Monarch, BMI or.....
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 82
Likes: 10
From: Cloud 9
Monarch, BMI or.....
Hai Everyone,
I'm an A320 driver flying with a LoCo on the continent but I really have to leave this airline due to the bad culture and really bad pay. I like the English culture and am interested in a career with an U.K. airline where I could stay for a longer time.
Next to BA I think Monarch or BMI are my best options and will give me the best career prospects with progressing to the A330. In another thread I read some negative posts about BMI but i couldn't find anything about Monarch.
On the Monarch website I found an address for applications but on BMI's website i could not find anything about the requirement of cockpit crew...
Anyone of you got some info about these two airlines?
P.S. Merry Christmas to you all!
I'm an A320 driver flying with a LoCo on the continent but I really have to leave this airline due to the bad culture and really bad pay. I like the English culture and am interested in a career with an U.K. airline where I could stay for a longer time.
Next to BA I think Monarch or BMI are my best options and will give me the best career prospects with progressing to the A330. In another thread I read some negative posts about BMI but i couldn't find anything about Monarch.
On the Monarch website I found an address for applications but on BMI's website i could not find anything about the requirement of cockpit crew...
Anyone of you got some info about these two airlines?
P.S. Merry Christmas to you all!
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
From: in da 'pit
Monarch do most of their recruiting in sept/nov/dec period, I know poeple that have interviewed and are now holding waiting for courses, the same as last year, I waited 8 months from an interview in Jan till job offer in Sept (05). With a type rating and immediate availability you maybe of interest to them.
I'm not sure of this but i have heard there is a 'queue' of pilots waiting to get into bmi from bmibaby and regional who will fill their spare seats.
I'm not sure of this but i have heard there is a 'queue' of pilots waiting to get into bmi from bmibaby and regional who will fill their spare seats.
Last edited by skywaytoheaven; 23rd December 2005 at 13:07.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 440
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From: England.
Monarch always had a reputation as a happy company, though that info is just from chatting to people. They, as do any company, have had their ups and downs as new managers come and go (though I base that observation purely upon what I've read on the web).
My views on bmi/bmi baby are well known to PPRuNe regulars, but I give honest opinions based upon long (or does it just seem long) service with them.
If it's a better culture you're looking for, forget it. If I were to expand upon that I'd be here for days. Suffice to say that the treatment of bmi employees by an oppressive mill-owner style of management is well known throughout the UK aviation scene.
If it's A330 you're after, then bear in mind there's a big chunk of the entire workforce queuing up ahead of you (F/O and Capt alike) if only to escape the monotonous routine of shorthaul from Heathrow. I don't see the bmi policy makers achieving anything in longhaul, anyway.
Lots of people in bmibaby are waiting to move to bmi mainline to escape the sheer grinding, underpaid, rubbish-pension slavery. Then again, who's to say bmi mainline have to take them on....they are separate companies, after all (but, of course, only separate when it suits them)
The owner of the whole shambles is close to disappearing soon (for whatever reasons). Lufthansa and SAS have, according to reports, signed an agreement to purchase his share in return for a company with Heathrow operating rights. That's about all they wanted from bmi when they signed the deal. Unfortunately, the lo-cost airlines have seriously wounded Heathrow shorthaul profitability. Over recent years Lufty and SAS have had to pay £ tens of millions into the bmi pot every year.....they agreed to absorb any losses as part of the deal....and boy, have there been losses!
I see much bloodshed when Lufty and SAS take over. As I said, they just want(ed) Heathrow slots, but lo-cost competition has ruined the value of those. If you're at the bottom end of the seniority list when the buyout happens you'll be the first to get the chop.
BTW, I seem to have attracted a small band of amateur critics who don't like honest opinions. Maybe they're bmi management, although some are definitely just lowly minions with masochistic tendencies who seem to enjoy being taken for a ride.
So watch out for their replies....they're occasionally amusing if nothing else.
My views on bmi/bmi baby are well known to PPRuNe regulars, but I give honest opinions based upon long (or does it just seem long) service with them.
If it's a better culture you're looking for, forget it. If I were to expand upon that I'd be here for days. Suffice to say that the treatment of bmi employees by an oppressive mill-owner style of management is well known throughout the UK aviation scene.
