Airindia Express Grounded
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Airindia Express Grounded
HEARD AIR INDIA EXPRESS THE LOW COST CARRIER HAS BEEN GROUNDED, 9 PILOTS LEFT THE EXPRESS TO JOIN THE ORIGNAL COMPANY SAHARA DUE TO BAD WORKING CONDITIONS, CAN ANY ONE CONFIRM ?
EVEN COUPLE OF PILOTS LEFT AIR INDIA THE ORIGINAL COMPANY DUE TO WORKING CONDITIONS ,AND AIR INDIA IS CUTTING ITS FLIGHTS DUE TO NON AVAILIBILITY OF PILOTS.
EVEN COUPLE OF PILOTS LEFT AIR INDIA THE ORIGINAL COMPANY DUE TO WORKING CONDITIONS ,AND AIR INDIA IS CUTTING ITS FLIGHTS DUE TO NON AVAILIBILITY OF PILOTS.
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Can not confirm your original post but it has not come as a surprise, India is becomming saturated with large orders for a/c from existing airlines and the prospect of more airlines planning to start can only add to the shortage of national pilots.
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As per local media reports, 6 Pilots and 2 co-pilots have left without serving the "madatory" 6 months notice period. Three flights each from BOM and DEL are cancelled till the end of the month. But the operations from the main bases - TRV/COK and CCJ are unaffected.
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Close to twelve pilots have left for their original company(Sahara). Air India has written to the Indian aviation authorities to ground the pilots for causing grievance to the public.(There is some law to this effect as reported by the media).
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Air India has written to the Indian aviation authorities to ground the pilots for causing grievance to the public
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HA HA .....When Air India poached them from Sahara in the first instance, they were not too bothered, I guess about causing grievance to either the Sahara passengers or the lossess incurred by Sahara who had to cancel nearly 40% of their flights.
Same old story - you become sentimental only when you start bleeding yourselves, esp since the peak travel time to the middle East has now arrived!.
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HA HA .....When Air India poached them from Sahara in the first instance, they were not too bothered, I guess about causing grievance to either the Sahara passengers or the lossess incurred by Sahara who had to cancel nearly 40% of their flights.
Same old story - you become sentimental only when you start bleeding yourselves, esp since the peak travel time to the middle East has now arrived!.
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hi guys
slightly off topic.i posted the same in the asian and indian forum but got no solid replies so posting it here.i need the info desperately.
As you know indian dgca reduced the flying requirement for cpl from 250 to 200 hrs including reducing pilot in command time to 100 hrs.but this is for cpl only.But if one wants to do an cpl with ir the dgca website says 150 hrs pic time.i thought IR is an endorsement u do over ur cpl license.I am confused could someone please clarify. U need 150 or 100 hrs pic?
slightly off topic.i posted the same in the asian and indian forum but got no solid replies so posting it here.i need the info desperately.
As you know indian dgca reduced the flying requirement for cpl from 250 to 200 hrs including reducing pilot in command time to 100 hrs.but this is for cpl only.But if one wants to do an cpl with ir the dgca website says 150 hrs pic time.i thought IR is an endorsement u do over ur cpl license.I am confused could someone please clarify. U need 150 or 100 hrs pic?
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why the 150 hrs when you require 200 ,the hours for your IR could be a part of 200 required so you may not have to do 200 + IR flying.why don't you call the DGCA or check with the local flight school.The DGCA site may not be updated.
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HI GUYS TWO MORE PILOTS HAVE RESIGNED AND THIS TIME FROM AIR INDIA ,AS USUAL EVEN AFTER GIVIN 6 MONTHS NOTICE AIR INDIA HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT THEIR RESIG NATIONS ,WITHOUT ASSIGNING ANY REASONS ,THINK ITS BECOMING DIFFICULT FOR AIR INDIA TO KEEP THEIR PILOTS IN THE COMPANY WITH THE PRESENT WORKING CONDITIONS . 
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Sahara bent over, and got them back! Its time the pilots also showed some sence rather than jumping airlines for every extra $5.
