How Many Pilots pull a Sickie when there not?
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One of my colleagues booked off "sick" 2 days a month for nearly 6 months. We have a computerised roster at work and everyone can see how much overtime you've worked and how often you've been sick.
It always gets noticed and it's a black mark next to your name that wont go away for a very loooong time.
It always gets noticed and it's a black mark next to your name that wont go away for a very loooong time.
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Well FF is definitely CC, at BEST. And not that smart about it either, judging by the use of "there".
I think the fact FF hasn't been back to defend himself speaks volumes. You guys are all suckers for trying to convince him he should not be doing this sickie business. Why don't you ask him what FADEC stands for and watch him fall apart....
LegsApartLucy how are the warts coming along? Why would you call in sick just for that? Is is so bad you can't focus on the job?
I think LAL and FF are the same person.
I think the fact FF hasn't been back to defend himself speaks volumes. You guys are all suckers for trying to convince him he should not be doing this sickie business. Why don't you ask him what FADEC stands for and watch him fall apart....
LegsApartLucy how are the warts coming along? Why would you call in sick just for that? Is is so bad you can't focus on the job?
I think LAL and FF are the same person.
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Unfortunately this kind of thing is on the up and up. It is created because there is no flexibility in LOCO rosters. If your sisters wedding is not on a day off and you havent had your requested leave then you are stuffed...YOU WILL NOT GET THE DAY OFF. So what do you do, go OK and go to work and send your sister a congrats telegram?..or do you have a cold?
It is not a question of poor proffessionalism, or spite for other crew. It is about our perception of what is fair.
I must admit that 3-4 days a month is taking the P##S ,but on the odd occasion because of the companies inflexible attitude it is to be expected!
If you are off regularly and not sick you are making those that are sick look bad.
It is not a question of poor proffessionalism, or spite for other crew. It is about our perception of what is fair.
I must admit that 3-4 days a month is taking the P##S ,but on the odd occasion because of the companies inflexible attitude it is to be expected!
If you are off regularly and not sick you are making those that are sick look bad.
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I would hazard that the DELIBERATE misuse of there/they're/their is a common ploy used by those wishing to hide their identity or otherwise mislead.
I notice "she" has no problem with spelling in any of her other posts.
Journo or management, FF?
I notice "she" has no problem with spelling in any of her other posts.
Journo or management, FF?
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THE FACTS ! FULL STOP.
The sickness issue is a one within all companies, not just within the airline industry. You may remember that Tesco's reported an increased amount of sickness within its staff, and decided not to pay their staff when less than 3 days off sick were taken.
Anyway, these processes are illegal.
Here are the facts which I'm pretty sure will make everyone think twice before calling in sick next time.
The majority of employees are entitled to statutory sick pay if they have to take the time off because they are unwell. At this time, my belief is that the statutory pay is £64.35 a week, and this pay is payable ony after the first three days of your illness.
All companies have a written policy on sick leave. These instructions will detail who in personel must be called, or if you must contact several departments on the first day of your sickness (i.e. crew control and cabin crew supervisors). These rules will also point out how many days you can be ill before providing a doctors certificate.
Now, if you are very often away from work on short term illnesses that are not part of a long term or more serious condition, your employer may have the right to dismiss you, but not before investigating your absences and going through the standard disciplinary procedure, giving you an opportunity to defend yourself. If you are dismissed without any warning because of absenteeism, you might be able to claim for unfair dismissal.
This is why companies have a sickness monitoring policy. I'm pretty sure Fiona is not being truthful in her declarations, as it would have triggered the sickness review policy. Unless you have a chronic illness, there aren't many explanations you can give for being sick several days in one month. And if you do have a medical condition, then although this doesn't seem humanly right, the company has the right to dismiss you as this condition makes it impossible for you to do your job.
Therefore, in such conditions, rules are easily bent by the companies, and intimidation is used, which is completely illegal. This is why it is important to be part of an airline union. You may think they are crap, but they have a legal responsibility to back up your grievence claims.
I'm currently in the process of designing a website which will offer free legal advice to any worker within the airline industry, making it easier for airline staff to understand the rules, but most importantly, know their rights, and not be intimidated to claim for victimisation, unfair dismissal, discrimination (Direct and Indirect) and harrassment (which often comes up during sickness reporting)
I'll inform you of the URL as soon as the website is out.
Regards
Anyway, these processes are illegal.
Here are the facts which I'm pretty sure will make everyone think twice before calling in sick next time.
The majority of employees are entitled to statutory sick pay if they have to take the time off because they are unwell. At this time, my belief is that the statutory pay is £64.35 a week, and this pay is payable ony after the first three days of your illness.
