Onur Air Turkey info? (Merged)
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OK flyingoli, but why for years Onur was tolerated? They have been warned to fix things, but it has been for years and no one told anything....
I do not know sky or corendon, but Pegasus looks OK....
Having a qualified crew member, its like in Korean, where FAA impounded to have a "European" crew member after the Stansted crash, this is a good idea. But is this european guy going also to fix the A/C
And I may insist but some FR aircraft have seen the grass from very close, maybe its because the low houred pilots where more used to grass rwy than tarmac one's
I do not know sky or corendon, but Pegasus looks OK....
Having a qualified crew member, its like in Korean, where FAA impounded to have a "European" crew member after the Stansted crash, this is a good idea. But is this european guy going also to fix the A/C
And I may insist but some FR aircraft have seen the grass from very close, maybe its because the low houred pilots where more used to grass rwy than tarmac one's
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Yes EDDN,
You are true, but I mean that if they had stop the flight in january, Onur had probaly fixed all the problems before summer.
But now they have no time, you know it's like a kid, if you say I will to him, he understand ok there is no rush I can do it several times again before the sanction. What I mean is that the deutch DGAC know that Onur is a bad kid's.
You are true Blue Volta,
There is some great guy\'s and companies in Turkey, even if sometimes I don\'t understand everythings.
You are true also about Fr, but you know sometimes the 2 pilots in the cockpit don\'t even see the grass, because they are to occupied to complain about the working conditions in Fr
No Behind the jokes there is a big security problem.
You are true, but I mean that if they had stop the flight in january, Onur had probaly fixed all the problems before summer.
But now they have no time, you know it's like a kid, if you say I will to him, he understand ok there is no rush I can do it several times again before the sanction. What I mean is that the deutch DGAC know that Onur is a bad kid's.
You are true Blue Volta,
There is some great guy\'s and companies in Turkey, even if sometimes I don\'t understand everythings.
You are true also about Fr, but you know sometimes the 2 pilots in the cockpit don\'t even see the grass, because they are to occupied to complain about the working conditions in Fr
No Behind the jokes there is a big security problem.
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And finally what will happen?
Who will carry all the passengers? An other turkish carrier? An EU carrier?
It will be a mess for the week end, and then there will be a "new" airline, lets say NUR AIR or ONU AIR, a new AOC, some white paint and here we go...
Who will carry all the passengers? An other turkish carrier? An EU carrier?
It will be a mess for the week end, and then there will be a "new" airline, lets say NUR AIR or ONU AIR, a new AOC, some white paint and here we go...
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Dear Sir/ Madam,
After an inappropriate action, Onur Air has been subject to a rather unfortunate and unfair treatment by Dutch Air and Sea Transport Authority - Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat and our flights to Netherlands are stopped for one month as of yesterday. Onur Air has been holding 50 percent of whole package holiday market in Netherlands as result of its long time satisfactory performance and commercial stability. We have a well-earned reputation in Netherlands as proven by millions of travallers and nearly all Dutch tourism organisations chosen us. The reason of the ban was reported to be the result of a technical problem on one of Onur Air's aircraft last week in Amsterdam, but statistically, it is reported that one airline has a technical delay everyday in Netherlands. In this case dozens of airlines should be stopped operating to Netherlands every month. Unfortunately, German DGCA has followingly stopped our operation to Germany without any event, just as a result of Netherlands's decision. We currently fly to 73 airports in Europe with our 25 aircraft since 14 years now. Our highest achievement awards from Airbus, Boeing and many tour-operators have been acknowledged by all authorities. We believe we have right to be treated equally and fairly with all other airlines in Europe under EASA regulations Yours Sincerely, Hamit Cankut Bagana President Onur Air Turkey
Yours Sincerely,
Hamit Cankut Bagana
President Onur Air
Turkey
note:copied from onur air web page yesterday,but now that letter became turkish. www.onurair.com.tr
For your info, the ban now also extends to Switzerland and France other than holland and germany
By the way like it is said at their letter that they are flying for last 14 years and at the last winter season they were safe for holland and one of a sudden before summer high season holland figured out that they are not safe anymore!!It doesn\'t smell that good....