Then again airline managments never learn, look at Jet's ATR fleet; grounded coz those poor guys would not get upgrades to the 737NGs so they all jumped to Kingfisher & Spice.
divinesoul where are you flying USA, Aus, India ? pity you; dealing with DGCA
Then again airline managments never learn, look at Jet's ATR fleet; grounded coz those poor guys would not get upgrades to the 737NGs so they all jumped to Kingfisher & Spice.
divinesoul where are you flying USA, Aus, India ? pity you; dealing with DGCA
Last edited by Left Wing; 26th Jul 2005 at 16:23.
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Air India Express
Hey all......OK.....here are the facts....!!About one year ago 10 pilots left(read.....deserted)an airline called Alliance Air(a subsidiary of Indian Airlines).Why I say "deserted" and not "left" is because these 10 left the Airline without the mandatory one month's notice and more importantly,they left the company when it needed them most and the flying was real hectic.Also,they managed to COMPLETELY sabotage the company's immidiate plans to induct brand new A319's into the ageing 732 fleet.All these 10 left for Sahara.....purely to fly the latest NG's at any cost!!Which they did......!!! All these pilots were now converted on the NG's at the cost of Sahara,with the understanding that they would serve the company for at least 5 years in lieu of the USD$ 40,000 bond which is normally the conversion cost recoverable by the company.Less than 6 months later....(and 50 to 150 hours on the NG's later.....depending on the pilot),in comes Air India Express with its so called international flying lure,and so on and so forth. Sooooooooo.....what do these "Tenacious Ten" do....?? They make all kinds of promises and tell all kinds of tales......this time to the AIX managment......and manage to convince the AIX ppl that they NEVER EVER signed ANY bond whatsoever with Sahara and were NG qualified and ready to fly!!!! It was also stated that their conversion money was paid for!! AND that ALL of them were ready for TRI upgrades. As would any start up airline desperate for qualified pilots do.....AIX hired these famous 10 with the lure of upgrades etc etc without cross checking all the facts. As it turns out, none of these 10 had more than 120 hours TT on the NG,and had cooked up a whole bunch of lies in order to make their entry into AIX....( u need a MINIMUM of 500 hrs PIC on type in India in order to qualify for a check airman)....Three months later......these wheelers an dealers realise that the AIX deal generally did'nt agree with their flying and began to make re-deals with their "parent"(step??) company......SAHARA. WOWOW.Having promised Sahara the return of the entire renegade gang.....these boys managed to pick up a cool raise of approx USD$ 2,000 PM per pilot.........
.....!!! So what do we have here.......a $40,000 endorsment,a $9,000 PM job flying the NG's as PIC........and all for what......???? For nothing.....except for a lotta white lies,a lot of back stabbing,at least 3 busted bonds and contracts and no concience....!! Now AIX.....which had come to depend on these boys....(there being only a total of 15 captains),is left high n dry and at least one of their spankin new airplanes sits in a desolate bay in cochin for want of a Captain....Of course they will bounce back....as they have so many times before,but it gets one thinking.Is this what we are coming to?? Is this the face of the Airline pilot 5 years from now.Is this gonna be the slimy and manipulative wheeler dealer i want my family to be flown by on a dark rainy night....??? I think not. And i would say the same to all of u fellas out there.......please work with a concience in this profession of ours.After all....that and trust are all the lifelines we have now for our survival....!!! Respect and nurture them,for that is what Airline Pilots are made of.Please ban and blacklist such pilots. The DGCA(India) has done just that today.Tailwinds and blue skies always..........
.PS.....u may email me if u wish on [email protected]. 
.....!!! So what do we have here.......a $40,000 endorsment,a $9,000 PM job flying the NG's as PIC........and all for what......???? For nothing.....except for a lotta white lies,a lot of back stabbing,at least 3 busted bonds and contracts and no concience....!! Now AIX.....which had come to depend on these boys....(there being only a total of 15 captains),is left high n dry and at least one of their spankin new airplanes sits in a desolate bay in cochin for want of a Captain....Of course they will bounce back....as they have so many times before,but it gets one thinking.Is this what we are coming to?? Is this the face of the Airline pilot 5 years from now.Is this gonna be the slimy and manipulative wheeler dealer i want my family to be flown by on a dark rainy night....??? I think not. And i would say the same to all of u fellas out there.......please work with a concience in this profession of ours.After all....that and trust are all the lifelines we have now for our survival....!!! Respect and nurture them,for that is what Airline Pilots are made of.Please ban and blacklist such pilots. The DGCA(India) has done just that today.Tailwinds and blue skies always.......... .PS.....u may email me if u wish on [email protected].