All companies have a written policy on sick leave. These instructions will detail who in personel must be called, or if you must contact several departments on the first day of your sickness (i.e. crew control and cabin crew supervisors). These rules will also point out how many days you can be ill before providing a doctors certificate.
Now, if you are very often away from work on short term illnesses that are not part of a long term or more serious condition, your employer may have the right to dismiss you, but not before investigating your absences and going through the standard disciplinary procedure, giving you an opportunity to defend yourself. If you are dismissed without any warning because of absenteeism, you might be able to claim for unfair dismissal.
This is why companies have a sickness monitoring policy. I'm pretty sure Fiona is not being truthful in her declarations, as it would have triggered the sickness review policy. Unless you have a chronic illness, there aren't many explanations you can give for being sick several days in one month. And if you do have a medical condition, then although this doesn't seem humanly right, the company has the right to dismiss you as this condition makes it impossible for you to do your job.
Therefore, in such conditions, rules are easily bent by the companies, and intimidation is used, which is completely illegal. This is why it is important to be part of an airline union. You may think they are crap, but they have a legal responsibility to back up your grievence claims.
I'm currently in the process of designing a website which will offer free legal advice to any worker within the airline industry, making it easier for airline staff to understand the rules, but most importantly, know their rights, and not be intimidated to claim for victimisation, unfair dismissal, discrimination (Direct and Indirect) and harrassment (which often comes up during sickness reporting)
I'll inform you of the URL as soon as the website is out.
Regards
ex-Tanker
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There was a girl from Barking Creek
Who had her monthlies twice a week
Her friend from Woking
said How provoking
you miss the poking
So as to speak.
Now - 3-4 days a month...
Who had her monthlies twice a week
Her friend from Woking
said How provoking
you miss the poking
So as to speak.
Now - 3-4 days a month...
Thread Starter
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Full Authority Digital Engine Control! Ha, now who looks the idiot?
abra.
It matters alot if your spelling is correct. It is one of lifes major issues. Just a thought but wasn't the English language created to convey a message? Mybae you sohlud sduty the art of cmoumnacotin.
Now back to the thread.
Pulling a sickie is common practice. I believe it is higher in Aviation because of the way the staff are treated. Personally my family come way before the people I work with. Yes they are my colleagues but quite frankly I don't give a stuff about any one of them. My family mean more to me than anything in this world and all I am doing is making them more of a priority than work. It is your choice if you decide to put work before your home life.
Unfortunately the Airlines have brought this sorry state of affairs on themselves. They have nobody else to blame for the current high level of sickness that haunts them.
As for those of you that criticise me for taking a few extra days sick, can you honestly tell me you have never done it yourself? One day off sick when your not is just as morally bad as a month off. So don't tell me I'm out of order. Do you not think your being selfish towards your family by working every hour God sends? I know of a company that has just taken 3 days holiday off all their staff without any agreement. But I guess that is OK. Pilots are human at the end of the day and people will do what they have to do. You may not like the idea of sickies but it is a fact of life that most decent people will put their family first.
abra.
It matters alot if your spelling is correct. It is one of lifes major issues. Just a thought but wasn't the English language created to convey a message? Mybae you sohlud sduty the art of cmoumnacotin.
Now back to the thread.
Pulling a sickie is common practice. I believe it is higher in Aviation because of the way the staff are treated. Personally my family come way before the people I work with. Yes they are my colleagues but quite frankly I don't give a stuff about any one of them. My family mean more to me than anything in this world and all I am doing is making them more of a priority than work. It is your choice if you decide to put work before your home life.
Unfortunately the Airlines have brought this sorry state of affairs on themselves. They have nobody else to blame for the current high level of sickness that haunts them.
As for those of you that criticise me for taking a few extra days sick, can you honestly tell me you have never done it yourself? One day off sick when your not is just as morally bad as a month off. So don't tell me I'm out of order. Do you not think your being selfish towards your family by working every hour God sends? I know of a company that has just taken 3 days holiday off all their staff without any agreement. But I guess that is OK. Pilots are human at the end of the day and people will do what they have to do. You may not like the idea of sickies but it is a fact of life that most decent people will put their family first.
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Flying Fiona,
Let's just stick to facts. Regardless to whether you wish to spend more time with your family or not, I think you are walking a tight rope ! On a legal point of view, you have signed a contract with your employer agreeing to work even unsociable hours. If your personal conditions have changed, I can only recommend a career change, as I do believe it would look better on your CV that you resigned from your job, instead of being dismissed from it for gross misconduct, but obviously, this is your call.
I appreciate where you are coming from with regards to poor working conditions, and I do believe that due to these conditions, a lot of airline staff would report sick for a slight headache, but with all your respect, establishing a pattern like you are doing is a bit foolish as you are only attracting your companies attention.
Just read my previous post regarding your companies rights in this situation, and I wish you luck in getting your priorities right.
