Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

[atse]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Hey, great news Mr. Lancaster. And welcome back; missed hearing your upbeat message about pay. As a matter of interest can I therefore conclude that you would not be one of the many happy pilots who cannot get their annual leave? (Which will be taken from them in March because it was "not used"). Or who have had a clause of their contract relating to pay declared by Ryanair to be either "inoperative" or "an error"?

While you clearly can sail into work and back to the missus and two children oblivious to all around you, things are actually taking place that might amaze you. May I suggest that you refer to the Press Release issued by your wonderful employer (yes, that's Ryanair) about cancelling lots and lots of flights between now and April (which by amazing co-incidence is when the 900 hours clock get zeroed and the non-pilot shortage will end).

[RAT 5]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Mr. L.

You have a very devoted family if, as I believe that lates finish at 23.00 & earlies start at 0530, they are awake and smiling to welcome you home at 00.30, or are chipper and smiling, and keep quiet, as you wander off to bed at 21.00 5 days on the trot. Is it really that great? From friends in the game, they tell em they are feeling tired after 4 days and wrecked after 5; less wrecked than the orange competitors; but please let's not descend into another round of bitter comparisons between the two main protagonists. let's just agree the whole lifestyle is not what is used to be, not what should be in 21st century, and definitely not what they advertise it to be.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

The reason that it takes an easyJet FO a year to go from selection to a command is that we take in DECs over the top of them as the whim takes us.

[atse]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Nice try shamrock6065 but you'll have to do better than that. You need to specify what "crap" you are talking about. In respect of this thread do you mean that the pilot shortage is "crap"? Do you mean that the reports of cancelled flights are "crap"? The stories really have little to do with why Ryanair would not be "still flying" and more to do with their behaviour towards passengers and staff (not to mention others). So a blanket "crap" won't work. You need to specify what "crap" you are talking about. (There's plenty to chose from).

[X-Centric]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Indeed it is!
Having been in other Airlines the money as a Captain is the best I will ever see in short haul aviation. Every night at home to see my lovely wife and Two children. 900 hours of easy but sometimes challenging work. but only 110left till end of March The standard of FO's I fly with is very high.Well maintained and new aircraft.
Love them. For those whinging i bet you work for us as well .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I couldn't agree more. I swore that I wasn't going to add to any threads on Pprune to do with Ryanair but I just have to respond to this one. It's the best damn pay in the industry. The roster is a fixed five on three off pattern. I get home every evening. I fly brand new aircraft that rarely falter. The training department is the best that I've come across with a high standard of trainers who strive to teach, & know more about the 737 operationally than, probably, Mr Boeing himself! A good First Officer is never going to find a quicker, or better, route to the left hand seat. Look at the list of destinations to see the kind of flying experience that he or she has been exposed to.

The airline companies regularly turn away experienced crew... maybe some of you should look at what is really happenening in the the airline industry...

Ryanair turn down crew who just don't cut it. We may be short of pilots but we won't take crew who don't make the grade at the sim check. Simple as that.

What has really annoyed me, however, is the total falsehood on which this particular thread is based:-

Leave has been cancelled for the next two months for Captains and First officers at two of the largest bases. Crews being denied the allowed holiday periods.

1000 Flights already cancelled due to "Boeing Machinist strikes" ; real reason because of Pilot shortage.

Carmoisine, where did you get this nugget of misinformation? I'm STN based & I applied for leave in September for February this year. Two days after applying for the said leave it was issued. The leave has now appeared on my roster. 1,000 flights already cancelled!? Total rubbish. Come March we probably will be subbing in to cover the crew who are short on annual hours, but it hasn't happened yet so why do you publish it?

[Aloue]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

I hope that carmoisine won’t mind me giving a response to the post above by X-centric because I too am fed up with posters who claim that their narrow experience of Ryanair applies to everybody else. Take this nugget:

It's the best damn pay in the industry.

So that’s for everybody then is it …. or just for some contractors … or are you just leaving out the (many) inconvenient exceptions out of genuine ignorance?

Or this nugget:

What has really annoyed me, however, is the total falsehood on which this particular thread is based:-

Leave has been cancelled for the next two months for Captains and First officers at two of the largest bases. Crews being denied the allowed holiday periods.
1000 Flights already cancelled due to "Boeing Machinist strikes" ; real reason because of Pilot shortage.

The correct figure is 1200 flights (being 200 rotations for each of the next three months). Source: Ryanair Press Release of December 20th (you can read the Ryanair spin on their website).
If you are a well informed Ryanair pilot you might occasionally visit EMA. Maybe you should talk to some people up there about the pilot shortage. They seem to have noticed what you did not notice and might even give you a more vivid picture of the realities if you ask. You can then work out if the cancellations are due to Boeing or the shortage of pilots, especially trainers.