Last edited by boeingdream787; 26th Jul 2005 at 18:23.
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yeh
yeh with the union gone air india management has gone wild,doing things as they like busting all agreements......no one is happy except the mafia..............lets see how long it goes on.....like this with them and when are they going to realize that no pilots are left with them ,its the same with engeeneers heard some of them have joined kuwait and qatar......
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Well if the union got busted, that was due to some guys being over smart! And now alteast we dont have too many last minute disruptions because the PICs grand niece was offloaded because a revenue pax (foolishly?) turned up on a full flight at the last minute (hey - dont u realise We take our "un paid" holidays at the same time as you?)and other similar incidents!
Air India Express people leaving appear to have nothing to do with the absence of the AI union. I doubt think they have the same terms anyway with the AI guys!
Air India Express people leaving appear to have nothing to do with the absence of the AI union. I doubt think they have the same terms anyway with the AI guys!
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PAY THE PILOTS.....!!!
I fully agree with rsoman.The AIX pilots leavin has ABSOLUTELY nothin to do wit the IPG union of yonder years.And please be informed that although some of the AIX pilots are very VASTLY more experienced than some of the AI pilots(no pun intended)......the AIX pilots are on a VERY different deal than the AI fellas.......(i have close buddies in both airlines..............).AIX is GROSSLY underpaying some of its experienced pilots.....!!!! Thats sad,cause then pilots look for greener pastures,as has been the case so far.....!!!!!.All AIX gotta do is pay its pilots at par with their 777, AI counterparts and u would have an unwritten retention bond with the 737 pilots...........and believe me thats not too much.......!!!!
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Just because the airline is low cost that does not mean low pay ! Thats what AIX and Deccan think is the correct way to run a LCC. In such a case how can you keep the pilots,cabin crew etc etc.
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AIX is Not Legal..........!!
I fully agree with Leftwing.In any airline....be it Low cost(AIX,Deccan etc) or Full service(AI,IA etc etc),or even for that matter the "Luxury Liner"class(Emirates etc),you have a Fixed Cost Structure(FCS).This is the Non negotiable part of an airlines expense platform.This forms approx 85% of an airlines TOTAL outgoings.The FCS includes but is not limited to expenses like Crew salaries(including Cabin Crew),Fuel Costs,Landing Charges,Aircraft rentals and maintenance,Navigation charges,Parking charges,In Flight catering(to a great extent),Ground Support charges etc etc to name but a few...!!! The other 15% of all airline expenses is called the Variable Cost Structure or the VCS.This is the fun part...!!THIS is the only platform where airlines can legally show ANY and ALL savings.So legally....in order to post a no loss situation,a low cost carrier can only cut a maximum of 15% off of a given route off of a full service airline(all other things remaining constant...!!).This VCS is limited to agents fees,ticketing fees,FDC "perks",Luxury meals in flight,sponsors,in flight magazines etc etc.
Now this should clear up the muck quite a bit should'nt it.You cannot post a profit on ANY account report off of the Crew Salaries(which figures on top of the Non Negotiable part of an airlines outgoings)under any circumstances....!!! Thats cause when showing the initial balance sheet or the flowchart to enable clearance of their ATO permits from the Aviation authorities these airlines HAVE to post a Fixed uniform salary for their captains and copilots(which is a fixed ratio.....NEVER EXCEEDING......that of the National carrier,which is why salary hikes in IA and AI are sooo much more complicated than those of other airlines).When airlines show a payment of 100 units to their FDC but underpay them say only 80 units........THAT my friends is where they have the REAL albiet HIDDEN airline profits....!!!! .And FDC salaries my good people comprise a kool 45% of the total FCS.......!!! Hehehehe......think about THAT the next time u go for your wage negs.Think about how much u're being shafted by the airline structure,and how much u can actually negotiate....!!! This is where AIX comes in.They absolutely CANNOT expect to underpay their FDC and hope to get away with it...!!Cause its not legal my friends.....just not legal!! KIT.