All the best to you.
Let's just stick to facts. Regardless to whether you wish to spend more time with your family or not, I think you are walking a tight rope ! On a legal point of view, you have signed a contract with your employer agreeing to work even unsociable hours. If your personal conditions have changed, I can only recommend a career change, as I do believe it would look better on your CV that you resigned from your job, instead of being dismissed from it for gross misconduct, but obviously, this is your call.
I appreciate where you are coming from with regards to poor working conditions, and I do believe that due to these conditions, a lot of airline staff would report sick for a slight headache, but with all your respect, establishing a pattern like you are doing is a bit foolish as you are only attracting your companies attention.
Just read my previous post regarding your companies rights in this situation, and I wish you luck in getting your priorities right.
All the best to you.
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Nice one Fiona....... I take back what I said, you are definitely smarter than I thought. Smart enough to work a google search on FADEC, the first result of 1000s.
Good to see you came back to nurse your troll along.
I guess being a hostie has prepared you for all of life's challenges. This is a good thing.
This is not bad. 4 pages of bites to your original bait.
The word "Tool" springs to mind.
Good to see you came back to nurse your troll along.
I guess being a hostie has prepared you for all of life's challenges. This is a good thing.
This is not bad. 4 pages of bites to your original bait.
The word "Tool" springs to mind.
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Flying Fiona
I'm slightly confused. With all the posts you make in other threads, you make out you are a FlyBE employee, with your 'I know all and have heard it straight form management' attitude....
In your post above, you say 'I know of one company that has taken 3 days leave off all the staff'...... Now those of us who really are from the land of 'We're not low-cost, we're low fares (but we'll pay crew lower than lo-co wages, and have CC clean the a/c like lo-co)' (FlyBE) obviously know that it's our brilliant company that have taken leave off us.
I'm just wondering whether you might be slightly worried now admitting that you work for us, because any FlyBE ops/crewing person could read this post, do a quick search for company sickies, and it would have been yourself that alerted them to your terrible behaviour.... Or do you not really work for FlyBE, and all prvious threads are basically BS???
I'm slightly confused. With all the posts you make in other threads, you make out you are a FlyBE employee, with your 'I know all and have heard it straight form management' attitude....
In your post above, you say 'I know of one company that has taken 3 days leave off all the staff'...... Now those of us who really are from the land of 'We're not low-cost, we're low fares (but we'll pay crew lower than lo-co wages, and have CC clean the a/c like lo-co)' (FlyBE) obviously know that it's our brilliant company that have taken leave off us.
I'm just wondering whether you might be slightly worried now admitting that you work for us, because any FlyBE ops/crewing person could read this post, do a quick search for company sickies, and it would have been yourself that alerted them to your terrible behaviour.... Or do you not really work for FlyBE, and all prvious threads are basically BS???
Fiona.Join Date: Mar 2001
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Flying Fiona - indeed as er82 pointed there are indeed Op's and crewing personnel that read these threads.
Dont you think that flying might not not be the right career for you ????
And what about your collegues - how do you like having your life mucked around, being called off standby and doing nightstop's and all because you one of you collegues cant hack it !! You would'nt like it if your collegues did it to you so why do it to them...
As you value your family life so much above everything else would you not be better working a monday to friday 9-5pm office job - as all pilot's and cabin crew know, unsociable hour's, nightstops go with the job it's part of the job desription.
No Airline is perfect whatever you may think - flybe is no worse than anybody else,were certainly not perfect but if you speak to a pilot or cabin crew from any other airline - they will all say they are overworked, and how badly crewed they are and they dont spend enough time at home.
It's people like you - going sick just because they feel like it that make the situation worse and so make it deteoriate for your collegues and yourself and so we just end up going around in circles.....
(now stand back and wait's for torent of abuse....)
Dont you think that flying might not not be the right career for you ????
And what about your collegues - how do you like having your life mucked around, being called off standby and doing nightstop's and all because you one of you collegues cant hack it !! You would'nt like it if your collegues did it to you so why do it to them...
As you value your family life so much above everything else would you not be better working a monday to friday 9-5pm office job - as all pilot's and cabin crew know, unsociable hour's, nightstops go with the job it's part of the job desription.
No Airline is perfect whatever you may think - flybe is no worse than anybody else,were certainly not perfect but if you speak to a pilot or cabin crew from any other airline - they will all say they are overworked, and how badly crewed they are and they dont spend enough time at home.
It's people like you - going sick just because they feel like it that make the situation worse and so make it deteoriate for your collegues and yourself and so we just end up going around in circles.....
(now stand back and wait's for torent of abuse....)
Está servira para distraerle.
