737 rated dct entry Ryanair
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Here is a quote from WonderBoy in Terms and Endearment....its pretty accurate !! 
I am a First Officer in Ryanair and here is exactly how I am being payed in the first 12 months:
Type rating (4-6 WEEKS):
No pay
You then wait 2-4 weeks for base training without pay. After base training you are on the training contract basic rate for 6 months. This is an annual rate of 8700 pounds. However, you do not start getting payed this until after line training. Line training takes 2-3 months so you are therefore only payed on this rate for 3-4 months. Sounds complicated? It is purposely so.Not only that, but the company reduces this initial rate by 1000 pounds every year or so without notice. Next year you might therefore expect the rate to be 7700 pounds.
So, from the start of type rating until conclusion of line training you will only have earned about 750 pounds (half sector pay after safety pilot release and no basic salary yet).
About 3.5 months now remain until you finish your training contract. On the annual rate of 8700 (remember this will reduce eventually) you will earn 2530 basic in this time. Also, you will earn 2800 sector pay.
To sum up so far:
Day 1 to completion of line check ( 4 months) = 750 pounds
Line check to end of training contract (3.5 months) = 5330 pounds
Total after 7.5 months with the company = 6080 pounds.
It will now have been 6 months since base check. You will now go on the basic second officer terms. This amounts to a basic annual rate of 14000 pounds and half sector pay for a further 6 months.
In these 6 months you will therefore earn 7000 pounds basic and about 4800 pounds sector pay. This basic rate is also being reduced annually without notice.
Ok, here are the final figures (before tax) for the first 12 months after the base check:
Basic pay: 9530 pounds
Sector pay: 8350 pounds
Total: 17880 Pounds.
You can expect to remain on second officer pay scale for 18 months after line check. This will probably increase to a greater time period as time goes by.
Type rating (4-6 WEEKS):
No pay
You then wait 2-4 weeks for base training without pay. After base training you are on the training contract basic rate for 6 months. This is an annual rate of 8700 pounds. However, you do not start getting payed this until after line training. Line training takes 2-3 months so you are therefore only payed on this rate for 3-4 months. Sounds complicated? It is purposely so.Not only that, but the company reduces this initial rate by 1000 pounds every year or so without notice. Next year you might therefore expect the rate to be 7700 pounds.
So, from the start of type rating until conclusion of line training you will only have earned about 750 pounds (half sector pay after safety pilot release and no basic salary yet).
About 3.5 months now remain until you finish your training contract. On the annual rate of 8700 (remember this will reduce eventually) you will earn 2530 basic in this time. Also, you will earn 2800 sector pay.
To sum up so far:
Day 1 to completion of line check ( 4 months) = 750 pounds
Line check to end of training contract (3.5 months) = 5330 pounds
Total after 7.5 months with the company = 6080 pounds.
It will now have been 6 months since base check. You will now go on the basic second officer terms. This amounts to a basic annual rate of 14000 pounds and half sector pay for a further 6 months.
In these 6 months you will therefore earn 7000 pounds basic and about 4800 pounds sector pay. This basic rate is also being reduced annually without notice.
Ok, here are the final figures (before tax) for the first 12 months after the base check:
Basic pay: 9530 pounds
Sector pay: 8350 pounds
Total: 17880 Pounds.
You can expect to remain on second officer pay scale for 18 months after line check. This will probably increase to a greater time period as time goes by.
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terms and cond
Ok couple of things i have heard to keep the facts straight....the F/O in question that put up his T/C for the first year was a cadet with 250 hours, he was not hired as an fo, so what does he expect for his first job if you guys with 250 dont like the terms go be a flight instructor to get some experience...the above post was for F/O with experience!!!!
Second of all the guys that are said to be making 130 000 are through brookfield and work for ryan air that way.............(tre tri)
and as far as upgrades at ryan air, 3000 jar 25 experiece no senority list for upgrades because anyone with that experience will be offered a command course no matter what and if they do not make the grade they are considered senior f/os
you all need to get your facts straight....go down to stanstead on a friday instead of venting on here
jeez i dont even work for them but at least my posts come from fact instead of rumours
csf
Second of all the guys that are said to be making 130 000 are through brookfield and work for ryan air that way.............(tre tri)
and as far as upgrades at ryan air, 3000 jar 25 experiece no senority list for upgrades because anyone with that experience will be offered a command course no matter what and if they do not make the grade they are considered senior f/os
you all need to get your facts straight....go down to stanstead on a friday instead of venting on here
jeez i dont even work for them but at least my posts come from fact instead of rumours
csf
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jeez i dont even work for them but at least my posts come from fact instead of rumours
Last edited by ifleeplanes; 10th Jun 2005 at 20:13.
