Ipa or Balpa
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Ipa or Balpa
Having been in both Balpa and now settled in the IPA why are so many attracted to Balpa at 1% of Salary vs a fixed fee at the IPA?
The level of support at the IPA and its affiliate the IPF is of a very high standard, they offer all the support any pilot both employed or unemployed could want. The benefits offered are of a very high standard and the legal cover is at the members initiation and not decided by a Balpa committee.
Agreed Balpa is bigger but does that necessarily make it better?
In my time as a member of the IPA the level of help I was given in finding a job was fantastic by comparison to Balpa, they are very active and make calls to members when a job opportunity comes their way.
The level of support at the IPA and its affiliate the IPF is of a very high standard, they offer all the support any pilot both employed or unemployed could want. The benefits offered are of a very high standard and the legal cover is at the members initiation and not decided by a Balpa committee.
Agreed Balpa is bigger but does that necessarily make it better?
In my time as a member of the IPA the level of help I was given in finding a job was fantastic by comparison to Balpa, they are very active and make calls to members when a job opportunity comes their way.
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IPA wins hands down! BALPA are next to useless and very expensive with it. Give yourself a payrise that BALPA couldn't secure for you by leaving them! It's beyond me why people stay. You can get a lot more interesting magazines and a damn sight more of them for what you pay BALPA each month. They may have been a useful force in days gone by but nowdays seem to have no real interest in their members welfare or any real power to do anything about it. And yes, before the short sighted BALPA lot bleat on about strength in numbers, if that were the case then people wouldn't leave and thus leave you weaker. It's a vicious circle I know, but brought on by your obvious indifference to your members.
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Terms & Endearment rather than Rumours & News?
Why do you think this is an appropriate forum to air your opinions and attack an organisation that many think does a fine job? If you don't like it, keep out.
Why do you think this is an appropriate forum to air your opinions and attack an organisation that many think does a fine job? If you don't like it, keep out.
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BALPA can't even manage their own website. Many company forums have gone and the threads closed with no notice to the members.
Those are the members that pay the wages of the staff at BALPA. The very staff that couldn't be bothered to tell the mambers what was happening. That would not happen at the IPA.
So more money and less service....?
As for a fine job... I know several that would dispute that.
Those are the members that pay the wages of the staff at BALPA. The very staff that couldn't be bothered to tell the mambers what was happening. That would not happen at the IPA.
So more money and less service....?
As for a fine job... I know several that would dispute that.
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
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The implementation of the new IT system is probably being far less than satisfactory. However the strength of BALPA has been its achievements over the years. If that is all you have to slate the organisation with, then there is not a lot wrong. Join or don't join- but badmouthing with general accusations and no chance of reply to specific complaints is not fair on any organisation.
What is there 'Rumours & News' in this?
What is there 'Rumours & News' in this?
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Rainboe,
I accept that BALPA have obviously worked for you, however ask a number of people that they have been totally indifferent to. Following 911 I like a number of colleagues found myself in a very difficult situation, my employer was taking the proverbial out of a number of its crews. We were a BALPA airline, recognised by the company, yet they were ineffectual as a group and on an individual basis they regularly ignored any requests for contact.
I had a particular problem in that I had an agreement in writing, yet when I decided to exercise that agreement the company refused. I contacted BALPA for help & advice & received a phone call in response 5 weeks later, by that time it was too late.
I am not alone in this situation as a number of friends & colleagues received the same lack of interest & response.
I gave myself a pay rise, joined the IPA/IPF for information reagrding aviation but then spent another £11.00 per month on the T&G, now there's strentgh in numbers.. 2 million members & rising & guaranteed representation, can BALPA give that guarantee?
I accept that BALPA have obviously worked for you, however ask a number of people that they have been totally indifferent to. Following 911 I like a number of colleagues found myself in a very difficult situation, my employer was taking the proverbial out of a number of its crews. We were a BALPA airline, recognised by the company, yet they were ineffectual as a group and on an individual basis they regularly ignored any requests for contact.
I had a particular problem in that I had an agreement in writing, yet when I decided to exercise that agreement the company refused. I contacted BALPA for help & advice & received a phone call in response 5 weeks later, by that time it was too late.
I am not alone in this situation as a number of friends & colleagues received the same lack of interest & response.
I gave myself a pay rise, joined the IPA/IPF for information reagrding aviation but then spent another £11.00 per month on the T&G, now there's strentgh in numbers.. 2 million members & rising & guaranteed representation, can BALPA give that guarantee?
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IPA
I have to disagree with Flaps one. I'm in a Big Airline and am fed up with BALPA. I've called on BALPA and they have been found wanting. So I had to decide what value I wanted for my money. I need representation (a prisoners friend) if I ever get in the s##t with the management and legal expenses cover if I really c##k up. I have that with the IPF.