Or this nugget:

Leave has been cancelled …

Within the last hour I have been looking at a new survey on the REPA site about leave in Ryanair. There are not many responses there yet, but the trend is blindingly obvious (and it does not seem to accord with your experience. Funny thing that.). I don’t quite agree with how carmoisine put it. I’d prefer the following version which is consistent with what is already on REPA. Leave has been unavailable to many pilots at many bases for some time. Some pilots applying for leave as far back as the summer have been unable to obtain their leave and most of these will, come April 1st, will lose that leave permanently. The numbers affected are unknown, but appear to be substantial. (Oh, and I forgot, leave has been removed from the STN pilots pages on Crewdock... and a number of other bases ... had you not noticed?)

So, which one of us is in contact with the realities of Ryanair X-centric, you or me? No, it is not a matter of opinion or propaganda. Somebody is wrong here.

[Carmoisine]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Aloue, Thank you, I agree. I should have phrased it better!

[X-Centric]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

So that’s for everybody then is it …. or just for some contractors … or are you just leaving out the (many) inconvenient exceptions out of genuine ignorance?

No, I'm not a contractor &, no, I'm not excluding from ignorance. Any FR First Officer who is on the half sector pay by definition doesn't have a great deal of jet experience & is, therefore, paid less for approximately six months. They will be taking home what many other FOs take home pay is permanently with most other carriers. After six months their salary will rise to be on a par with the other FOs at Ryanair which is bloody good. All Captains at FR are on a very good whack, please let's not argue about that. For all of the whinging that goes on we don't tend to complain about the take home.

If you are a well informed Ryanair pilot you might occasionally visit EMA. Maybe you should talk to some people up there about the pilot shortage. They seem to have noticed what you did not notice and might even give you a more vivid picture of the realities if you ask. You can then work out if the cancellations are due to Boeing or the shortage of pilots, especially trainers.

If you bothered to read the last lines of my post, & here it is again for you. Aloue,

Come March we probably will be subbing in to cover the crew who are short on annual hours, but it hasn't happened yet so why do you publish it?

You will see that I'm saying that we will be cancelling sectors due to crew attaining high hours, i.e., a shortage of crew. We haven't cancelled any sectors yet or sub chartered any aircraft into STN to cover sectors, why state otherwise at this moment in time?

(Oh, and I forgot, leave has been removed from the STN pilots pages on Crewdock... and a number of other bases ... had you not noticed?)

I've just been onto crewdock & guess what? The leave page is there. You can't miss it, Aloue, it says "Annual Leave."

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

high standard of trainers who strive to teach, & know more about the 737 operationally than, probably, Mr Boeing himself!

Oh perleeeeeeease!!!! I think that most who observe my postings regarding FR can see that I'm generally pro rather than anti but this one taakes the biscuit! Can you really hold your head up in public and spout this cr@p???

Any FR First Officer who is on the half sector pay by definition doesn't have a great deal of jet experience & is, therefore, paid less for approximately six months

Err........ how do you come up with this nugget? Many of us with plenty of jet time even 800 ended up on the half sector pay.

Get ya facts straight if ya gonna argue on here!

[Wizofoz]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Any FR First Officer who is on the half sector pay by definition doesn't have a great deal of jet experience & is, therefore, paid less for approximately six months

Indeed, one of our first officers left with an indication he would get a command after six months, only to find he was going to spend that six months on half sector pay!

[X-Centric]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Indeed, one of our first officers left with an indication he would get a command after six months, only to find he was going to spend that six months on half sector pay!

Then he should have been more patient, Wizofoz. Where did he move onto that gave him the opportunity of a faster promotion? Monarch? easyjet? First Choice? BA, even? Also, even though he was on half sector pay did they state that it would be an excessively long time to the left hand seat?

The present status with regard to full sector pay when first joining Ryanair is as follows:

If you have more than 500 hours on medium jet transport a/c & more than 1,500 hours on JAR25 a/c then your qualify for full sector pay. This is not heresay, but if you still doubt this then please call personnel, Dublin & they will verify this.

[X-Centric]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Oh perleeeeeeease!!!! I think that most who observe my postings regarding FR can see that I'm generally pro rather than anti but this one taakes the biscuit! Can you really hold your head up in public and spout this cr@p???

Yes, WCF. I can, because it's not cr@p. Try some other airlines & you'll quickly see what I mean.

[BBT]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Xcentric the person that tells you what your contract says in Dublin is not the same person who tells pilots (mainly F/Os) that “there was a mistake”, or “that clause not longer applies”, etc. What other company would write to people years after joining and tell them that “your contract contains an error”? Always an error over pay too. You are welcome to your experience of Ryanair but don’t lecture those who have found things to be different.

[X-Centric]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

You are welcome to your experience of Ryanair but don’t lecture those who have found things to be different

BBT. I'm not lecturing anybody, merely stating the facts as I, & most of the people that I work with, have found them to date.

Why don't you accuse Carmoisine of 'lecturing?' He or she started this thread with a complete misrepresentation of the facts, but I suppose the whole truth doesn't matter when it comes to writing derogatory posts about Ryanair.