Now this should clear up the muck quite a bit should'nt it.You cannot post a profit on ANY account report off of the Crew Salaries(which figures on top of the Non Negotiable part of an airlines outgoings)under any circumstances....!!! Thats cause when showing the initial balance sheet or the flowchart to enable clearance of their ATO permits from the Aviation authorities these airlines HAVE to post a Fixed uniform salary for their captains and copilots(which is a fixed ratio.....NEVER EXCEEDING......that of the National carrier,which is why salary hikes in IA and AI are sooo much more complicated than those of other airlines).When airlines show a payment of 100 units to their FDC but underpay them say only 80 units........THAT my friends is where they have the REAL albiet HIDDEN airline profits....!!!!
.And FDC salaries my good people comprise a kool 45% of the total FCS.......!!! Hehehehe......think about THAT the next time u go for your wage negs.Think about how much u're being shafted by the airline structure,and how much u can actually negotiate....!!! This is where AIX comes in.They absolutely CANNOT expect to underpay their FDC and hope to get away with it...!!Cause its not legal my friends.....just not legal!! KIT.
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AirIndia Express grounded
IX Grounded
Well.... it was all waiting to happen...no planng...buying in mercenaries.... so..you get paid back in the same coin...ha ha.
Like the way AI went crying to DGCA....but all these 'new nutty' ideas and invoking the aircraft manual for cancellation of the licences portends ill for the community...this is the very font from where the idea came to dismantle the IPG..for quick gains ofcourse...
Boeingdream787 extols the numbers for wage negotiation....well ... hear this..all the phirang pilots are just being offered a fat $12k annual bonus [posted on the fltjobs]...hear hear Old747Man! This is destroying the Company [ or whatever is left of it].
Juz chk this out ye Boeingdream787... the LCC model for AI Xpress cannot work... with all ur tech jargon for making it illegal... for a stage length of 3.5 hr bet gulf/ind...and avg cost of fuel abt 150cents/usg with a 2t/hr consp...gives some ridiculous base figures which can never churn profit....with a payload penalty [ due poor plng again] they are restricted to 160 pax while the model was worked for 189....you can see the results...
Anyway....its heads they win and tails we loose situation for AI with its upstart sibling AIX...
Cheers!!
Well.... it was all waiting to happen...no planng...buying in mercenaries.... so..you get paid back in the same coin...ha ha.
Like the way AI went crying to DGCA....but all these 'new nutty' ideas and invoking the aircraft manual for cancellation of the licences portends ill for the community...this is the very font from where the idea came to dismantle the IPG..for quick gains ofcourse...
Boeingdream787 extols the numbers for wage negotiation....well ... hear this..all the phirang pilots are just being offered a fat $12k annual bonus [posted on the fltjobs]...hear hear Old747Man! This is destroying the Company [ or whatever is left of it].
Juz chk this out ye Boeingdream787... the LCC model for AI Xpress cannot work... with all ur tech jargon for making it illegal... for a stage length of 3.5 hr bet gulf/ind...and avg cost of fuel abt 150cents/usg with a 2t/hr consp...gives some ridiculous base figures which can never churn profit....with a payload penalty [ due poor plng again] they are restricted to 160 pax while the model was worked for 189....you can see the results...
Anyway....its heads they win and tails we loose situation for AI with its upstart sibling AIX...
Cheers!!
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BOM-DXB on AIX
Hey robin747.I never said that the AIX model was meant to post a profit or for that matter even work....!!! I was proving just the contrary.Secondly the price of gas is not 150c/usg but approx $3/usg.And the average consumption of the jet in question(B738) is approx 2.6t/hr and not 2t/hr.Dunno what u were trying to prove but u certainly wont get there with those figures...!!And BTW robin747.....given those figures ALONE the cost of a BOM-DXB turns out to a MINIMUM of $30.....!!!!!! This is ONLY the cost of fuel!!! Again i dunno WHAT you were trying to prove but i just thought i should correct ur figures given the fact that I had so clearly mentioned in my earlier post that AIX just COULD NOT profit anyways without cutting into the Pilots salaries......which should have a fixed base....which also makes its payment structure illegal.Mebbe u were also trying to reiterate the same.Cheers anyways.