If it's A330 you're after, then bear in mind there's a big chunk of the entire workforce queuing up ahead of you (F/O and Capt alike) if only to escape the monotonous routine of shorthaul from Heathrow. I don't see the bmi policy makers achieving anything in longhaul, anyway.
Lots of people in bmibaby are waiting to move to bmi mainline to escape the sheer grinding, underpaid, rubbish-pension slavery. Then again, who's to say bmi mainline have to take them on....they are separate companies, after all (but, of course, only separate when it suits them)
The owner of the whole shambles is close to disappearing soon (for whatever reasons). Lufthansa and SAS have, according to reports, signed an agreement to purchase his share in return for a company with Heathrow operating rights. That's about all they wanted from bmi when they signed the deal. Unfortunately, the lo-cost airlines have seriously wounded Heathrow shorthaul profitability. Over recent years Lufty and SAS have had to pay £ tens of millions into the bmi pot every year.....they agreed to absorb any losses as part of the deal....and boy, have there been losses!
I see much bloodshed when Lufty and SAS take over. As I said, they just want(ed) Heathrow slots, but lo-cost competition has ruined the value of those. If you're at the bottom end of the seniority list when the buyout happens you'll be the first to get the chop.
BTW, I seem to have attracted a small band of amateur critics who don't like honest opinions. Maybe they're bmi management, although some are definitely just lowly minions with masochistic tendencies who seem to enjoy being taken for a ride.
So watch out for their replies....they're occasionally amusing if nothing else.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
From: gate 67 JFK
Another worth while post from bmi's biggest critic
Abcus you and your ilk have transformed Pprune over the years with your objective and balanced views, you know little of what you speak.
Just have a look at Abcus1 history of posts, it will take you all 2006 to read and see how much anti bmi venomn there is, what ever did they do to you lad?
Happy New Year to all (Abcus included)
Viktor
Abcus you and your ilk have transformed Pprune over the years with your objective and balanced views, you know little of what you speak.
Just have a look at Abcus1 history of posts, it will take you all 2006 to read and see how much anti bmi venomn there is, what ever did they do to you lad?
Happy New Year to all (Abcus included)
Viktor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: out of a suitcase
I would ignore whatever acbus1 says about bmi, he may have worked for us in the past (but in what capacity is up for discussion, my bet is on customer services ) there are a lot of people who are happy with their life at bmi,and there are many worse employers to work for, IF Sir M.B decides to retire in a couple of years I reckon the airline will carry on regardless, we are looking to expand the longhaul operation from LHR and when we finally get to operate to the US from Heathrow the future of the airline will be very rosy.Before acbus1 responds with his predictable anti bmi claptrap, I am not management nor do I have any aspirations in that direction I am merely someone who is happy to work for bmi and I can assure you that there are many more like me, so pay no attention to pilot wannabe rejects (you know who you are) 
) there are a lot of people who are happy with their life at bmi,and there are many worse employers to work for, IF Sir M.B decides to retire in a couple of years I reckon the airline will carry on regardless, we are looking to expand the longhaul operation from LHR and when we finally get to operate to the US from Heathrow the future of the airline will be very rosy.Before acbus1 responds with his predictable anti bmi claptrap, I am not management nor do I have any aspirations in that direction I am merely someone who is happy to work for bmi and I can assure you that there are many more like me, so pay no attention to pilot wannabe rejects (you know who you are)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: UK
Ha Ha Ha,
It would appear that Regional and Baby guys are the last ones to get a shot at Mainline....
There was supposed to be a course for a few regional transferees (the first in years!) a few months ago, but it got chopped at late notice!
It would appear that the regional pilots are only good enough to fly for Mainline in their own Embraers. There are plans afoot to set up a temporary LHR base this summer with 1 EMB-145 down there during the week, then 3 more coming in at weekends.
Cheers,
Shortcut
It would appear that Regional and Baby guys are the last ones to get a shot at Mainline....
There was supposed to be a course for a few regional transferees (the first in years!) a few months ago, but it got chopped at late notice!
It would appear that the regional pilots are only good enough to fly for Mainline in their own Embraers. There are plans afoot to set up a temporary LHR base this summer with 1 EMB-145 down there during the week, then 3 more coming in at weekends.
Cheers,
Shortcut
(2 months till I start myself
)
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
Ok Here's the deal. BA or Monarch. What would you take that is the dilema I have.