To date I have found that if I do my honest best, then the management is reasonable with me. I pay for extra legal insurance cover £250,000. The whole package through the IPF costs me about £23 pm instead of £65pm.
At LGW we are used to getting sweet FA out of BALPA. I get what BALPA negotiate whether I'm a member or not. I'm quite sure the IPF would do an equally good job in BALPA's place so i have no guilt. BALPA try to do good things for aviation but they have forgotton the individuals who pay their fees. So I don't belong anymore.
I think a bit of low cost competition might make people sit up and look around at the alternatives. Now where have I seen that happen before?
To date I have found that if I do my honest best, then the management is reasonable with me. I pay for extra legal insurance cover £250,000. The whole package through the IPF costs me about £23 pm instead of £65pm.
At LGW we are used to getting sweet FA out of BALPA. I get what BALPA negotiate whether I'm a member or not. I'm quite sure the IPF would do an equally good job in BALPA's place so i have no guilt. BALPA try to do good things for aviation but they have forgotton the individuals who pay their fees. So I don't belong anymore.
I think a bit of low cost competition might make people sit up and look around at the alternatives. Now where have I seen that happen before?
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For what it's worth I've been a member of BALPA for a couple of decades and in that time I've been made redundant twice. On both occasions BALPA were heavily involved and on both occasions I would rate their contribution as utterly useless. By this I mean I would have been in, at worst, exactly the same situation if BALPA hadn't been involved. On both occasions there was lots of talk, lots of noise but absolutely no democratic consultation with the members. The BALPA CC rather arrogantly decided what was best for the members and no discussion was allowed. I'm at a complete loss as to why I have never left this useless body and continue to waste my money with them. Laziness I suspect. Perhaps this thread will give me the motivation. What's the web address for the IPA?
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Have just left BALPA and joined the IPA! I was a big supporter of BALPA and was even on our company CC. However, over a troubled two years they have performed very badly in my own company over redunduncies, pay reviews etc....
They have their good points but at the end of the day they have not proved value for money! I used to argue that BALPA was only as good as the company CC! I was wrong! Though our CC has not covered itself in glory either!
But before we get carried away slagging them off they have been a huge influance over the years for the good. I guess it comes down to you pay your money and make your own choice.
Worth remembering the legal insurance with the IPA is at your discretion, BALPA decide if they want to fight your case or not!
They have their good points but at the end of the day they have not proved value for money! I used to argue that BALPA was only as good as the company CC! I was wrong! Though our CC has not covered itself in glory either!
But before we get carried away slagging them off they have been a huge influance over the years for the good. I guess it comes down to you pay your money and make your own choice.
Worth remembering the legal insurance with the IPA is at your discretion, BALPA decide if they want to fight your case or not!
Controversial, moi?
I am a member of BALPA and they are far from perfect. I have just looked at the IPA site and to quote:
If anybody believes that is sufficient (the £250,000 that is) for anything except that which is not major is living in cloud cuckoo land.
We also offer legal assistance of £10,000 to our Full members as well as a free legal help line. There is also a facility to top up the Legal cover to £250,000.
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The problem with Balpa is that it is still essentialy the British Airways Line Pilots' association. (Tin helmets on as the usual suspects choke on their cheese boards and reach for their jewel encrusted keyboards)
It was hijacked by an elite and priviledged minority of top earners who were infuriated at the liberalisation of its appeal to a broader base. Result, the reforming chairman was kicked out and we now have high profile campaigns at vast expense about lifting the pension cap to nearly two million pounds and absolutely not a breath about the very many poor cousins who will be lucky to stay out of poverty in retirement.
Legal representation to my certain knowledge has been absolutely abysmal and the resources of the most talented principal negotiators are stretched to the limit.
yes, there has been change and the "log" looks impressive but the issues which interest the plutocratic elite who hold sway are of little relevance to hack regional and low cost pilots.
What is stopping the floodgates opening and abandonment so richly deserved en mass is the fact that the IPA cannot offer the hands on Industrial support on a day to day basis that Balpa supposedly provides.
It is chicken and egg situation but if enough join then it would have the resources to blow Balpa out of the water as there would not be a single reason for staying with it.
(Ear plugs in for the squeals of protest)
It was hijacked by an elite and priviledged minority of top earners who were infuriated at the liberalisation of its appeal to a broader base. Result, the reforming chairman was kicked out and we now have high profile campaigns at vast expense about lifting the pension cap to nearly two million pounds and absolutely not a breath about the very many poor cousins who will be lucky to stay out of poverty in retirement.
Legal representation to my certain knowledge has been absolutely abysmal and the resources of the most talented principal negotiators are stretched to the limit.
yes, there has been change and the "log" looks impressive but the issues which interest the plutocratic elite who hold sway are of little relevance to hack regional and low cost pilots.
What is stopping the floodgates opening and abandonment so richly deserved en mass is the fact that the IPA cannot offer the hands on Industrial support on a day to day basis that Balpa supposedly provides.