Dear Sir/ Madam,
After an inappropriate action, Onur Air has been subject to a rather unfortunate and unfair treatment by Dutch Air and Sea Transport Authority - Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat and our flights to Netherlands are stopped for one month as of yesterday. Onur Air has been holding 50 percent of whole package holiday market in Netherlands as result of its long time satisfactory performance and commercial stability. We have a well-earned reputation in Netherlands as proven by millions of travallers and nearly all Dutch tourism organisations chosen us. The reason of the ban was reported to be the result of a technical problem on one of Onur Air's aircraft last week in Amsterdam, but statistically, it is reported that one airline has a technical delay everyday in Netherlands. In this case dozens of airlines should be stopped operating to Netherlands every month. Unfortunately, German DGCA has followingly stopped our operation to Germany without any event, just as a result of Netherlands's decision. We currently fly to 73 airports in Europe with our 25 aircraft since 14 years now. Our highest achievement awards from Airbus, Boeing and many tour-operators have been acknowledged by all authorities. We believe we have right to be treated equally and fairly with all other airlines in Europe under EASA regulations Yours Sincerely, Hamit Cankut Bagana President Onur Air Turkey
Yours Sincerely,
Hamit Cankut Bagana
President Onur Air
Turkey
note:copied from onur air web page yesterday,but now that letter became turkish. www.onurair.com.tr
For your info, the ban now also extends to Switzerland and France other than holland and germany
By the way like it is said at their letter that they are flying for last 14 years and at the last winter season they were safe for holland and one of a sudden before summer high season holland figured out that they are not safe anymore!!It doesn\'t smell that good....
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I worked there one summer and absolutley agree that they've to take that break to fix the acfts. If they don't do it now there'll be no time during the peak season. The reason I quit was mx - and senior mngmt capts. blaming you for not taking sick acft.
I blame the management (commercial & flt.ops) and the guys who can't say NO!
I agree that the timing is a bit unfair and they loose quite a bit of revenue, would be sad to see them disapear - but some will only learn the hard way. It's not that they've not been warned many times before and it came out of the blue.
I blame the management (commercial & flt.ops) and the guys who can't say NO!
I agree that the timing is a bit unfair and they loose quite a bit of revenue, would be sad to see them disapear - but some will only learn the hard way. It's not that they've not been warned many times before and it came out of the blue.
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Heard that Onur Air wants to sue all three countries for messing up with its cash cows. They obviously don't seem afraid of looking stupid and arrogant.
Who will carry all the passengers? An other turkish carrier? An EU carrier?
Therefore most will go to Turkish airlines (will be an opportunity for World Focus, Pegagus and MNG). However Flyair will probably not benifit from Onur's demise as they're the next target (they received a final warning fro m the IVW).
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On CNN now Onur Air claims their aircraft are safe and intends to fight with the several Europeon countries concerning the landing rights.
I am sure that everything is well documented against this company.
Instead of admitting to the problem and stating they will make corrective actions, they would rather argue.
Some how I think this company is finished.
They cant see the forest because of the trees!
I am sure that everything is well documented against this company.
Instead of admitting to the problem and stating they will make corrective actions, they would rather argue.
Some how I think this company is finished.
They cant see the forest because of the trees!
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Angeblich wiederholt defekte Triebwerke bei Onur Air
Hamburg (AFP) - An den Maschinen der mit Flugverboten in mehreren Ländern belegten türkischen Fluglinie Onur Air sind angeblich in den vergangenen Wochen wiederholt defekte Triebwerke und abgefahrene Reifen festgestellt worden. Außerdem hätten mitzuführende Versicherungspolicen gefehlt, berichtete die "Bild am Sonntag" unter Berufung auf niederländische Luftfahrtkreise. Einige Piloten hätten ihre Fluglizenzen nicht mit im Cockpit gehabt.
Onur Air-Chef Cankut Bagana habe in seinen bisherigen Stellungnahmen zum Entzug der Flugrechte nicht die Wahrheit gesagt, berichtete das Blatt. So sei die Fluggesellschaft, anders als behauptet, in den letzten 14 Jahren nicht unfallfrei geflogen. Am 17. Juni 2002 schoss demnach eine Maschine beim Start in Groningen (Niederlande) über die Startbahn hinaus, alle 141 Passagiere mussten über Notrutschen evakuiert werden.