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chockstarfish
If this is what you call getting your facts right, you are in need of divine help. You have produced tittle-tattle with a particular twist as "fact". You have also told us a few things about your attitudes to junior co-pilots, seniority and what you consider to be proper treatment of people who join on one basis and end up being treated differently from the pre-employment promises (which is what makes it relevant to this thread).
Here's an example:
You yourself use the words "are said to be". In fact, by way of example, it is all over the press in Dublin that this is what the captains there earn. But they don't. You purport to correct ifleeplanes but his post contains important and correct information that you wish to either ignore or disparage. Whatever that may be, it is not "keeping the facts straight".
If this is what you call getting your facts right, you are in need of divine help. You have produced tittle-tattle with a particular twist as "fact". You have also told us a few things about your attitudes to junior co-pilots, seniority and what you consider to be proper treatment of people who join on one basis and end up being treated differently from the pre-employment promises (which is what makes it relevant to this thread).
Here's an example:
the guys that are said to be making 130 000 ...
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If one puts together the sum total of posts on this forum abour Ryanair it appears clear that they are a complete bunch of Mill Owning Tossers! Why anyone would want to work for such a bunch of people amazes me.
Do Ryanair employees have to pay for the wire brush that gets stuffed up 'em?
Do Ryanair employees have to pay for the wire brush that gets stuffed up 'em?
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well then
well then tell us how you started at ryan with how many hours, and your background and exactly what happened first year, what was promised and what was not given......
that would be of some interest......
csf
applies to any one that works for them that went in not as a CADET
that would be of some interest......
csf
applies to any one that works for them that went in not as a CADET
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Amazed that some of you want to drag this thread out as long as possible as if in the hope that somewhere FR will suddenly become a great place to work. It's a GASH airline, not the real world of aviation and not worth crossing the road to work for. It can't be made clearer than that. The only thing not mentioned before about this shower of lying cheating so and so's is the strong back you need for their medical. You will spend so much time bent over taking it up the rear that you need one! Believe NOTHING they tell you and expect multiple changes to your terms. The training is wham bam get on the line quick stuff and the CRM is non existent. Even their head of training on the 200 in Dublin has failed his sim ride more than once! If you really want to go loco go to Easy.
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vfenext:
Now there's an interesting quote.
" Even their head of training on the 200 in Dublin has failed his sim ride more than once!"
Given what has been alleged in the John Goss case about a certain captain, and is hear-say about many others in the history of RYR, this would be a case for dismissal. I wonder if this is quite true; and I wonder if the bold TRE, (more than one ) is still around? If so, what a tale he would have to tell!?
Now there's an interesting quote.
" Even their head of training on the 200 in Dublin has failed his sim ride more than once!"
Given what has been alleged in the John Goss case about a certain captain, and is hear-say about many others in the history of RYR, this would be a case for dismissal. I wonder if this is quite true; and I wonder if the bold TRE, (more than one ) is still around? If so, what a tale he would have to tell!?
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In answer to Grease weasle's question, as a London based captain I am clearing £5000-5300 per month. That means I can afford Bengerman's wire brush, though I haven't needed it yet.
Additional benefits are scarce, but there are a few bits about. With that take home though, and the decent rosters, it's a fairly good package. It's the cadets on the training salaries who are suffering, but at least they're not unemployed or working as PPL instructors.
Additional benefits are scarce, but there are a few bits about. With that take home though, and the decent rosters, it's a fairly good package. It's the cadets on the training salaries who are suffering, but at least they're not unemployed or working as PPL instructors.
... thats only about £400 more than an easyJet skipper, plus we get crew food/hot drinks, some other bits - and more importantly we can actually book leave! (but not necessarily when we want it... 
)
)
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Whippersnapper - how many days a month would you by flying to earn that money? If that's after tax it's pretty good but how long is it going to take to be a captain once you get into an airline?
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We work 5 on 3 off ad-infinitum...and we WILL do 900 hours a year. That quote was after tax and it will take an ab initio new joiner (250hrs joiner) about 3-4 years to get a look at captaincy.
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Damn hard work!
I know people who work in what I do (radio) who are in management and scratch their you know whats in a Mon-Fri 9-5 and earn the same money.
