Flybe Employee's Roll Over
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Flybe Employee's Roll Over
Well you got the result you wanted now live with it and DON'T COMPLAIN.
The 5% pay rise has been accepted thanks to the Dash 8 fleet.
You lot are so short sighted it's untrue. I suppose that figures seeing as you have no ambition further than a turbo prop. I suppose your going to sign up for a 6 month notice period, give up your holidays and work 900 hours on a 5 on 5 off shift pattern for 70% of your wages. The word Dash 8 idiot comes to mind.
You lot are feeble excuse's for Pilot's and are destroying what was a good company. We are now back at 2001 levels and you voted for it.
I suggest the Jet fleet break away from the union and be represented independently. Enjoy your sarnies prop pilots.
The 5% pay rise has been accepted thanks to the Dash 8 fleet.
You lot are so short sighted it's untrue. I suppose that figures seeing as you have no ambition further than a turbo prop. I suppose your going to sign up for a 6 month notice period, give up your holidays and work 900 hours on a 5 on 5 off shift pattern for 70% of your wages. The word Dash 8 idiot comes to mind.
You lot are feeble excuse's for Pilot's and are destroying what was a good company. We are now back at 2001 levels and you voted for it.
I suggest the Jet fleet break away from the union and be represented independently. Enjoy your sarnies prop pilots.
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Flying Fiona :
Not everyone has the chance to fly a 146 "whisperjet"...... So remenber you are supposed to work together not against each other.
.
You are working for the same company... Blame the management but not the prop pilots...
Fly high!
Not everyone has the chance to fly a 146 "whisperjet"...... So remenber you are supposed to work together not against each other.
. You are working for the same company... Blame the management but not the prop pilots...
Fly high!
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I have to agree with FF. In a rather short-sighted manner, some considered they were missing out having rejected April's original pay offer, and with a typical pilot 'look after numero uno' fashion, rolled over and accepted it. In defence of the DHC8 fleet, most of the guys are new and still have a rose-tinted outlook.
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So FF you have access to Balpa voting system now do you??, how can you say the Dash guys voted in the pay deal ?, could it be they were the only ones in Balpa that could be bothered to reply?.
I doubt that they are short sighted but have to grasp everything they can to try and make their lives more "liveable".
Shame you cant be supportive rather than playing into management hands and dividing the pilot force !!!!!!, flying the 146 does not make you any more a superior pilot than Dash guys it just means that because of the traditional jet/prop deal you get a little more take home. The Dash seams to be a good tool for what it is doing for Flybe and a good tool for preparing all the Dash guys that are finding the switch to a real jet, with other companies, a easy one.
Rant over
I doubt that they are short sighted but have to grasp everything they can to try and make their lives more "liveable".
Shame you cant be supportive rather than playing into management hands and dividing the pilot force !!!!!!, flying the 146 does not make you any more a superior pilot than Dash guys it just means that because of the traditional jet/prop deal you get a little more take home. The Dash seams to be a good tool for what it is doing for Flybe and a good tool for preparing all the Dash guys that are finding the switch to a real jet, with other companies, a easy one.
Rant over
Last edited by ltn and beyond; 2nd Jul 2005 at 08:02.
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What an absolutely pathetic post.
FF - after your post about pulling 4-5 sickies a month so that you can have a social life, I hardly think you are in any position to slag off people in the company. After all, with your actions, you are probably the biggest culprit of shafting your fellow colleagues in order to get what you want!
How do you know it was the Dash guys that voted yes??? Stop trying to turn this into a 'jet against dash' argument.
It's pretty obvious that the company are trying to screw the employees. Yes, it's a shame that some will roll over and let the company walk all over them, but unless you have specific figures as to who voted what, shut up.
Quite strange that of everyone I and fellow colleagues have spoken to, they all voted NO. How do you know, with such a small margin, that it wasn't 'fixed'?!?!?!
Stop being pathetic.
Enjoy your non-reducing bond when the 195 comes along.
FF - after your post about pulling 4-5 sickies a month so that you can have a social life, I hardly think you are in any position to slag off people in the company. After all, with your actions, you are probably the biggest culprit of shafting your fellow colleagues in order to get what you want!