WGAs one who operated for so long on the other side of your fence; I agree with you. But one of the realities is this: Which company carries sufficient standbys so that crew are not woken at funn ny hours of the night and 'asked' to fly when on a 'Day Off'?
The secret of a comfortable relationship with crewing lies in a little expenditure and much relief.
Put in another telephone line. Buy another mobile. Make sure that only crewing have these two numbers. That way, if either telephone ever rings, it will be the boys with whom you may, or may not, wish to speak. If you feel guilty about this; put an answering machine on the landline.
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WG
Wouldn't want to disappoint you.
I am so sick of hearing this GARBAGE - there is NO GOOD REASON why a pilot or anybody else working for an airline should not expect to be able to have a life outside work. On occasion things go wrong yes thats part of the job but most of the problems arise from undercrewing and incompetence - simple as that.
You're WRONG about all other airlines too - there are some who have copped on to the fact that it saves money to have a decent roster.
Look at Ryanair - do you think they provide a steady roster because they care about pilots lifestyles?Or do you think they have found it SAVES MONEY?
Anyone got any kids - I need my chimney sweeping!
Wouldn't want to disappoint you.
As you value your family life so much above everything else would you not be better working a monday to friday 9-5pm office job - as all pilot's and cabin crew know, unsociable hour's, nightstops go with the job it's part of the job desription
You're WRONG about all other airlines too - there are some who have copped on to the fact that it saves money to have a decent roster.
Look at Ryanair - do you think they provide a steady roster because they care about pilots lifestyles?Or do you think they have found it SAVES MONEY?
Anyone got any kids - I need my chimney sweeping!
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I'm pretty much with WG on this one. (Loyalty and all that!) It's going sick that disrupts other people's lifestyles. I once had to sit in BRS for 5 hrs, waiting to pick up a flight which I was to then operate. Found it all highly un-amusing, as we don't even have a crew room there where I could escape from pax. About 2 months later, it turns out, and it came straight from the 'sickies' mouth, he'd actually got a mate to call in sick for him so he could go on the piss! WG - Hope it all got sorted last night! While you were working hard (?!) I was sat eating Banoffe Pie!!
However, I'm afraid that CC is also totally correct. Coming straight from a Manager last weekend, after some serious disruption yet again, it's not 'company policy' to have Captains on standby in the afternoon. That was from the three southern bases. Doesn't make it easy for crewing to sort a problem when there's no standby cover. And that's just stupid.
As for Stan Woolley, you're right. Flight crew can have a life outside work. But taking sick days so that they can get days off with their family is wrong. Accept that you will work shifts, and have unsociable hours, work weekends, be sent away occasionally, and sometimes get stuck because of weather/tech aircraft, and all is fine.
Pull a sicky so that you can have a weekend off, and that's where you'll get problems. If everyone did it, there'd be no crew at any weekend, and the company would collapse. What makes it ok for one to do, and not another??
However, I'm afraid that CC is also totally correct. Coming straight from a Manager last weekend, after some serious disruption yet again, it's not 'company policy' to have Captains on standby in the afternoon. That was from the three southern bases. Doesn't make it easy for crewing to sort a problem when there's no standby cover. And that's just stupid.
As for Stan Woolley, you're right. Flight crew can have a life outside work. But taking sick days so that they can get days off with their family is wrong. Accept that you will work shifts, and have unsociable hours, work weekends, be sent away occasionally, and sometimes get stuck because of weather/tech aircraft, and all is fine.
Pull a sicky so that you can have a weekend off, and that's where you'll get problems. If everyone did it, there'd be no crew at any weekend, and the company would collapse. What makes it ok for one to do, and not another??
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I didn't make a judgement about 'sickies' being right or wrong, just about some of the reasons they happen.
It's obvious that 'sickies' compound any problems but if you address the bigger issues very few pilots will abuse the system, those that do should be sacked.
Never enough crew, tugs, loaders, dispatchers etc all in short supply but funny how the bonuses are always affordable.
FF do yourself and your colleagues a favour and move on.
It's obvious that 'sickies' compound any problems but if you address the bigger issues very few pilots will abuse the system, those that do should be sacked.
Never enough crew, tugs, loaders, dispatchers etc all in short supply but funny how the bonuses are always affordable.
FF do yourself and your colleagues a favour and move on.
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Well, it is only my personal opinion but, I think you guys and gals have got it all wrong!
Anyone who thinks it is quite OK take take 3 to 4 'pulled' sickies a month is seriously sick, f*$%^&@ nuts, in fact!
Leave the industry FF, you are surplus to requirement, quite apart from needing professional help.
Anyone who thinks it is quite OK take take 3 to 4 'pulled' sickies a month is seriously sick, f*$%^&@ nuts, in fact!
Leave the industry FF, you are surplus to requirement, quite apart from needing professional help.