Pilots leaving Easy
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
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I'm not planning to leave. Not through any misplaced notion of loyalty, but simply because it suits my needs at this particular moment in time.
Additionally, I'm resigned to the fact that my employer considers me to be nothing more than a resource that costs X amount of pounds an hour.
The endless merry-go-round of debates about them being ba***rds and us having the power to change things if we unite sadly smacks of tiring futility.
Markets forces will allow a small change in the equilibrium but the world is changing and the perception employers have of their employees (read: cost base) is like everything else in our lives ........disposable
Additionally, I'm resigned to the fact that my employer considers me to be nothing more than a resource that costs X amount of pounds an hour.
The endless merry-go-round of debates about them being ba***rds and us having the power to change things if we unite sadly smacks of tiring futility.
Markets forces will allow a small change in the equilibrium but the world is changing and the perception employers have of their employees (read: cost base) is like everything else in our lives ........disposable
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
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Mr Ree
Not highly recommended as you put it......just recommended. That is because your CC will have spent weeks, and probably months, saying NO on your behalf until something has materialised that they believe is acceptable.
That only happens when the offer is considered acceptable and unlikely to be improved without escalation.
Alternatively, if an impasse is reached, your CC would propose a NO vote to give an appropriate mandate to go further.
Do you honestly really think that smaller bargaining groups at individual bases would have a cat's chance in hell of achieving anything? Surely not!
Not highly recommended as you put it......just recommended. That is because your CC will have spent weeks, and probably months, saying NO on your behalf until something has materialised that they believe is acceptable.
That only happens when the offer is considered acceptable and unlikely to be improved without escalation.
Alternatively, if an impasse is reached, your CC would propose a NO vote to give an appropriate mandate to go further.
Do you honestly really think that smaller bargaining groups at individual bases would have a cat's chance in hell of achieving anything? Surely not!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London
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Flaps one - fair enough. But all I know is that the present system of 5/2/5/4 is not sustainable for everyone I talk to at my base. Thats not most, or nearly etc, but everyone.
I only know of one guy who voted for it at my base, and he now regrets doing so. Obviosly it works for the Luton and Edinburgh guys cos they voted in huge numbers for it.
But the one size fits all philosophy is no longer working, as is demonstrated by all the postings. Whats good for one base isn't neccessarily good for another.
How can one group CC represent all the differing requirements of each of the diverse bases? It is definately broken, and so needs fixing. How, I don't know yet.
I only know of one guy who voted for it at my base, and he now regrets doing so. Obviosly it works for the Luton and Edinburgh guys cos they voted in huge numbers for it.
But the one size fits all philosophy is no longer working, as is demonstrated by all the postings. Whats good for one base isn't neccessarily good for another.
How can one group CC represent all the differing requirements of each of the diverse bases? It is definately broken, and so needs fixing. How, I don't know yet.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
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It is definately broken, and so needs fixing. How, I don't know yet.
Get everybody on board, together with a common goal, behind a motivated and able CC (which they are), and we might just get there.
Alternatively, if we ever end up with several hundred wotsisnames who say they'll only join when the battle is won, we may as well all retire now!!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London
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The way I'm feeling, I'm ready to retire!! Absolutely shagged! And it's definately not the wifes fault!
Oh well, a couple of days off and I'll be in the crew room, all keen and up for it again.
Actually, a pretty stirring speach by Norman on another post might get everyone motivated. Right now, my head hurts and I'm going to bed. Just have to tell the kids to be quiet. Again.
Oh well, a couple of days off and I'll be in the crew room, all keen and up for it again.
Actually, a pretty stirring speach by Norman on another post might get everyone motivated. Right now, my head hurts and I'm going to bed. Just have to tell the kids to be quiet. Again.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
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Mr Ree
It's nothing to do with BALPA having the gumph to say no....it's about them thinking that what the management offer is not reasonable and having a mandate to escalate beyond negotiation if an empasse is met. That mandate is having sufficient members all wanting more, and prepared to back their CC in the process. The CC will then make a judgement as to whether further manoeuvring using their mandate could yield a positive result. Only then will they recommend a 'No' vote and put the ball back into management's court.
It seems that the Easy pilots have a significant number amongst them who still don't quite understand that this is how it works and it's not a case of BALPA lacking 'gumph', merely that they (your Company Council, NOT BALPA) have no further 'levers' to use to show management that they want more and are prepared to stand united to get it. It's a catch 22 until everyone realises that only through a united front (be it BALPA or any other body) can they actually say 'NO' to a management offer and then be in a position to do something to achieve their demands. All the time non-members try to judge BALPA in easyJet based on results whilst they don't have a mandate, they are bound to think it is not worth 1%. It takes a bit more forethought and some faith.