How do you know it was the Dash guys that voted yes??? Stop trying to turn this into a 'jet against dash' argument.
It's pretty obvious that the company are trying to screw the employees. Yes, it's a shame that some will roll over and let the company walk all over them, but unless you have specific figures as to who voted what, shut up.
Quite strange that of everyone I and fellow colleagues have spoken to, they all voted NO. How do you know, with such a small margin, that it wasn't 'fixed'?!?!?!
Stop being pathetic.
Enjoy your non-reducing bond when the 195 comes along.
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The dash guys are responsible for the vote on the pay rise,wind your neck in you silly idiot!
I expect the people who voted NO,if that is anyone,where the ones that are leaving and just want thier money in their pay packet before they leave.
Dont divide unite................
I expect the people who voted NO,if that is anyone,where the ones that are leaving and just want thier money in their pay packet before they leave.
Dont divide unite................
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If things are that good why you leaving? I'll tell you why, cuz the Dash fleet has screwed you over a barrell? They know they are the highest paid butty scoffing prop pilots in the country and 5% to them plus a bucket full of shares is Christmas all over again. As for Jet versus Dash, yes their is a division, all because every prop pilot is fed up of the jet pilots spitting on them from a great hight and leaving them in their wake. And don't say it's not true cuz it is. Ask any Pilot and they want to fly a jet. Simple. The problem has now has manifested itself and the jet guys are fed up and the resignations are begining to come in. Great news for the Dash 8 guys but the problem just continues into the next generation.
And yes I have been sick today because I will not work when I'm tired because I am responsible unlike most of you. Oh I forgot your on a rock in the middle of the sea and don't do bugger all to contribute to the companies excessive profits.
And yes I have been sick today because I will not work when I'm tired because I am responsible unlike most of you. Oh I forgot your on a rock in the middle of the sea and don't do bugger all to contribute to the companies excessive profits.
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Ah. What a sensible reply! And do you really think 'naming and shaming' me actually makes me give a to**?!?!?!? Everyone knows who I am, and I'm not bothered, because unlike you, I'm quite happy to stand up and voice my opinions rather than hiding behind a fake name.
First of all, I'm leaving because I didn't want to go on the pig. I was actually next on the jet down here, and had I not resigned, I'd have been on it by now. I'm not leaving because the DASH fleet has screwed me, I'm leaving because I don't think I can get as far with my career as I want to in FlyBE, and I'd rather go somewhere where there are (hopefully) less roster changes, unscheduled night-stops, nights away from base, and yes, better money.
Butty scoffing??? Actually, we don't get bacon rolls. It's the jet fleet that is treated to cooked breakfasts. We get cold food that gives us food poisoning.
If you really want to get into a jet v Dash argument go ahead. I can't be bothered to waste my time.
As for calling in sick because you're tired - fair enough. If you are FATIGUED you shouldn't work. But judging from your attitude that has shown through in recent posts, you're probably not really fatigued but just feel like having a day off and screwing your colleagues.
As for being on an island and therefore not contributing to the companies excessive profits - well, I'm afraid to say that the routes from both here and Guernsey to LGW are two of the most profitable routes in the company. Our loads are continually high, and we all work long days like the rest of you.
Please don't lower yourself even further by trying to slag off the islands as well as the Dash fleet - for all of your colleagues who continue to work with you and read your posts, you are just lowering yourself and probably losing respect.
Oh, and as for jet pilots spitting on the Dash lot - must just be you that has such a disgusting habit - I've actually never had a problem with anyone in this company (bar one who was actually on the Dash).
First of all, I'm leaving because I didn't want to go on the pig. I was actually next on the jet down here, and had I not resigned, I'd have been on it by now. I'm not leaving because the DASH fleet has screwed me, I'm leaving because I don't think I can get as far with my career as I want to in FlyBE, and I'd rather go somewhere where there are (hopefully) less roster changes, unscheduled night-stops, nights away from base, and yes, better money.
Butty scoffing??? Actually, we don't get bacon rolls. It's the jet fleet that is treated to cooked breakfasts. We get cold food that gives us food poisoning.
