Flight Deck Retirement Ages
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: France
Age: 73
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Obviously there will be objections that over 60 pilots can not overfly France, Italy and Portugal. My opinion is that they will have to abide by the EU Directive, which has to be implemented in all EU countries by 1st December 2006.
Any comments on this? I look forward to your replies.
Any comments on this? I look forward to your replies.
Be happy +60 boys and girls, by autumn this year you will be allowed back in the sky of France, and very welcomed too.
And this out of any EU directive.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Originally Posted by dusk2dawn
Well, all they have to do is to notify ICAO of whatever differences they like to Annex I.
Even if the French notify a difference for their nationals they will have no rights under article 33 of the Chicago convention,to refuse other pilots whose license is internationally recognised by ICAO.
At the moment they can forbid foreigners over 60 to overfly their territory or operate from their territory because the NORM for captain is 60 max, and if most of the countries have adopted a 65 age limit, it is nonetheless at present a difference from the norm and you have no right to impose your differences to other state.
With the new norm beeing voted very soon, the norm will be 65 , hence no possibility for France to forbid its territory to pilots within the norm.
C.Q.F.D.
Transparency International
Article 33
Recognition of certificates and licenses
Certificates of airworthiness and certificates of competency and licenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid by the other contracting States, provided that the requirements under which such certificates or licenses were issued or rendered valid are equal to or above the minimum standards which may be established from time to time pursuant to this Convention.
Recognition of certificates and licenses
Certificates of airworthiness and certificates of competency and licenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid by the other contracting States, provided that the requirements under which such certificates or licenses were issued or rendered valid are equal to or above the minimum standards which may be established from time to time pursuant to this Convention.
Last edited by dusk2dawn; 22nd Jan 2006 at 09:39.
Join Date: May 2000
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Hello chaps,
I will turn 60 this summer. I have been told that pilots of foreign registered aircraft may operate into, or out of, the USA provided that their foreign licence is valid. Ie at ages over 60. I have tried to find this in FAR 61 but it is not clearly specified. Pilots of USA registered aircraft are clearly banned but the rest seems open to interpretation.
Can anyone help?
Many thanks
I will turn 60 this summer. I have been told that pilots of foreign registered aircraft may operate into, or out of, the USA provided that their foreign licence is valid. Ie at ages over 60. I have tried to find this in FAR 61 but it is not clearly specified. Pilots of USA registered aircraft are clearly banned but the rest seems open to interpretation.
Can anyone help?
Many thanks
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Ancient behavior?
The unions in SAS are in great agony about this right now. EU says you can stay and some countries have made this a law about discrimination against elder!?
The union want´s to kick them out, but that they will probably win in court. When the union kicks out the most senior guys, what happens then?
They have to fly shorthaul due to restrictions in the US we have been told, but then again nobody seems to know about france..
They get full pension and keep their salary
But the company doesnt have to pay taxes and retirement funds whitch actually makes them cheaper than a 50 year old!
This is a tough one.. espessially when there is a pilot surplus.
The union want´s to kick them out, but that they will probably win in court. When the union kicks out the most senior guys, what happens then?
They have to fly shorthaul due to restrictions in the US we have been told, but then again nobody seems to know about france..
They get full pension and keep their salary
But the company doesnt have to pay taxes and retirement funds whitch actually makes them cheaper than a 50 year old!This is a tough one.. espessially when there is a pilot surplus.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Surplus is No Excuse
Why should a pilot 'surplus' have any bearing on laws that allow or restrict airline pilots from flying over 60? You imply that if their is a pilot 'shortage' the rule should be changed. Do we change it back if there is a recession and there's a surplus again? That's nuts!
If someone is healthy and competent, why retrict their career? In any other industry (in most countries) that would be illegal and the unions would pitch a fit!!!
60 as an age was yanked out of some Amrican bureaucrat's butt almost 50 years ago. Now the Americans are among the last to amend the rule.
Time they got their act together and moved into the real world with the rest of us!!!
If someone is healthy and competent, why retrict their career? In any other industry (in most countries) that would be illegal and the unions would pitch a fit!!!
60 as an age was yanked out of some Amrican bureaucrat's butt almost 50 years ago. Now the Americans are among the last to amend the rule.
Time they got their act together and moved into the real world with the rest of us!!!
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Hi Guys can someone clarify that Pilots over 60 cannot fly into Italy and Portugal plse. I've been lead to believe that the JAA are now stating that this actually says Pilots with Italian or Portuguse licences cannot fly over 60. I was under the impression it was anyone ?
Transparency International
The general JAA rule is:
-
In Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.060 it says:
Regarding the actual enforcement of these rules I know from firsthand experience that France and Italy do regular inspections of foreign aircrews. I have never seen a Portugese inspector and I have never been to Hungary.
JAR–FCL 1.060 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more
(See Appendix 1 to JARFCL 1.060)
(a) Age 60–64. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations except:
(1) as a member of a multi-pilot crew and provided that,
(2) such holder is the only pilot in the flight crew who has attained age 60.
(b) Age 65. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations.
(c) Any national variant to the requirements in (a) and (b) above are given in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.060
(See Appendix 1 to JARFCL 1.060)
(a) Age 60–64. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations except:
(1) as a member of a multi-pilot crew and provided that,
(2) such holder is the only pilot in the flight crew who has attained age 60.
(b) Age 65. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 65 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations.
(c) Any national variant to the requirements in (a) and (b) above are given in Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.060
In Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.060 it says:
Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.060
National Variants on Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more (See JAR-FCL 1.060)
National Variants
The following national variant on JAR-FCL 1.060 has been filed to the JAA:
-
- France – (F)JAR-FCL 1.060
- Italy – (I)JAR-FCL 1.060
- Portugal – (P)JAR-FCL 1.060
- Hungary – (H)JAR-FCL 1.060
-
(I)JAR–FCL 1.060 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders
aged 60 years or more (Italy)
The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.
National Variants on Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more (See JAR-FCL 1.060)
National Variants
The following national variant on JAR-FCL 1.060 has been filed to the JAA:
-
- France – (F)JAR-FCL 1.060
- Italy – (I)JAR-FCL 1.060
- Portugal – (P)JAR-FCL 1.060
- Hungary – (H)JAR-FCL 1.060
-
(I)JAR–FCL 1.060 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders
aged 60 years or more (Italy)
The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.
(F)JAR–FCL 1.060 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders
aged 60 years or more (France)
(a) According to ICAO Annex 1 standards, the holder of a pilot licence
who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations in the airspace of France.
(b) The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft in commercial air transport operations under the jurisdiction of the French National Aviation.
aged 60 years or more (France)
(a) According to ICAO Annex 1 standards, the holder of a pilot licence
who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations in the airspace of France.
(b) The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft in commercial air transport operations under the jurisdiction of the French National Aviation.
(P)JAR–FCL 1.060 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders
aged 60 years or more (Portugal)
The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.
aged 60 years or more (Portugal)
The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport.
(H)JAR–FCL 1.060 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders
aged 60 years or more (Hungary)
The holder of a pilot licence who was age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations except:
(a) As a member of a multi-pilot crew and provided that,
(b) Such holder is the only pilot in the flight crew who has attained age 60. The person who was age of 62 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations.
aged 60 years or more (Hungary)
The holder of a pilot licence who was age of 60 shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations except:
(a) As a member of a multi-pilot crew and provided that,
(b) Such holder is the only pilot in the flight crew who has attained age 60. The person who was age of 62 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport operations.
