Thomsonfly Direct Entry Training Captains a question.. Why?
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Thomsonfly Direct Entry Training Captains a question.. Why?
Thomsonfly are advertising for and taking on Direct Entry Training Captains (TRE/TRI and Line).
Before I apply does anybody know the reason why they require direct entry trainers? Seems very strange, this is just the same established Britannia Airways renamed after all.
I was under the impression that an established airline like Britannia/Thomsonfly had a ready supply of experienced pilots to take such Training posts from internal sources? (if not 737 pilots then from the 757 Fleet as it’s all one airline now, isn’t it?)
Surely there are Union/Workforce issues as Training Posts are normally fairly sort after positions within most airlines? You don’t see BA or even other LoCo’s advertising for Direct Entry TRE’s so why Thomsonfly?
Most established airlines don’t need to consider Direct Entry Captains never mind about Direct Entry Trainers so I thought I’d ask the question? Wouldn’t want to enter a hornet’s nest!
Before I apply does anybody know the reason why they require direct entry trainers? Seems very strange, this is just the same established Britannia Airways renamed after all.
I was under the impression that an established airline like Britannia/Thomsonfly had a ready supply of experienced pilots to take such Training posts from internal sources? (if not 737 pilots then from the 757 Fleet as it’s all one airline now, isn’t it?)
Surely there are Union/Workforce issues as Training Posts are normally fairly sort after positions within most airlines? You don’t see BA or even other LoCo’s advertising for Direct Entry TRE’s so why Thomsonfly?
Most established airlines don’t need to consider Direct Entry Captains never mind about Direct Entry Trainers so I thought I’d ask the question? Wouldn’t want to enter a hornet’s nest!
Last edited by Diversion Checklist; 31st Aug 2005 at 14:31.
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I was under the same impression that the T’s & C’s are now identical on both fleets. So if this is correct the question remains..
Why the direct entry Trainers?
I always thought that Britannia (Thomsonfly as it is now) had exceptionally high standards of training, mainly because it had a high quality, high experience pilot workforce to select it Training pilots from, has this changed in some way?
I know of one direct entry TC who has just joined, I’m sure others will follow. Personally I’m not sure if I’d want to be associated with such an operation unless there were very good grounds for such a policy?
Why the direct entry Trainers?
I always thought that Britannia (Thomsonfly as it is now) had exceptionally high standards of training, mainly because it had a high quality, high experience pilot workforce to select it Training pilots from, has this changed in some way?
I know of one direct entry TC who has just joined, I’m sure others will follow. Personally I’m not sure if I’d want to be associated with such an operation unless there were very good grounds for such a policy?
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I do believe present TFly pilots have right to bid for these positions ahead of new applicants, including promotion to a training post. A chap I used to fly with finds life on the 75/767 more attractive though, even as an f/o.
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Thanks, if your correct I guess that the current outside recruitment of TRE/TRI's is due to a lack of applicants from internal sources.
Anyone with in-depth knowledge of the Thomsonfly workings care to comment?
Anyone with in-depth knowledge of the Thomsonfly workings care to comment?
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Training is a specialized position, and training Captains are no exception.
Several reasons...
Rapid planned fleet expansion, which requires additional trainers, problems with recent upgraded guys so the airline management wants those from outside to have an unbiased look, lack of suitable folks from line flying, etc.
Direct entry folks with the requisite experience will always find a position, whether the present line folks like it or not...and from some of the comments here, some don't.
Several reasons...
Rapid planned fleet expansion, which requires additional trainers, problems with recent upgraded guys so the airline management wants those from outside to have an unbiased look, lack of suitable folks from line flying, etc.
Direct entry folks with the requisite experience will always find a position, whether the present line folks like it or not...and from some of the comments here, some don't.
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You will find it comes down to not enough internal applicants. Individuals in Thomsonfly have to bid for what they want. If you don't bid for a 737 command as a 75/76 F/O then you won't be offered the chance of evaluation/ command course for the 737.
Plenty have chosen to bide their time as F/Os on the 75/76 for a variety of reasons. Many prefer the charter lifestyle and love the longhaul on the 767, even more so than the chance of a command on a 737. That is their right.
Also, many will hold on in the right seat on the 75/76 due to their position on the seniority list with regards to 75/76 commands, taking a gamble that they will only be 'xx' months/ years away from a command on the fleet of their preference, that is their right. This bunch have the most difficult choice IMHO; don't take the command on offer here today and hold out for the perceived better option in a rapidly changing airline. We all know what can happen to an airline's plans in short spaces of time.......
Others don't fancy 'low cost' operations on a 737, that is their right under the bidding system and they would rather stay a charter F/O than a low cost captain.
Yet more of them just don't want to give up longhaul. That is their right.
The same applies for training positions; lifestyle choices sometimes mean that pilots are willing to sacrifice the career option for the sake of family, base, fleet etc etc.
What you have to remember is that existing pilots have come from a very strong, long established carrier that was Britannia. This 'new' option has not been as obviously desirable as an outsider may think. This is why the company are recruiting external captains and trainers. It is nothing to do with lack of quality as 411a tries to imply. It's nothing to do with 'fresh' views or 'problem' upgraders. Upgraders in Britannia/ Thomsonfly do not get upgraded without months and months of scrutiny and have one of the longest and most respected upgrade courses on the market. There is no lack of suitable F/Os on the line. The pilot management are constantly trying to get more F/Os to bid for upgrade and fleet move to the 737 as they know this is their best source of captains. These guys are good enough, with the odd exception, with well documented and known training histories (some as long as 7 years) and would easily handle the upgrade should they choose to bid for it. It's a simple fact that they are not getting enough internal applicants to fill the posts. That is why they are recruiting externally.