If you really want to get into a jet v Dash argument go ahead. I can't be bothered to waste my time.
As for calling in sick because you're tired - fair enough. If you are FATIGUED you shouldn't work. But judging from your attitude that has shown through in recent posts, you're probably not really fatigued but just feel like having a day off and screwing your colleagues.
As for being on an island and therefore not contributing to the companies excessive profits - well, I'm afraid to say that the routes from both here and Guernsey to LGW are two of the most profitable routes in the company. Our loads are continually high, and we all work long days like the rest of you.
Please don't lower yourself even further by trying to slag off the islands as well as the Dash fleet - for all of your colleagues who continue to work with you and read your posts, you are just lowering yourself and probably losing respect.
Oh, and as for jet pilots spitting on the Dash lot - must just be you that has such a disgusting habit - I've actually never had a problem with anyone in this company (bar one who was actually on the Dash).
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FF can you disclose how you are so sure the Dash drivers voted in the pay deal as you quoted, or should we all assume you are just using this forum to divide the company, and disregard any meaningless propergander you may create.
Balpa works hard to promote anonomus voting, or do you know different ???
Balpa works hard to promote anonomus voting, or do you know different ???
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Sorry to butt in on this passionate little thread, but Skywaytoheaven (shades of Lord Flashart me thinks 
), is 'hairdryer hog' a pseudonym for the mighty whisperjet jobby?
PS as an ex 300 driver always looked at the Q400s rather enviously - heard they were quite nippy
), is 'hairdryer hog' a pseudonym for the mighty whisperjet jobby?PS as an ex 300 driver always looked at the Q400s rather enviously - heard they were quite nippy
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ER82- Well said.
I think that personaly attacking fellow employees on an open forum is about as low as you can get, I might of had differences of opinion with er82 but at least she/he has the balls to stand up and be counted and not make spineless faceless and hurtfull remarks such as in this thread.
Where's the love in pprune gone?????????
I think that personaly attacking fellow employees on an open forum is about as low as you can get, I might of had differences of opinion with er82 but at least she/he has the balls to stand up and be counted and not make spineless faceless and hurtfull remarks such as in this thread.
Where's the love in pprune gone?????????
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Flying Fiona - Why dont you do everyone in the company a favour and all your collegues a favour and go get a job in your local Tesco's which may suit your lifestyle more than working for a airline.
It's because certain people like you are so irressponsible that your collegues are having to work so hard and and are having work on days off and worrk long hour's.
Dont forget Fiona - that managment read these forum's and it wont take much for them to see who called in sick for your duty and track you down.
A lot of people on here have spent fast amount's of there own money ( I know because i'm one of them ) and not to have it paid for by daddy or by her majesty to get to where they are and don't give a damn if they are flying prop's or jet's for there first job - they are just happy to be doing what they enjoy most - TO FLY !!!
If you no longer enjoy flying then it's about time you found yourself a new career - one that more suit's your lifestyle and is less demanding on you.
It's because certain people like you are so irressponsible that your collegues are having to work so hard and and are having work on days off and worrk long hour's.
Dont forget Fiona - that managment read these forum's and it wont take much for them to see who called in sick for your duty and track you down.
A lot of people on here have spent fast amount's of there own money ( I know because i'm one of them ) and not to have it paid for by daddy or by her majesty to get to where they are and don't give a damn if they are flying prop's or jet's for there first job - they are just happy to be doing what they enjoy most - TO FLY !!!
If you no longer enjoy flying then it's about time you found yourself a new career - one that more suit's your lifestyle and is less demanding on you.
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FLYBE PAY ! confused.
HIGHEST PAID TP DRIVERS IN THE COUNTRY, WHERE DID THIS COME FROM I EARN 38-40k A YEAR FYING IN THE RHS OF A TP, OH AND I ONLY WORK TWO WEEKS A MONTH AND FOR THE OTHER TWO, WELL THE FAIRWAYS AND GREENS ARE BEAUTIFUL THIS TIME OF YEAR !! THERES MORE TO LIFE THAN FLYING !!