Good luck to you all.
PP
It would be great if Balpa had the gumph to say the deal sucks, vote no, and lets get a better one. But they never do, or is it can't do?
It seems that the Easy pilots have a significant number amongst them who still don't quite understand that this is how it works and it's not a case of BALPA lacking 'gumph', merely that they (your Company Council, NOT BALPA) have no further 'levers' to use to show management that they want more and are prepared to stand united to get it. It's a catch 22 until everyone realises that only through a united front (be it BALPA or any other body) can they actually say 'NO' to a management offer and then be in a position to do something to achieve their demands. All the time non-members try to judge BALPA in easyJet based on results whilst they don't have a mandate, they are bound to think it is not worth 1%. It takes a bit more forethought and some faith.
Good luck to you all.
PP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: OMDB
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Guys,
I was one of those 230 pilots who left ( March 2005), to move to the desert, did the different basing ploy on upgrade (LTN and BFS) worked the random roster and 6 and 3, not 5254 (although I voted against it!)
I did just under 4 years at EZY, fun sometimes, kna**kered most of the time, and thought that if I didn't leave I would either lose the medical ( thou fatigue) or kill someone/myself due a mistake(thou fatigue)
Good things about EZY,
The training is brilliant ( 3rd airline now, still the best for initial and recurrents by a long,long way)
Most flight and cabin crew were great to work with, personalibly and professionally.
Money wasn't bad,( althou not enough for the pound of flesh they wanted off you!)
Good equipment (althou the older 300's were more challenging!)
A few more but not anything to write home about.
Bad things,
Knack**ed!
Fatigued!
Roster instability,
Long 4 and 6 sector days (2 sector 8 hour duty qualifies as a half day, so the management plegde that office/admin staff should have the same number of days off/leave as they sit on their asr*s is a bit rich)
Crew food is a joke
staff travel is f**king appalling( based in BFS for the command, and not being able to get home on your days off really winds you up, not to mention the other half)
A lot more too mention, but I haven't got all day
So in conclusion,
I now work for EK, and as regular ppruners know, there is a lot writen about their T and C's lately, not that great compared to BA/Virgin etc. and quite a few thinking about leaving and hence asking me about EZY,
It takes me less than 5 mins to disuade them them that that move would not be in their best interests, to put it mildly!!!
There have been 5 others join EK from easy in the last 6 months, 4 of them were left seat, taking right seats for a minimum of 3 years, it not be the best around but I haven't heard any regrets from any of them! We do work to the 900 hr limit, but the Duty time are less, the days off are more, and we have a life outside our cockpits!!
Therefore if you must join EZY, do so, get great training, get some hours and get out as soon as possible!!
And PS don't blame BALPA, they are doing the best they can with 51% membership
I was one of those 230 pilots who left ( March 2005), to move to the desert, did the different basing ploy on upgrade (LTN and BFS) worked the random roster and 6 and 3, not 5254 (although I voted against it!)
I did just under 4 years at EZY, fun sometimes, kna**kered most of the time, and thought that if I didn't leave I would either lose the medical ( thou fatigue) or kill someone/myself due a mistake(thou fatigue)
Good things about EZY,
The training is brilliant ( 3rd airline now, still the best for initial and recurrents by a long,long way)
Most flight and cabin crew were great to work with, personalibly and professionally.
Money wasn't bad,( althou not enough for the pound of flesh they wanted off you!)
Good equipment (althou the older 300's were more challenging!)
A few more but not anything to write home about.
Bad things,
Knack**ed!
Fatigued!
Roster instability,
Long 4 and 6 sector days (2 sector 8 hour duty qualifies as a half day, so the management plegde that office/admin staff should have the same number of days off/leave as they sit on their asr*s is a bit rich)
Crew food is a joke
staff travel is f**king appalling( based in BFS for the command, and not being able to get home on your days off really winds you up, not to mention the other half)
A lot more too mention, but I haven't got all day
So in conclusion,
I now work for EK, and as regular ppruners know, there is a lot writen about their T and C's lately, not that great compared to BA/Virgin etc. and quite a few thinking about leaving and hence asking me about EZY,
It takes me less than 5 mins to disuade them them that that move would not be in their best interests, to put it mildly!!!