Each to his own, but I had been in Britannia for less than two years when I reached the minimum requirements for command application. I then tactically bid for it at a base not of my first choice, but one of the only 737 Thomsonfly bases where I knew there were command vacancies. I was offered evaluation and then a command/ conversion course which I completed earlier this month. I say tactically bid, because all along I have been trying to second guess the company and it's plans. Half way through my command course they announced the next expansion bases for the 737 fleet and my number one choice was on that list. I bid straight back and have secured a command, in a well respected company after only 2 years service, at my first choice base on a great aeroplane. Again though, it was everyones choice to bid or not to bid and I for one respect their right. Many have commented that it was too much of a risk to bid without seeing all the cards on the table and I agree that for some that is a fair comment. Those who went at 737 fleet start-up took the greatest risk, hence the only pilots who moved were those who were getting a command out of it; the company were never going to get many F/Os swap over on lower terms and conditions (now harmonised).
So it comes down to personal choices and individuals will make those based on their own position. I have always been of the opinion that if a command is on offer you grab it as you never know what is going to happen around the corner. Also in my opinion, I think the 737 fleet is going to grow and the 757 fleet is going to contract. I think the 737 fleet is going to be doing the new 'mixed model' charter and low cost, with NGs doing the 'longer' charter shorthaul routes and Classics doing the European and city destinations. I personally think that I am going to be doing pretty much the same job, with a command, at the same base, on a 737 as I was before as an F/O on the 757. All I have given up is longhaul, which I think is a small price to pay to get command. However, longhaul will return for me and the others who moved fleet, it's just a matter of time.
Hope this dispels the myth and explains a few reasons why some of us have made choices in the way we have.
PP
Plenty have chosen to bide their time as F/Os on the 75/76 for a variety of reasons. Many prefer the charter lifestyle and love the longhaul on the 767, even more so than the chance of a command on a 737. That is their right.
Also, many will hold on in the right seat on the 75/76 due to their position on the seniority list with regards to 75/76 commands, taking a gamble that they will only be 'xx' months/ years away from a command on the fleet of their preference, that is their right. This bunch have the most difficult choice IMHO; don't take the command on offer here today and hold out for the perceived better option in a rapidly changing airline. We all know what can happen to an airline's plans in short spaces of time.......
Others don't fancy 'low cost' operations on a 737, that is their right under the bidding system and they would rather stay a charter F/O than a low cost captain.
Yet more of them just don't want to give up longhaul. That is their right.
The same applies for training positions; lifestyle choices sometimes mean that pilots are willing to sacrifice the career option for the sake of family, base, fleet etc etc.
What you have to remember is that existing pilots have come from a very strong, long established carrier that was Britannia. This 'new' option has not been as obviously desirable as an outsider may think. This is why the company are recruiting external captains and trainers. It is nothing to do with lack of quality as 411a tries to imply. It's nothing to do with 'fresh' views or 'problem' upgraders. Upgraders in Britannia/ Thomsonfly do not get upgraded without months and months of scrutiny and have one of the longest and most respected upgrade courses on the market. There is no lack of suitable F/Os on the line. The pilot management are constantly trying to get more F/Os to bid for upgrade and fleet move to the 737 as they know this is their best source of captains. These guys are good enough, with the odd exception, with well documented and known training histories (some as long as 7 years) and would easily handle the upgrade should they choose to bid for it. It's a simple fact that they are not getting enough internal applicants to fill the posts. That is why they are recruiting externally.
Each to his own, but I had been in Britannia for less than two years when I reached the minimum requirements for command application. I then tactically bid for it at a base not of my first choice, but one of the only 737 Thomsonfly bases where I knew there were command vacancies. I was offered evaluation and then a command/ conversion course which I completed earlier this month. I say tactically bid, because all along I have been trying to second guess the company and it's plans. Half way through my command course they announced the next expansion bases for the 737 fleet and my number one choice was on that list. I bid straight back and have secured a command, in a well respected company after only 2 years service, at my first choice base on a great aeroplane. Again though, it was everyones choice to bid or not to bid and I for one respect their right. Many have commented that it was too much of a risk to bid without seeing all the cards on the table and I agree that for some that is a fair comment. Those who went at 737 fleet start-up took the greatest risk, hence the only pilots who moved were those who were getting a command out of it; the company were never going to get many F/Os swap over on lower terms and conditions (now harmonised).
So it comes down to personal choices and individuals will make those based on their own position. I have always been of the opinion that if a command is on offer you grab it as you never know what is going to happen around the corner. Also in my opinion, I think the 737 fleet is going to grow and the 757 fleet is going to contract. I think the 737 fleet is going to be doing the new 'mixed model' charter and low cost, with NGs doing the 'longer' charter shorthaul routes and Classics doing the European and city destinations. I personally think that I am going to be doing pretty much the same job, with a command, at the same base, on a 737 as I was before as an F/O on the 757. All I have given up is longhaul, which I think is a small price to pay to get command. However, longhaul will return for me and the others who moved fleet, it's just a matter of time.
Hope this dispels the myth and explains a few reasons why some of us have made choices in the way we have.
PP
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PP - Useful answer,thanks.
I understand that some of the recent direct entry Captains are not making the grade. What happens to these unfortunates. Do the get booted out with a request for the £20,000 bond or just move into the RHS?
I understand that some of the recent direct entry Captains are not making the grade. What happens to these unfortunates. Do the get booted out with a request for the £20,000 bond or just move into the RHS?
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Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your questions. I don't know what happens to them and wasn't aware that there was a £20k bond. I heard it was £10k, but I stand to be corrected, perhaps by someone who has recently joined........
PP
Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your questions. I don't know what happens to them and wasn't aware that there was a £20k bond. I heard it was £10k, but I stand to be corrected, perhaps by someone who has recently joined........
PP