Anyway don't mean to intrude just wanted to find out!
Thanks...
I know people who work in what I do (radio) who are in management and scratch their you know whats in a Mon-Fri 9-5 and earn the same money.
Anyway don't mean to intrude just wanted to find out!
Thanks...
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Re the pay, I'm on year 1, so am getting less than the older hands. As for crew food, getting it is one thing, eating it another!
I'm doing 90-100 hrs in 13 or14 days work. Typically do 4 days flying and 1 sby, or 3 fly and 2 sby. It is VERY rare that I getted called out. With the roster structure, I don't get very tired, and all 3 days of the weekend are productive. I'll run out of hours in Jan/Feb, so will have a month or two with little flying, but woth 0 flying the nett pay is just over £3000pm, so it's still enough not to feel the pinch.
And all the leave I have requested is booked on the dates I wanted.
Overall, I'm pretty happy.
I'm doing 90-100 hrs in 13 or14 days work. Typically do 4 days flying and 1 sby, or 3 fly and 2 sby. It is VERY rare that I getted called out. With the roster structure, I don't get very tired, and all 3 days of the weekend are productive. I'll run out of hours in Jan/Feb, so will have a month or two with little flying, but woth 0 flying the nett pay is just over £3000pm, so it's still enough not to feel the pinch.
And all the leave I have requested is booked on the dates I wanted.
Overall, I'm pretty happy.
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Finally some answers from people in the know who don't have to take another opportunity to slag everything off - although the wire brush comment was brilliant!!!!! 
From what I've heard......:
No pension?
5/3 often becomes 4/4
Staff travel is cheapish but stand-by
Pay your own medical, hotac for recurrent sim, food/drink, loss of license, travel in general? (eg to sim), uniform etc etc
If you join with the magic 3000 (decent) hrs how long to command - 6 months?????
And what I'd really like to know - pay abroad. Capt pay abroad = FO pay UK????? Anything you hear about tax free salaries in Europe imho steer well clear of.........
Ciao tutti........
From what I've heard......:
No pension?
5/3 often becomes 4/4
Staff travel is cheapish but stand-by
Pay your own medical, hotac for recurrent sim, food/drink, loss of license, travel in general? (eg to sim), uniform etc etc
If you join with the magic 3000 (decent) hrs how long to command - 6 months?????
And what I'd really like to know - pay abroad. Capt pay abroad = FO pay UK????? Anything you hear about tax free salaries in Europe imho steer well clear of.........
Ciao tutti........
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To get a sense of perspective here, I am an easyJet captain and I earnt £4300 last month based on 84 hours flying. We get a 7% pension contribution (I put in 5%), loss of licence cover and no private health insurance. It seems to me that a Ryanair captain earns substantially more than an easyJet one. Despite that I would much prefer to work for easyJet (apart from anything else, the Airbus is just great to fly)!
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There are as amny similarities as there are differences between EZY and RYR, and having worked for both, I am in a position to know (before anyone starts casting apertions).
The standards of crew and trg are similar, as is the type of flying. Rostering at RYR is far superior, but EZY have a better system for leave. Pay is better at RYR, though there are less benefits (RYR pilots still come out reasonably well ahead of their counterparts after paying all their own pensions and insurances though).
I, and my fellow defectors, have also found the working environment far less political and hypocritcal than our previous employer, though there is an unneccessary level of corporate agression. It really is swings and roundabouts, but most of us that have worked for both have a strong preference for yellow and blue.
I do take strong exception to Vfenext's "gash" remark. The stories he bases that remark on are mostly exageraed or fabricated, mostly (I suspect) by EZY mgmt. It's a dirty side to corporate tactics that all companies get involved with, but with PR being less of a priority in RYR than cost base, the mud sticks better and gets washed off less often than in the spin obsessed EZY.
We are all professionals, and I view it as a personal insult that I would work for a gash operator. I did have concerns on joining RYR, as there is often fire behind so much smoke, but I was suprised at just how unfounded the compan'y reputation is - it is actually very well controlled and has operational standards very similar to EZY, with a similarly healthy level of professionalism by the crews. Maybe if Vref had ever been to RYR, or spoken with anyone who works there, he wouldn't have posted such a daft remark.
EZY certainly can be a good place if it wants to, and many bases have a fair standard of morale, but it's patchy, with terrible conditions and morale in LTN. RYR seems generally more level, and is generally on par with the best of the EZY bases. It's good, even if it's not to everyones' taste.