Onur Air habe außerdem nicht, wie von der Fluggesellschaft behauptet, ausschließlich eigene Maschinen im Einsatz, berichtete die Zeitung unter Berufung auf Luftfahrtexperten. Die Airline chartere regelmäßig hinzu, oftmals in Asien. So seien am Wochenende vor Pfingsten nicht nur drei Maschinen der portugiesischen Airlines EuroAtlantik und LuzAir im Einsatz gewesen, sondern auch ein Flugzeug der Skygate International aus Jordanien. Zur Onur-Flotte gehöre außerdem ein Airbus, der bis November 2002 für die kirgisische Fluggesellschaft "Kyrgyz International" im Einsatz war.
http://de.news.yahoo.com/050515/286/4jks1.html
Hamburg (AFP) - An den Maschinen der mit Flugverboten in mehreren Ländern belegten türkischen Fluglinie Onur Air sind angeblich in den vergangenen Wochen wiederholt defekte Triebwerke und abgefahrene Reifen festgestellt worden. Außerdem hätten mitzuführende Versicherungspolicen gefehlt, berichtete die "Bild am Sonntag" unter Berufung auf niederländische Luftfahrtkreise. Einige Piloten hätten ihre Fluglizenzen nicht mit im Cockpit gehabt.
Onur Air-Chef Cankut Bagana habe in seinen bisherigen Stellungnahmen zum Entzug der Flugrechte nicht die Wahrheit gesagt, berichtete das Blatt. So sei die Fluggesellschaft, anders als behauptet, in den letzten 14 Jahren nicht unfallfrei geflogen. Am 17. Juni 2002 schoss demnach eine Maschine beim Start in Groningen (Niederlande) über die Startbahn hinaus, alle 141 Passagiere mussten über Notrutschen evakuiert werden.
Onur Air habe außerdem nicht, wie von der Fluggesellschaft behauptet, ausschließlich eigene Maschinen im Einsatz, berichtete die Zeitung unter Berufung auf Luftfahrtexperten. Die Airline chartere regelmäßig hinzu, oftmals in Asien. So seien am Wochenende vor Pfingsten nicht nur drei Maschinen der portugiesischen Airlines EuroAtlantik und LuzAir im Einsatz gewesen, sondern auch ein Flugzeug der Skygate International aus Jordanien. Zur Onur-Flotte gehöre außerdem ein Airbus, der bis November 2002 für die kirgisische Fluggesellschaft "Kyrgyz International" im Einsatz war.
http://de.news.yahoo.com/050515/286/4jks1.html
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"Bild" and "Bild am Sonntag" got a court order some years ago denying them to call themselves "Zeitung" (news paper), because of the poor reliability of the facts published. That`s not a good source for yahoo to quote. 
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So tomorrow Onur will meet with the Dutch CAA. Hopefully somebody will be able to tell what happened. Strange case since everybody seems very certain of its case:
http://www.onurair.nl/site/default.htm
As far as I am concerned:
If they were/are unsafe I am most pleased they are banned and I blame the Turkish CAA for not controlling 'their' airliners. Very poor for a country that appears to be so proud and eager. Guess other Turkish airliners should be investigated as well then?
If it is only about 'paperwork' a ban looks rather overdone to me. Why not a fine or sth like that? Guess the ban would be lifted, and without justification a courtcase to claim lost profit is very likely, in addition to the embarrasment for this -as it would turn out- blunder of the Dutch CAA.
Met the Dutch CAA 2 times, once during inspection of a flight (cheap way to travel for them?), once during inspection in simulator (observing new company procedures). Altough they were friendly, we didn't get any feedback about their findings. Abroad, only had an inspection once, BRS or CWL, just a check of papers during turn around. All this in a period of 10 years, hard to believe one could end up with problems from an inspection...
[edited typo 2x]
http://www.onurair.nl/site/default.htm
As far as I am concerned:
If they were/are unsafe I am most pleased they are banned and I blame the Turkish CAA for not controlling 'their' airliners. Very poor for a country that appears to be so proud and eager. Guess other Turkish airliners should be investigated as well then?