There have been 5 others join EK from easy in the last 6 months, 4 of them were left seat, taking right seats for a minimum of 3 years, it not be the best around but I haven't heard any regrets from any of them! We do work to the 900 hr limit, but the Duty time are less, the days off are more, and we have a life outside our cockpits!!
Therefore if you must join EZY, do so, get great training, get some hours and get out as soon as possible!!
And PS don't blame BALPA, they are doing the best they can with 51% membership
Join Date: May 2005
Location: u.k.
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I was about to post all of the above but you beat me to it!!!
Memories of Easy;
POSITIVES=good training,quick hours
NEGATIVES=permantly feeling knackered,orange propaganda(labour spin stlye)
Memories of Easy;
POSITIVES=good training,quick hours
NEGATIVES=permantly feeling knackered,orange propaganda(labour spin stlye)
Join Date: Aug 2000
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haughtney1
Why would one have to be based in Doncaster? With the fleet expansion plans one could be based at Manchester or Gatwick (are they big enough for you?) or any of the other Thomsonfly (nee Britannia) bases. Not that that was the issue being mentioned. It was more about why pilots are leaving easy, not the merits of my airline and it's bases.
The point I was making was more about how a united front is the only way to get what you want in easy and as pointed out, 51% membership of BALPA sends a clear message to the easy management.....do what you want as we are in no position to fight you!
PP
Why would one have to be based in Doncaster? With the fleet expansion plans one could be based at Manchester or Gatwick (are they big enough for you?) or any of the other Thomsonfly (nee Britannia) bases. Not that that was the issue being mentioned. It was more about why pilots are leaving easy, not the merits of my airline and it's bases.
The point I was making was more about how a united front is the only way to get what you want in easy and as pointed out, 51% membership of BALPA sends a clear message to the easy management.....do what you want as we are in no position to fight you!
PP
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
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Ummm Pete...dont be sooo touchy...my tounge was firmly in my cheek
As it happens Im based at LGW and perfectly happy
Seriously..for as short a time as possible...I know from a couple of 737 drivers interviewed; and they report that Thomsonfly are pushing guys to go to Doncaster (No mention was offered of Manchester or otherwise) as this is a new base with a key focus. As you said this thread is about Easy...which is why certain Orange guys/gals havent found the T'Fly offer (for Doncaster) as enticing as it could potentially be.
I agree with you about BALPA, T'Fly crew certainly benefit from a united front.
As it happens Im based at LGW and perfectly happy
Seriously..for as short a time as possible...I know from a couple of 737 drivers interviewed; and they report that Thomsonfly are pushing guys to go to Doncaster (No mention was offered of Manchester or otherwise) as this is a new base with a key focus. As you said this thread is about Easy...which is why certain Orange guys/gals havent found the T'Fly offer (for Doncaster) as enticing as it could potentially be.
I agree with you about BALPA, T'Fly crew certainly benefit from a united front.
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Join BALPA now!! (Please) With the tax relief the cost per sector can be measured as a few pence. I too voted no for the past deals but firmly believe you've got to be in to win(ge)!
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I understand that the company have offered nothing as far as the pay negociations are concerned - a zero cost option. That is how much they appreciate our efforts is it no wonder people are leaving. As a previous BALPA cynic, now we have a new CC, it's time to get behind Nick C and make a stand. Surely all we are asking for is a fair deal. Nobody wants to see aircraft sat on the ground but management be warned if you don't think that such a mindset exists .
With any luck now the "people person" that is RW is moving on the new boss can make this the airline what it should be.
With any luck now the "people person" that is RW is moving on the new boss can make this the airline what it should be.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Well, the employment market is red hot, pilots leaving in droves or planning to leave soon, the company about to announce a fair profit in line with expectations, the price of oil falling for the first time in ages, lastly our wages having already fallen well behind those of all our competitors with no career structure in place, loads of new aircraft arriving next year so you would think it would be a "no brainer" wouldn't it?
After all, better keep the share price up when RW leaves.
Unfortunately, easyJet has never done the obvious and so often has paid a huge price for being naive and foolish, so we shall see what they do this time!
After all, better keep the share price up when RW leaves.
Unfortunately, easyJet has never done the obvious and so often has paid a huge price for being naive and foolish, so we shall see what they do this time!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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How stupid can they get? With the oil price doing about 800fpm down and the pilot market doing about 1000fpm up, the longer they let it run, the more it's gonna hurt.
When will they learn?
Cheers,
mcdhu
When will they learn?
Cheers,
mcdhu