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Whispering Giant
You will find, when the novelty of being a pilot in your first real job starts to wear off, what most experienced pilots know - that it isn't about the flying, it's about lifestyle.
If you are one of those pilots who is perfectly happy to forsake wife, kids, friends and family in order to fly, you will end up a (maybe) happy, but lonely, old pilot. If, on the other hand, you wake up one day and wonder what hotel you are in, and suddenly realise that you would quite like a life outside of a turboprop flight deck, you too will start to think like Flying Fiona.
I don't have a lot of time for pulling "sickies", but I do know from first-hand experience how Crewing can impose a work pattern that is almost criminally tiring. Noisy hotels, disturbed sleep patterns, endless positioning, all take their toll, but nobody could give a toss about that. "It's LEGAL! Are you refusing a duty"? I have been threatened, both by them and management, in order to get me to fly when I was really way too tired. None of them seem to understand that the preface to CAP370 states that it is expected that no pilot will ever be required to work to the limits defined in that document, but airlines regularly take the p*ss when it comes to the rules. How many of you have been told "it's legal, get on with it"?
I love flying, but I hate what the job does to my family and my health. I hate needing a day of my days off just to recover from the last few days flying - never mind actually getting some quality time with the family.
It appears that the company has accomplished a classic "divide and rule" in this case. I completely agree that this is a result of the turboprop pilots caving - there is no other sensible explanation. The jet guys have nothing to gain, and something to lose. Think about it.
You will find, when the novelty of being a pilot in your first real job starts to wear off, what most experienced pilots know - that it isn't about the flying, it's about lifestyle.
If you are one of those pilots who is perfectly happy to forsake wife, kids, friends and family in order to fly, you will end up a (maybe) happy, but lonely, old pilot. If, on the other hand, you wake up one day and wonder what hotel you are in, and suddenly realise that you would quite like a life outside of a turboprop flight deck, you too will start to think like Flying Fiona.
I don't have a lot of time for pulling "sickies", but I do know from first-hand experience how Crewing can impose a work pattern that is almost criminally tiring. Noisy hotels, disturbed sleep patterns, endless positioning, all take their toll, but nobody could give a toss about that. "It's LEGAL! Are you refusing a duty"? I have been threatened, both by them and management, in order to get me to fly when I was really way too tired. None of them seem to understand that the preface to CAP370 states that it is expected that no pilot will ever be required to work to the limits defined in that document, but airlines regularly take the p*ss when it comes to the rules. How many of you have been told "it's legal, get on with it"?
I love flying, but I hate what the job does to my family and my health. I hate needing a day of my days off just to recover from the last few days flying - never mind actually getting some quality time with the family.
It appears that the company has accomplished a classic "divide and rule" in this case. I completely agree that this is a result of the turboprop pilots caving - there is no other sensible explanation. The jet guys have nothing to gain, and something to lose. Think about it.
Last edited by MOR; 4th Jul 2005 at 16:45.
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FF, one would suggest that it is you that has no ambition. Making other collegues feel inadequate is the work of a common bully!
Why are you so critical of people that fly the Dash 8? I am not sure if you are aware, but it happens to be the majority fleet in the company, so therefore it is difficult for people to get onto it. Also a lot of current dash drivers have turned down the luxury of a 'Hot Meal' and a 10k payrise because they do not want to fly 'old technology'. You may be able to put jet hours on your CV, you can't put full EFIS experience!
Why are you so critical of people that fly the Dash 8? I am not sure if you are aware, but it happens to be the majority fleet in the company, so therefore it is difficult for people to get onto it. Also a lot of current dash drivers have turned down the luxury of a 'Hot Meal' and a 10k payrise because they do not want to fly 'old technology'. You may be able to put jet hours on your CV, you can't put full EFIS experience!
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This is just petty. FF get over it. You've got the reaction you were aiming for. Would you care to try a more persuasive way of putting your argument across? Just be assured that it's not only the jet jocks who are annoyed at the pay deal being accepted. Not all of us on the other fleet (you know, the majority!) voted yes!
I think that the negotiations should have contained something about a regular work pattern so that you can plan more than 4 weeks in advance as opposed to the lottery we have now. Maybe they did. I don't know.