If it is only about 'paperwork' a ban looks rather overdone to me. Why not a fine or sth like that? Guess the ban would be lifted, and without justification a courtcase to claim lost profit is very likely, in addition to the embarrasment for this -as it would turn out- blunder of the Dutch CAA.
Met the Dutch CAA 2 times, once during inspection of a flight (cheap way to travel for them?), once during inspection in simulator (observing new company procedures). Altough they were friendly, we didn't get any feedback about their findings. Abroad, only had an inspection once, BRS or CWL, just a check of papers during turn around. All this in a period of 10 years, hard to believe one could end up with problems from an inspection...
[edited typo 2x]
Last edited by LLuke; 15th May 2005 at 19:29.
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It's funny to see that now FR and Onur use the same airport. I hope there will be no problems on the tarmac or during approaches. If Onur comes in Charleroi with A300, it must be funny in the terminal.
Last edited by flyingoli; 17th May 2005 at 12:09.
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Small update:
-First meeting between Dutch and Turkish CAA and Onur Air unconclusive.
Onur Air walked angry away. During 'mutual' press conference the Turkish-CAA representative thought everything would get solved soon. Dutch representative did not see any progress.
-Onur Air goes to court and claims Dutch CAA has not proven Onu is unsafe, so a ban is not justified.
Next Wednesday, Dutch CAA goes to Istanbul. Together with Turkish a ramp inspection of Onur a/c will be done.
For those interested, see reply 68:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/2111445/
Some background info about SAFA (safety assessment foreign aircraft):
www.jaa.nl/safa/safa.html
-First meeting between Dutch and Turkish CAA and Onur Air unconclusive.
Onur Air walked angry away. During 'mutual' press conference the Turkish-CAA representative thought everything would get solved soon. Dutch representative did not see any progress.
-Onur Air goes to court and claims Dutch CAA has not proven Onu is unsafe, so a ban is not justified.
Next Wednesday, Dutch CAA goes to Istanbul. Together with Turkish a ramp inspection of Onur a/c will be done.
For those interested, see reply 68:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/2111445/
Some background info about SAFA (safety assessment foreign aircraft):
www.jaa.nl/safa/safa.html
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What the french media are trying to do?
Yesterday evening I was really schocked. I was watching the news on a big french channel, then comes a subject about Onur, what was my suprise when we seen the call center of Onur, the image was fix on a young beautiful lady with a "tchador"... As we know that in Turkey since Ataturk, there is less working girl with "tchador" than in France or in England! And when we know that in France the "tchador" is a big problem. I was just asking myself wat are the media trying to do?
We will see soon on televison, the pilots of Onur, wearing a Djelaba. Please stop this joke...
We will see soon on televison, the pilots of Onur, wearing a Djelaba. Please stop this joke...
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Banned in Belgium
If you use Belgium to transport your pax than one should expect to send 'perfect airplanes' only after all that happend in the last couple of weeks. How comes that the inspectors find things again in Belgium resulting in a ten day ban ???
Don't get it! Is that complete ignorance by the airline or are the inspectors just getting very pinky here and just try to find things to follow the other countries example?
Don't get it! Is that complete ignorance by the airline or are the inspectors just getting very pinky here and just try to find things to follow the other countries example?
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according to a newspaper the ban in Belgium is for ten days. a bit unclear if only the two inspected airplanes are banned or the complete fleet.
i hope that the full A300 emergency (incl. fuel dump) in TLV two days ago wasn't onur as well.
a friend in CPH told me that Danmark might be next to ban them as one airplane is grounded in CPH for a couple of days now.
things sure look fairly bad. but hey - they've so much cash reserve from the past hadj operations that the indicated 10mio usd loss so far are only peanuts not worth mentioning.
suggest they repaint the ship if they want to recover and continue.
i hope that the full A300 emergency (incl. fuel dump) in TLV two days ago wasn't onur as well.
a friend in CPH told me that Danmark might be next to ban them as one airplane is grounded in CPH for a couple of days now.
things sure look fairly bad. but hey - they've so much cash reserve from the past hadj operations that the indicated 10mio usd loss so far are only peanuts not worth mentioning.
suggest they repaint the ship if they want to recover and continue.
