Pilot shortage hits BA.
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Just been told that command time on the 777 fleet may come down to as little as 5 years with the expansion. (Subject to T5 being up and running by 2008). By then I should be earning more than an easyjet captain anyway.
Not such a compelling reason to turn it down?
Not such a compelling reason to turn it down?
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New_Nigel777 Who told you that? I would be amazed if it drops below 15 yrs for the next 15 yrs minimum. Especially as BA have said that they wont buy any new aircraft until all their debt is paid off. (so they can finance new aircraft at non junk bond rates)
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I can understand that if you are part of the established order and you have once seen better times, it is logical to complain about things that once were. So far so good.
But to say that BA is not a viable option for DEP is just not true. I work in a small turboprop outfit and I know that just about everyone has applied with BA. I was lucky enough to be invited to the interview, so I am sort of knocking on the front door (awaiting the results btw).
From what I have heard during the assessment, and I have to say that they tell it really as it is, it does not sound that bad. Ok the long time to captaincy is a serious down point. But for the rest.
Pay: I make about 1800 pounds net as a captain so that shouldn´t be a big problem.
Scheduling: I work the JAA max WRR and then have to remind ops about three times a month to reschedule because the intended plan will put me over it.
Pension: Our pension scheme pays out at 65 while we only work till 60.
Company has no idea what I should do in the mean time.
Travel arrangements: We don´t have it
Sector pay: We don´t have it
Duty allowance: It´s a lot less then you would spend.
Again this is just a turboprop outfit and conditions are absolutely not comparable to a BA but I am just trying to point out that for a lot of guys BA is a very very good option. Sorry if I offended anybody with this post.
Cheers.
But to say that BA is not a viable option for DEP is just not true. I work in a small turboprop outfit and I know that just about everyone has applied with BA. I was lucky enough to be invited to the interview, so I am sort of knocking on the front door (awaiting the results btw).
From what I have heard during the assessment, and I have to say that they tell it really as it is, it does not sound that bad. Ok the long time to captaincy is a serious down point. But for the rest.
Pay: I make about 1800 pounds net as a captain so that shouldn´t be a big problem.
Scheduling: I work the JAA max WRR and then have to remind ops about three times a month to reschedule because the intended plan will put me over it.
Pension: Our pension scheme pays out at 65 while we only work till 60.
Company has no idea what I should do in the mean time.Travel arrangements: We don´t have it
Sector pay: We don´t have it
Duty allowance: It´s a lot less then you would spend.
Again this is just a turboprop outfit and conditions are absolutely not comparable to a BA but I am just trying to point out that for a lot of guys BA is a very very good option. Sorry if I offended anybody with this post.
Cheers.
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Fortuna76..... You're not offending anybody with your post. In fact, I think it speaks volumes. BA is no longer attractive to anybody with a half decent job in aviation, but only to the less fortunate members of the pilot community. You probably will find it a breath of fresh air coming from where you do. The money will certainly be a lot better. BUt you will be away from home an awful lot,and you will, I'm certain get very frustrated at the nif-naf in BA.
NewNigel777....Yep....came from the horses mouth at an OOF day.
NewNigel777....Yep....came from the horses mouth at an OOF day.
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New_Nigel
About 140 retirements a year for the forseeable future, puts a new joiner about seniority 2200 ish in 5 years. For that to equate to a definite command would need total pilot numbers around 4.5K. This would require something like a 50% increase in fleet size.
For it to be a longhaul command, you'd also have to see all shorthaul aircraft replaced in flavour of longhaul, again within 5 years.
So we are talking about 777 replacing ALL shorthaul aircraft, AND a 50% increase in total BA fleet size for a new joiner to see a 777 command in 5 years.
In otherwords its so far out of the realms of feasability your contact must have a serious reality disconnect.
CPB
About 140 retirements a year for the forseeable future, puts a new joiner about seniority 2200 ish in 5 years. For that to equate to a definite command would need total pilot numbers around 4.5K. This would require something like a 50% increase in fleet size.
For it to be a longhaul command, you'd also have to see all shorthaul aircraft replaced in flavour of longhaul, again within 5 years.