P.S......What do u think an airline should do if 3/4ths of its total P1 strength leaves it suddenly without the 6 month or even without a ONE days notice.....and that results in cancellation/transfers of 1/3rd of its sked???Leaving AT LEAST one brand new AOG for want of a P1.I sure as hell would go seeking whatsoever help I could rope in buddy....!! Legal or otherwise.Remember, alls fair in love and poaching..........lolol.
P.S......What do u think an airline should do if 3/4ths of its total P1 strength leaves it suddenly without the 6 month or even without a ONE days notice.....and that results in cancellation/transfers of 1/3rd of its sked???Leaving AT LEAST one brand new AOG for want of a P1.I sure as hell would go seeking whatsoever help I could rope in buddy....!! Legal or otherwise.Remember, alls fair in love and poaching..........lolol.
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AI poaches and then cries! DGCA changes rules for poor newbies and gives them S*%# when they return to back to India to get Indian CPLs.
The Indian govt does mind paying expats top dollar but will NOT change the system to make it simple so our own boys take up FO & SO jobs faster and upgrade the Sr. FOs.
The students that return from USA/Aus are treated as if they came back from a holiday. Is India to become another UAE, Hong Kong, Japan with almost zero local pilots and huge money being given to the expats.
PLS DONT GET ME WRONG DEAR XPATS, I AM ONE OUTSIDE INDIA.
But what about the students in a country of 1 billion with huge growth potential.
Look at USA and EU no green card or no right to work in EU means no pilot jobs!
The Indian govt does mind paying expats top dollar but will NOT change the system to make it simple so our own boys take up FO & SO jobs faster and upgrade the Sr. FOs.
The students that return from USA/Aus are treated as if they came back from a holiday. Is India to become another UAE, Hong Kong, Japan with almost zero local pilots and huge money being given to the expats.
PLS DONT GET ME WRONG DEAR XPATS, I AM ONE OUTSIDE INDIA.
But what about the students in a country of 1 billion with huge growth potential.
Look at USA and EU no green card or no right to work in EU means no pilot jobs!
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I think some issues are being mixed up here.
Topic deals with AIX.
Upgrading of senior F/Os to Captains instead of taking expats for Captains is an issue with AI not AIX. I doubt any senior AI F/Os will want to shift from a 747 or 310 fleet to a NG and that too leaving their BOM or DEL base to come to COK?
AIXs biggest market right now is TRV/COK/CCJ to ME , not BOM and DEL. This is also the reason why the BOM/DEL route got the chop first when there has been a crew shortage.
In addition to the fuel there is also the tax on the same. Kerala has now virtually removed the taxes on International flights which earlier AI had to pay, so that is a substantial saving. Plus the ground crew (commerical etc) and even cabin crew are not paid AI union wages, instead substantially less.So there is a saving there as well.
Kerala Gulf fares are heavily discounted and this is a volume market. Unlike popular perception, there are takers for the higher end of the AIX fares as well which will still be about a coiuple of thousand Rs lower than the other players (a considerable amount to most passengers). So things should not be as bad as is made out.
Can some one explain about the payload penalty part.
Cheerio
Topic deals with AIX.
Upgrading of senior F/Os to Captains instead of taking expats for Captains is an issue with AI not AIX. I doubt any senior AI F/Os will want to shift from a 747 or 310 fleet to a NG and that too leaving their BOM or DEL base to come to COK?
AIXs biggest market right now is TRV/COK/CCJ to ME , not BOM and DEL. This is also the reason why the BOM/DEL route got the chop first when there has been a crew shortage.
In addition to the fuel there is also the tax on the same. Kerala has now virtually removed the taxes on International flights which earlier AI had to pay, so that is a substantial saving. Plus the ground crew (commerical etc) and even cabin crew are not paid AI union wages, instead substantially less.So there is a saving there as well.
Kerala Gulf fares are heavily discounted and this is a volume market. Unlike popular perception, there are takers for the higher end of the AIX fares as well which will still be about a coiuple of thousand Rs lower than the other players (a considerable amount to most passengers). So things should not be as bad as is made out.
Can some one explain about the payload penalty part.
Cheerio