is a classic case of union busting! If the management gets through with its plans of splitting up the three scandinavian pilot unions, they, the unions, will all have to pay for it in the end. It might not be visible in the short run, but eventually SAS, as we know it today, will be reduced to a diminutive 'flag carrierier' for the three SK countries, with the company's 'affiliates' handling the bulk of the air transport now covered by SAS aircraft and pilots.
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G*W
Dont wanna patronise you, but we have seen the scenario you are talking about coming for years and years now. Its not a new idea. We all know it, sorry to say, and this is ofcourse why so many SAS Airline pilots are in the process of leaving now. We agree with you, g*w, there wont be any SAS Airline traffic to talk about in a few years from now.
Brgds/ SK_X
Dont wanna patronise you, but we have seen the scenario you are talking about coming for years and years now. Its not a new idea. We all know it, sorry to say, and this is ofcourse why so many SAS Airline pilots are in the process of leaving now. We agree with you, g*w, there wont be any SAS Airline traffic to talk about in a few years from now.
Brgds/ SK_X
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Passengers Point
Having got stuck in Copenhagen airport queuing from 1300 - 2330 trying to get onto another flight, then another 6 hours from 0600 the next morning, the whole time in mierable conditions with hundreds of other pax, then don't be surprised I have very little sympathy with this course of action. People had all sorts of reasons to be travelling, one Pole I met was trying to get home as his father was dying...I wonder if he made it? Yeah yeah I've been around long enough to hear the trite crap coming in already, but you guys are as bad as the Fench ATC come summertime, or any other B*****DS WHO USE OTHER PEOPLES MISERY TO GET THEIR OWN WAY.
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Bradders119,
I am not working for SAS and have not part whatsoever in this strike, and really symphatize with the difficulties pax are having when pilots strike.
But and this is a big but, do you know any other solution when a management do not want to listen. I have been working in the past for an airline, when the top management tell us "Go ahead, strike, this will permit you to blow up some steam then you can come back and accept these new working conditions, end of discussion".
What choice do yoy have then?? Onkly two in fact, you indeed accept whatever the management wants and guest what, three months later, the concessions you have done is not enough, you have to make another round, and another until.... you decide that enough is enough, and stop working until the management is forced back to the negociation table.
Nobody like it, but a great deal of airline mangement still believe in the "management by conflict". I wonders if you can find five airlines in the world, where is this not like that in the world...
I am not working for SAS and have not part whatsoever in this strike, and really symphatize with the difficulties pax are having when pilots strike.
But and this is a big but, do you know any other solution when a management do not want to listen. I have been working in the past for an airline, when the top management tell us "Go ahead, strike, this will permit you to blow up some steam then you can come back and accept these new working conditions, end of discussion".
What choice do yoy have then?? Onkly two in fact, you indeed accept whatever the management wants and guest what, three months later, the concessions you have done is not enough, you have to make another round, and another until.... you decide that enough is enough, and stop working until the management is forced back to the negociation table.
Nobody like it, but a great deal of airline mangement still believe in the "management by conflict". I wonders if you can find five airlines in the world, where is this not like that in the world...
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Sky 330,
Didn't you ever think that pilots are also free to leave if they think that grass is greener somewhere else. There is no need to make passengers to suffer like what happened in CPH.
Didn't you ever think that pilots are also free to leave if they think that grass is greener somewhere else. There is no need to make passengers to suffer like what happened in CPH.
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Airline flying is not a public service anymore, but a private enterprise governed by market rules. If they need to strike so be it. I have no sympathy for moaning passengers, of which I was one myself. Stuck and could not get home.
Most important. SAS or union? neither. A good and secure workplace with above average wages must be the goal.
Most important. SAS or union? neither. A good and secure workplace with above average wages must be the goal.
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Margarita - Why should pilot's have to leave a company for "greener pastures" if, by staying and applying some pressure, they improve their conditions?
The choice of one of the 3 pilot groups within SAS to not support the other two is poor strategy for precisely the reasons mentioned above - ability of management to split the pilot group. Their may be parochial self interests at work here with the Swedes, I am not familiar with the Sacndanavian region to know the differences in the costs of living in each country - heck, I thought you all were Socialists! But playing one pilot group against another only results in having all the pilots take lesser pay and benefits in the future. It has been done here in the States repeatedly in the last 5 years.
The choice of one of the 3 pilot groups within SAS to not support the other two is poor strategy for precisely the reasons mentioned above - ability of management to split the pilot group. Their may be parochial self interests at work here with the Swedes, I am not familiar with the Sacndanavian region to know the differences in the costs of living in each country - heck, I thought you all were Socialists! But playing one pilot group against another only results in having all the pilots take lesser pay and benefits in the future. It has been done here in the States repeatedly in the last 5 years.
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There are currently 3 active threads on basically the same subject, i.e. the confrontation at SAS between management and pilots.
Now, at the risk of getting all the flak, let me mention something that hasn't been said. SAS was in dire straits some 3-4 years ago. Official figures for 2004 still show SAS as having the highest cost among the top 50 airlines worldwide, at over 16 cents per available seat-mile.
We are talking survival here, not just growth potential. The current management seem (from the outside, at least) to have done a decent job of turning the company around. And as we all know, cost cutting isn't done with niceties. It hardly comes as surprise that labour conflicts arise in such environment; but then, what was the alternative, knowing full well that the company might have taken the SR/SN route?
Don't get me wrong. I feel great respect and simpathy for SAS pilots and I'm sure they are a group of top notch professionals. Furthermore, I know next to nothing of the strategies that SAS management have been using indoors. But being the aforementioned indisputable I feel it would be worth to raise a rational, balaced debate.
Now shoot.
Now, at the risk of getting all the flak, let me mention something that hasn't been said. SAS was in dire straits some 3-4 years ago. Official figures for 2004 still show SAS as having the highest cost among the top 50 airlines worldwide, at over 16 cents per available seat-mile.
We are talking survival here, not just growth potential. The current management seem (from the outside, at least) to have done a decent job of turning the company around. And as we all know, cost cutting isn't done with niceties. It hardly comes as surprise that labour conflicts arise in such environment; but then, what was the alternative, knowing full well that the company might have taken the SR/SN route?
Don't get me wrong. I feel great respect and simpathy for SAS pilots and I'm sure they are a group of top notch professionals. Furthermore, I know next to nothing of the strategies that SAS management have been using indoors. But being the aforementioned indisputable I feel it would be worth to raise a rational, balaced debate.
Now shoot.
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Whats the price on caviar?
Per S!
"If you purchase a car like Mercedes in Sweden you pay approximately 200 000 less in Sweden than in Denmark or Norway"
Is this a serious remark? Revolution, NOW
"If you purchase a car like Mercedes in Sweden you pay approximately 200 000 less in Sweden than in Denmark or Norway"
Is this a serious remark? Revolution, NOW