That's my 2 penneth worth.
Not all of us on the other fleet (you know, the majority!) voted yes! I think that the negotiations should have contained something about a regular work pattern so that you can plan more than 4 weeks in advance as opposed to the lottery we have now. Maybe they did. I don't know.
That's my 2 penneth worth.
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Just joined the company on the Dash and actually do not understand any of the posts on this board. Why is a payrise a bad thing? Why is there so much apparent bad feeling between the jet and prop pilots?
I for one never wanted to go straight to a jet, but would not turn one of the new 195's if offered as it is full EFIS.
Anyone shed any light ?
I for one never wanted to go straight to a jet, but would not turn one of the new 195's if offered as it is full EFIS.
Anyone shed any light ?
No payrise for 4 (?) yrs. Worst duty pay in the business. Zero roster stability. Scheduling agreement more holes than Swiss cheese. Back door deals disregarding seniority list etc etc.
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Prickie
A pay rise isn't a bad thing - but in the current state of the company, the pilots should really have had the company bending over backwards and coming up with a deal that benefits US not them.
Flying Fiona seems to have some insider knowledge and claims that it was only Dash crew that voted yes. As the margin was so small, it could be debated whether it was 'fixed' - every crew member that I and others have spoken to voted NO!
The apparent bad feeling between jet and prop - maybe I've just been lucky in my base, but I've never really seen any of this bad feeling. Unfortunately there are some, FF, who like to stir things up and create arguments.
VTOL has hit the nail on the head. It shouldn't have just been about getting a pay-rise. Most people have left because of the ridiculous roster disruptions and inability to plan any sort of life - not even three days in advance let alone 3 weeks.
With lack of crews (where have I seen that before?!?!) the pilot workforce were in the position to be able to ask for pretty much anything. A fair whack for roster changes and unscheduled night-stops would help ease the pain, and with any luck stop crewing/ops changing people so much. Instead, the company want to take 8 days leave off us and give us nothing back, and crews go "Oh thanks"!!!
(Not having a go at crewing/ops - they probably have the toughest job being stuck in the middle of us whiners and the even whinier management!)
A pay rise isn't a bad thing - but in the current state of the company, the pilots should really have had the company bending over backwards and coming up with a deal that benefits US not them.
Flying Fiona seems to have some insider knowledge and claims that it was only Dash crew that voted yes. As the margin was so small, it could be debated whether it was 'fixed' - every crew member that I and others have spoken to voted NO!
The apparent bad feeling between jet and prop - maybe I've just been lucky in my base, but I've never really seen any of this bad feeling. Unfortunately there are some, FF, who like to stir things up and create arguments.
VTOL has hit the nail on the head. It shouldn't have just been about getting a pay-rise. Most people have left because of the ridiculous roster disruptions and inability to plan any sort of life - not even three days in advance let alone 3 weeks.
With lack of crews (where have I seen that before?!?!) the pilot workforce were in the position to be able to ask for pretty much anything. A fair whack for roster changes and unscheduled night-stops would help ease the pain, and with any luck stop crewing/ops changing people so much. Instead, the company want to take 8 days leave off us and give us nothing back, and crews go "Oh thanks"!!!
(Not having a go at crewing/ops - they probably have the toughest job being stuck in the middle of us whiners and the even whinier management!)
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Well from memory, flight crew work 266 days per year, the balance being 81 days off and 18 days in lieu of statutory holidays.
If you guys have actually given up 8 days off, you have surrendered 10% of your days off for a 5% pay rise.
Looking at it another way, by getting those extra 8 days work out of you, the company has leveraged a 3% increase in productivity out of you, in return for that 5% pay rise.
Of course I may be missing something, being out of the picture now... but you guys appear to have been thoroughly worked over!
Somebody enlighten me!
If you guys have actually given up 8 days off, you have surrendered 10% of your days off for a 5% pay rise.
Looking at it another way, by getting those extra 8 days work out of you, the company has leveraged a 3% increase in productivity out of you, in return for that 5% pay rise.
Of course I may be missing something, being out of the picture now... but you guys appear to have been thoroughly worked over!
Somebody enlighten me!