So we are talking about 777 replacing ALL shorthaul aircraft, AND a 50% increase in total BA fleet size for a new joiner to see a 777 command in 5 years.
In otherwords its so far out of the realms of feasability your contact must have a serious reality disconnect.
CPB
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Just been told that command time on the 777 fleet may come down to as little as 5 years with the expansion. (Subject to T5 being up and running by 2008). By then I should be earning more than an easyjet captain anyway.
In that you have been
...told that command time on the 777 fleet may come down to as little as 5 years ...
new_nigel
Just after I joined BA during the DEP rush of the late 80s/early 90s my chief pilot told me " you'll get a widebody command in about 7 years" - sound familiar?..... well times and fleets changed and in reality the first time I was eligible for a widebody command was more like 14 years.
As others have pointed out there's going to be no massive Longhaul expansion at LHR - no slots, no space and no money and the possible change in age legislation could stall the whole game of musical chairs for at least five years. No doubt there will be equipment changes ( ? more 777s for 744s) at some point but I reckon Command numbers will stay essentially the same.
OTOH you're in now - enjoy the Right Hand Seat, it ain't all bad and I hope you maintain your sense of optimism - you'll need it.
Rgds
Just after I joined BA during the DEP rush of the late 80s/early 90s my chief pilot told me " you'll get a widebody command in about 7 years" - sound familiar?..... well times and fleets changed and in reality the first time I was eligible for a widebody command was more like 14 years.
As others have pointed out there's going to be no massive Longhaul expansion at LHR - no slots, no space and no money and the possible change in age legislation could stall the whole game of musical chairs for at least five years. No doubt there will be equipment changes ( ? more 777s for 744s) at some point but I reckon Command numbers will stay essentially the same.
OTOH you're in now - enjoy the Right Hand Seat, it ain't all bad and I hope you maintain your sense of optimism - you'll need it.
Rgds
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Just been told that command time on the 777 fleet may come down to as little as 5 years with the expansion.
Someone asked for advice earlier on in the thread. I'll say that again as well:
Take the management briefings with a pinch of salt!!
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Folks,
If BA are struggling to recruit pilots then maybe someone would care to explain why they are no longer advertising for DEP's?
Also, why are there still people in the hold pool awaiting an offer of employment?
I think this thread might be a little exaggerated!
BADEPS
If BA are struggling to recruit pilots then maybe someone would care to explain why they are no longer advertising for DEP's?
Also, why are there still people in the hold pool awaiting an offer of employment?
I think this thread might be a little exaggerated!
BADEPS
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BA DEP's
BA are not gonna be struggling to find pilots anymore! Instead, they plan to integrate a whole load of Aer Lingus Pilots onto the Airbus Fleet, non of whom will have been through the DEP selection! BA Balpa have also signed up to the deal!
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Three of our FOs have recently turned down job offers with BA. One to go elsewhere, two staying with us.
Not long ago it would have been inconceivable to choose a lo-co over the airline which believes it's the world's favourite.
imho ba is now only attractive to early 20s low-time FOs.
Not long ago it would have been inconceivable to choose a lo-co over the airline which believes it's the world's favourite.
imho ba is now only attractive to early 20s low-time FOs.
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madmax100
And your evidence for this bold assertion is.....???
This proposal was in fact rejected by BALPA and was probably an exercise in kite-flying by BA - especially as there are no surplus EI pilots anyway.
And your evidence for this bold assertion is.....???
This proposal was in fact rejected by BALPA and was probably an exercise in kite-flying by BA - especially as there are no surplus EI pilots anyway.
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Especially as BA have said that they wont buy any new aircraft until all their debt is paid off. (so they can finance new aircraft at non junk bond rates)
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Reheat ..... I must have dozed off at that point...it was getting close to lunchtime....
I have no idea at what debt level we can borrow money on more reasonable terms, but we were led to believe we would have to pay an awful lot of it back first; which, of course, is the perfect excuse for the company to plead poverty for the next few years.
I have no idea at what debt level we can borrow money on more reasonable terms, but we were led to believe we would have to pay an awful lot of it back first; which, of course, is the perfect excuse for the company to plead poverty for the next few years.
Last edited by maxy101; 22nd Jun 2005 at 19:08.