The standards of crew and trg are similar, as is the type of flying. Rostering at RYR is far superior, but EZY have a better system for leave. Pay is better at RYR, though there are less benefits (RYR pilots still come out reasonably well ahead of their counterparts after paying all their own pensions and insurances though).
I, and my fellow defectors, have also found the working environment far less political and hypocritcal than our previous employer, though there is an unneccessary level of corporate agression. It really is swings and roundabouts, but most of us that have worked for both have a strong preference for yellow and blue.
I do take strong exception to Vfenext's "gash" remark. The stories he bases that remark on are mostly exageraed or fabricated, mostly (I suspect) by EZY mgmt. It's a dirty side to corporate tactics that all companies get involved with, but with PR being less of a priority in RYR than cost base, the mud sticks better and gets washed off less often than in the spin obsessed EZY.
We are all professionals, and I view it as a personal insult that I would work for a gash operator. I did have concerns on joining RYR, as there is often fire behind so much smoke, but I was suprised at just how unfounded the compan'y reputation is - it is actually very well controlled and has operational standards very similar to EZY, with a similarly healthy level of professionalism by the crews. Maybe if Vref had ever been to RYR, or spoken with anyone who works there, he wouldn't have posted such a daft remark.
EZY certainly can be a good place if it wants to, and many bases have a fair standard of morale, but it's patchy, with terrible conditions and morale in LTN. RYR seems generally more level, and is generally on par with the best of the EZY bases. It's good, even if it's not to everyones' taste.
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Whippersnapper pretty much has it right,it isn't all bad ,it isn't all good, but in the current state of the industry what is worth doing these days?Hope my kids find another plan for looking after their Dad in his old age! Grease Weasel, you can expect 5500-6000 euro take home from a European base if married and paying Irish tax/social charges on a permanent Captain contract ;for this princely sum you will fly as close to 900hrs a year(a RYR year that is /1april-1april!)as humanly(not humanely)possible and average 4 days flying and one standby in your 5 day block at most bases;99%of the time 5 early 3 off 5 late 3 off and they seem to dick around with the roster less than any company I have experienced before, except in that magical time leading up to 1april,and when they are short i.e. now!Their man-management skills are pretty well documented on other threads/either join with a thick skin,or grow one fast if you choose to stay.
Last edited by captplaystation; 16th Jun 2005 at 21:56.
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Blimey!!
5500 to 6000 euros (+ - 3900 pounds) for a captain in a European base. No food, no water, no uniform, no pension, no medicals, no loss of license no nothing; and all of that to fly 900 hours a year.
Man and I thougth that you guys were one of the best paid pilots in Europe.
Copied from Ryanair web page:
What’s on offer – 5 reasons to become a Ryanair Pilot.
1. Outstanding Earnings Potential
Ryanair Pilots are recognised as the best paid short haul pilots in Europe. Senior pilots in Ryanair have excellent remuneration packages as follows:
Captains UK Up to £100,000 / EU Up to €130,000
First Officers (1,500 hrs) UK Up to £70,000 / EU Up to €80,000
At Ryanair there are no seniority lists and there are no complicated salary scales, you can expect to reach these amounts in 3 – 5 years, with more if you take on a line training role.
I don´t understand because those numbers don´t add up and seems to me that you guys in EU are getting shafted. If that is true I think Ryanair pilots have one of the crappiest T&C in Europe.
5500 to 6000 euros (+ - 3900 pounds) for a captain in a European base. No food, no water, no uniform, no pension, no medicals, no loss of license no nothing; and all of that to fly 900 hours a year.
Man and I thougth that you guys were one of the best paid pilots in Europe.
Copied from Ryanair web page:
What’s on offer – 5 reasons to become a Ryanair Pilot.
1. Outstanding Earnings Potential
Ryanair Pilots are recognised as the best paid short haul pilots in Europe. Senior pilots in Ryanair have excellent remuneration packages as follows:
Captains UK Up to £100,000 / EU Up to €130,000
First Officers (1,500 hrs) UK Up to £70,000 / EU Up to €80,000
At Ryanair there are no seniority lists and there are no complicated salary scales, you can expect to reach these amounts in 3 – 5 years, with more if you take on a line training role.
I don´t understand because those numbers don´t add up and seems to me that you guys in EU are getting shafted. If that is true I think Ryanair pilots have one of the crappiest T&C in Europe.