It is chicken and egg situation but if enough join then it would have the resources to blow Balpa out of the water as there would not be a single reason for staying with it.
(Ear plugs in for the squeals of protest)
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T & G.
Why bother with an airline related union.ie BALPA, IPF. I'm led to believe that the T & G use the same lawyers for airline related matters as BALPA do. So why waste all your hard earned money on those BA boys.
Why bother with an airline related union.ie BALPA, IPF. I'm led to believe that the T & G use the same lawyers for airline related matters as BALPA do. So why waste all your hard earned money on those BA boys.
Controversial, moi?
The problem with Balpa is that it is still essentialy the British Airways Line Pilots' association. (Tin helmets on as the usual suspects choke on their cheese boards and reach for their jewel encrusted keyboards)
It was hijacked by an elite and priviledged(sic) minority of top earners who were infuriated at the liberalisation of its appeal to a broader base. Result, the reforming chairman was kicked out and we now have high profile campaigns at vast expense about lifting the pension cap to nearly two million pounds and absolutely not a breath about the very many poor cousins who will be lucky to stay out of poverty in retirement.
Legal representation to my certain knowledge has been absolutely abysmal and the resources of the most talented principal negotiators are stretched to the limit..
yes, there has been change and the "log" looks impressive but the issues which interest the plutocratic elite who hold sway are of little relevance to hack regional and low cost pilots.
What is stopping the floodgates opening and abandonment so richly deserved en mass is the fact that the IPA cannot offer the hands on Industrial support on a day to day basis that Balpa supposedly provides.
It is chicken and egg situation but if enough join then it would have the resources to blow Balpa out of the water as there would not be a single reason for staying with it.
(Ear plugs in for the squeals of protest).
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A bit too much ported stilton I think Mr Mouse
I am sure that you sincerely hold the views that you do. That does not mean that my own view is puerile or any less valid than your own. Indeed having served on our company council for several years I am very well placed to comment on exactly what goes on at New Road.............and much of it would leave many members very substantialy less than happy if they saw what their subscriptions were spent on.
I know as a matter of fact that my views are shared by many and that given the slightest half decent opportunity most would quit tomorrow for an organisation which was less elitist and more relevant to their own needs.
The new order are far too concerned about high profile political issues and promoting their own status within Whitehall. What is lacking is good basic industrial support for a broad church membership.
I am sure that you sincerely hold the views that you do. That does not mean that my own view is puerile or any less valid than your own. Indeed having served on our company council for several years I am very well placed to comment on exactly what goes on at New Road.............and much of it would leave many members very substantialy less than happy if they saw what their subscriptions were spent on.
I know as a matter of fact that my views are shared by many and that given the slightest half decent opportunity most would quit tomorrow for an organisation which was less elitist and more relevant to their own needs.
The new order are far too concerned about high profile political issues and promoting their own status within Whitehall. What is lacking is good basic industrial support for a broad church membership.
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M Mouse
I have some sympathy for your point of view but sadly BALPA are not the force they were. I can only speak from my own experience. BALPA have performed very badly in my own airline on a number of issues. They have supplied poor support to our CC and failed on several occasions to provide good legal support to members who needed it!
I have some sympathy for your point of view but sadly BALPA are not the force they were. I can only speak from my own experience. BALPA have performed very badly in my own airline on a number of issues. They have supplied poor support to our CC and failed on several occasions to provide good legal support to members who needed it!
Controversial, moi?
Indeed having served on our company council for several years I am very well placed to comment on exactly what goes on at New Road.............and much of it would leave many members very substantialy less than happy if they saw what their subscriptions were spent on.
kinsman
And how did BALPA perform badly, we would all like to know because if BALPA are so awful I will leave? But then again nobody has ever come up with facts that bear scrutiny about any alleged failings.
The legal cases which have not gained BALPA support/funding, certainly in recent times, are those with little hope of being won. Sounds a good system to me.
I mentioned before that Jessica Starmer is a good case where BALPA has given support. Wide implications for all pilots despite many of us (me included) being fundamentally opposed to her. If BALPA had not supported her then I would question the method by which legal funding is decided.
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M Mouse
I have no intention of posting my airlines dirty laundry in public! You make your own choice on BALPA I have made mine.
Not a lot of use having legal cover if you can't get it when you need it! The cases I have seen may not have been won but a better resolution may have be obtained for the pilots concerned had BALPA backed the guys up! Now perhaps that sits well with you but it does not with me!
It is a question of choice!
I have no intention of posting my airlines dirty laundry in public! You make your own choice on BALPA I have made mine.
Not a lot of use having legal cover if you can't get it when you need it! The cases I have seen may not have been won but a better resolution may have be obtained for the pilots concerned had BALPA backed the guys up! Now perhaps that sits well with you but it does not with me!
It is a question of choice!