[snowbound1]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

X-centric

With regards to your post that the sector pay for First officiers. I fully agree that Ryan Air have clarfiied the situation to all invloved. BUT

The point i would make is that, they only clarified this not insignigicant situation after (half sector pay reduces a first officiers take home pay by a third) blatantly telling four months of recruits they would receive full sector ffom day one on joining.

I enjoy day to day working working for Ryan but the management have little to no morals and from what i have seen will shaft people if they feel the can. If you join Ryan just make sure you do with eyes open as I think X centric is in another world estolling the virtues of Ryan without dishing the serious health warnings that go with the company.

On another point you posted x-centric, regarding annual leave for First Offciiers. Suggest maybe you click the annual leave button on crewdock, go to the leave application page, enter FO and STN base. If you do this I am sure you will see that all leave for FO has disappeared. Hope your other posts are as well researched as point on annual leave.

[mr lancaster]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

On another point you posted x-centric, regarding annual leave for First Offciiers. Suggest maybe you click the annual leave button on crewdock, go to the leave application page, enter FO and STN base. If you do this I am sure you will see that all leave for FO has disappeared. Hope your other posts are as well researched as point on annual leave.[/QUOTE]

The annual leave for 2004/5 has not dissapeard, it is is now closed and new bidding does not start until march for 2005/6, this is stated quite clearly as well , maybe when you go for a medical you could get the eyes checked? You don.t have problems with papis do you? . I have been informed by crewing that at this momment intime no leave has been cancelled?

Have they told you otherwise.If they have I must investigate.

[essexboy]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

Mr Lancaster. It is probably you that needs an eye test. There is NO leave available for booking between now and April. We are in 2006 not 2004 or 2005.

[BBT]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

X-Centric I have read your reply to Aloue’s post. I think that anyone who reads what is written closely will have no difficulty in concluding who is manipulating and avoiding the facts. You have clearly been caught spinning a Ryanair story and you don’t look at all like a line pilot to me. You asked me -

Why don't you accuse Carmosine of 'lecturing?' He or she started this thread with a complete misrepresentation of the facts …

I have read Carmoisine’s original post. I think he or she is misrepresenting nothing. The final line made it clear that what was said there was based on “Rumours”. The rest has been established independently of Carmoisine by other posters (like essexboy just above). For example, you did not reply to the posting above pointing out that the cancelled flights were announced on the Ryanair website (and manipulated that FACT). You did a very typical Ryanair misrepresentation about the leave page on Crewdock (so it's back now but so what if you can't use it to book unbooked leave - clear manipulation). Others have come on to say what we all know, which is that leave has been denied to many pilots. You also say -

but I suppose the whole truth doesn't matter when it comes to writing derogatory posts about Ryanair.

Look, let’s get real here. You show all the signs of being “close to” Ryanair; if that is the reality it means that any kind of truth is of little importance to you. You will repeat your message regardless, but that counts for very little.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Re: Ryanair Pilot shortage hits crisis Point?

X-Centric - I've tried a few other airlines. You wouldn't have a clue about that but you pre-judge that I have not, thus demonstrating YOUR closed attitude to the things around you. Perhaps you have NOT operated this aircraft with other airlines and therefore cannot make the comparison but I surely can. As it happens my opinion is that Ryanair have a very good training department but anyone who believes that the line trainers know more than "Mr Boeing himself" is, to be frank, completely deluded! I can site examples of trainers of long standing here who couldn't create airports in the supplementary Nav data page, hadn't a clue what those little white lights were on the VHF header units (which you fortunately see quite rarely) oh and yes you may take a closer look at them yourself next time you're on the flight deck to see which ones I'm referring to...... the list is there my friend! Don't get me wrong, few people (least of all me) know all there is to know but you seem to be of the opinion that the "trainers" know it all....... Sad reflection on you eh?

[Aloue]

Like mum told you, sometimes telling the truth is the easiest course of action.

Having been intrigued by the claims here and the apparently determined desire to defend the indefensible, I’ve been off making inquiries. Here is the “real” story as best I can sort it out. A couple of the “sympathetic to Ryanair” posters here are probably managers trying to keep the lid on a little management problem in Ryanair. The problem is bad in a narrow sense, but not worth a cover-up. The cover-up may be due to the fact that somebody might get beheaded by MOL (the system requires victims!). So obsessed are they with the cover up that the merits of telling the truth never seem to have crossed their minds!

It’s simple. Under management – caused by employing too few people and over-stretching those that are there – has led to a major breakdown in the leave system. There probably is enough leave to give to most of those who want it (or so it is claimed) but the system for recording and allocating it has broken down badly (as in, is in a mess). Like the EMA instructor shortage, this is all due to the corporate “management” style and “we’ll sort that out later” philosophy. A consultant from Head Office has arrived “to help” (bet they just love that!).

Thus the reason that leave cannot be booked until April is simply that the system has collapsed. The posters here pretending that it is working are thus very unlikely to be line pilots. Yes, I found myself a mole. When the fellow travellers get fed up even they dump some news from time to time. So, Pulp Fiction, oh sorry X-Centric, have I got it right?