Monarch:Regional base that I want and get home every night, good if have a family in future.. Interesting flying. Reasonable salary, time to command 6-8 years maybe get some longhaul flying in that time. Company future....who knows?
BA:Longhaul fleet-Away alot(not good for family life) but get quality time off, good salary, command time 15-20 years. Company future, prettysolid.
What would you do any suggestions/opinions?
Monarch:Regional base that I want and get home every night, good if have a family in future.. Interesting flying. Reasonable salary, time to command 6-8 years maybe get some longhaul flying in that time. Company future....who knows?
BA:Longhaul fleet-Away alot(not good for family life) but get quality time off, good salary, command time 15-20 years. Company future, prettysolid.
What would you do any suggestions/opinions?
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Re: Monarch, BMI or.....
acbus
With all the redundancy at BA how many times have you heard of the same at Monarch. U would say Monarch is about the most secure you will find in the industry as they have been, independantly, for the last 30years
With all the redundancy at BA how many times have you heard of the same at Monarch. U would say Monarch is about the most secure you will find in the industry as they have been, independantly, for the last 30years
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: UK
Re: Monarch, BMI or.....
PILOTATLAST
Take a very careful look at Monarch's terms. A vastly, vastly inferior pension to BA (or even other charter airlines) no PHI and a union which does not represent new joiner’s interests well (IMHO), ergo not much chance of improvements.
Make your lifestyle decisions based on the fact that the Management are determined to get Ryanair type "productivity" from the flight crew (read 900 hours a year) with taxi rides a go go in the near future, in order to crew outstations at BLK/ABZ/NQY, so you may well find your "getting home every night" theory flawed.
Watch out for the "Monarch's been around for ever" and "no one ever leaves" brigade. Management’s attitude towards the Pilot force has changed for the worse in recent years, as indicated by the inferior T&C's, I personally feel that in the current climate they would readily make redundancies if the need arouse. The historically high retention by Monarch was based on being at the top of the remuneration scales, they are now the lowest amongst the blue chip charter carriers.
There a several people that I know of in holding pools for BA or Virgin. Make of that what you will! All that said there are far worse places to be and you would be joining a great bunch of people.
Good luck!
Take a very careful look at Monarch's terms. A vastly, vastly inferior pension to BA (or even other charter airlines) no PHI and a union which does not represent new joiner’s interests well (IMHO), ergo not much chance of improvements.
Make your lifestyle decisions based on the fact that the Management are determined to get Ryanair type "productivity" from the flight crew (read 900 hours a year) with taxi rides a go go in the near future, in order to crew outstations at BLK/ABZ/NQY, so you may well find your "getting home every night" theory flawed.
Watch out for the "Monarch's been around for ever" and "no one ever leaves" brigade. Management’s attitude towards the Pilot force has changed for the worse in recent years, as indicated by the inferior T&C's, I personally feel that in the current climate they would readily make redundancies if the need arouse. The historically high retention by Monarch was based on being at the top of the remuneration scales, they are now the lowest amongst the blue chip charter carriers.
There a several people that I know of in holding pools for BA or Virgin. Make of that what you will! All that said there are far worse places to be and you would be joining a great bunch of people.
Good luck!
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
From: UK
Re: Monarch, BMI or.....
A vastly, vastly inferior pension to BA (or even other charter airlines)
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: UK
Re: Monarch, BMI or.....
Nigel
I'll show you mine if you show me yours! MON will match your contribution upto a maximum of 8%. Bear in mind though that MON salaries are far lower that BA's.
I stand to be corrected.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours! MON will match your contribution upto a maximum of 8%. Bear in mind though that MON salaries are far lower that BA's.
I stand to be corrected.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
From: UK
Re: Monarch, BMI or.....
I understand, but cannot confirm, that BA's (max) contribution is 12%... However, this is 12% of one's "Pensionable" salary, in turn ~75% of your actual basic. So ~9% - near what you quote for Monarch.
You go on to state that Monarch salaries are "far less". Again, I am not familiar with the actual numbers, but bear in mind that time to Command in BA is probably 12 years+ now, with a likely 5-10 year extension from Oct 2006. So if you factor everything in, the schemes are probably not far apart
You go on to state that Monarch salaries are "far less". Again, I am not familiar with the actual numbers, but bear in mind that time to Command in BA is probably 12 years+ now, with a likely 5-10 year extension from Oct 2006. So if you factor everything in, the schemes are probably not far apart
