Emirates A380 pilots - better off than tube drivers?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blighty
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates A380 pilots - better off than tube drivers?
A couple of year ago, whilst experiencing some dissatisfaction with my employer, I applied to Emirates. Recently I had an email saying my application was being reviewed and would I please update my details.
Well, that got my forty five year old heart beating a bit quicker. Goodness, I might get to fly the new Super Jumbo! Hey, way to go! The press have been full of the joys of mega planes and Emirates big order for the A380. I could escape the cold shores of Blighty, wave good bye to Tony Blair and fly happily into the tax free sunset. So, lets have a look at what is on offer. First have a look at PPJN and check out the salary. 16,760 UAE Dirhams a month. Crumbs. That's 201120 Dirhams a year. Sounds like big number. But, lets convert it back to Sterling. Ouch. Only £29365 per annum and no allowances. Thats just 2k more than a London Tube driver who gets 40 days holiday a year.. Still, I could be a pilot of the worlds biggest people carrier and transport even more SLF than a Tube Driver. Across to the Balpa website. Apparently this new 'plane can fly for twenty hours. Golly, well at least I won't have to work that hard for my 30k. I can spend half my time at work asleep - unlike a Tube Driver. Must be worth the extra 2k then.
Then, I open the Times and read an interesting article on airline economics which quotes the following statistics:
Singapore Airlines Staff Costs: 29% of revenue.
British Airways Staff Costs: 20% of revenue.
Wait for it!
Emirates Airlines Staff Costs: 17% of revenue.
Ah, so they know how to squeeze the troops too.
Coincidentally I receive an email from a friend who is a Captain in the sand. He wants to come home and join Virgin as an FO. Why? Emirates fly him 100 hours month, he has 6 days off a month and the management are aggressive.
Well that doesn't sound so good does it?
Of course, there are benefits in kind with ex pat contracts. But, I have to ask, as a Father with two kids to educate, would I ever save any money in Dubai having paid for all goods and services?
I suspect not.
So, here we have it. Move to the Gulf, work flat out in a tedious job for what sounds like an another money pinching management, hardly ever see my kids and earn 30k. Great.
I think I'll stay in Blighty, ignore Tony Blair and stick with my (not very good but adequate) flying job.
Am I missing something?
Well, that got my forty five year old heart beating a bit quicker. Goodness, I might get to fly the new Super Jumbo! Hey, way to go! The press have been full of the joys of mega planes and Emirates big order for the A380. I could escape the cold shores of Blighty, wave good bye to Tony Blair and fly happily into the tax free sunset. So, lets have a look at what is on offer. First have a look at PPJN and check out the salary. 16,760 UAE Dirhams a month. Crumbs. That's 201120 Dirhams a year. Sounds like big number. But, lets convert it back to Sterling. Ouch. Only £29365 per annum and no allowances. Thats just 2k more than a London Tube driver who gets 40 days holiday a year.. Still, I could be a pilot of the worlds biggest people carrier and transport even more SLF than a Tube Driver. Across to the Balpa website. Apparently this new 'plane can fly for twenty hours. Golly, well at least I won't have to work that hard for my 30k. I can spend half my time at work asleep - unlike a Tube Driver. Must be worth the extra 2k then.
Then, I open the Times and read an interesting article on airline economics which quotes the following statistics:
Singapore Airlines Staff Costs: 29% of revenue.
British Airways Staff Costs: 20% of revenue.
Wait for it!
Emirates Airlines Staff Costs: 17% of revenue.
Ah, so they know how to squeeze the troops too.
Coincidentally I receive an email from a friend who is a Captain in the sand. He wants to come home and join Virgin as an FO. Why? Emirates fly him 100 hours month, he has 6 days off a month and the management are aggressive.
Well that doesn't sound so good does it?
Of course, there are benefits in kind with ex pat contracts. But, I have to ask, as a Father with two kids to educate, would I ever save any money in Dubai having paid for all goods and services?
I suspect not.
So, here we have it. Move to the Gulf, work flat out in a tedious job for what sounds like an another money pinching management, hardly ever see my kids and earn 30k. Great.
I think I'll stay in Blighty, ignore Tony Blair and stick with my (not very good but adequate) flying job.
Am I missing something?
Last edited by Compass Rose; 23rd Jan 2005 at 09:59.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Dubai, U.A.E.
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very well put!
And to answer your question, you are missing absolutely nothing!!
Of course there are those amongst us quoting the company line of accomodation and schooling and the really interesting one about it being tax free!
I suppose you live in your own home? And are your kids educated? Dont worry I will answer for you. YES
Plus your home is valued in Sterling and will continue to rise at market value.
Your kids will probably go to university in the UK one day, we will have to send them across and end up commuting to and fro to see them. But hey, I am a 380 pilot. WOW!! ( No Sarcasm intended. Yeah Right)
If you do not have to leave your present job, dont waste your time. It's not worth it both financially or proffessionaly.
Regards
And to answer your question, you are missing absolutely nothing!!
Of course there are those amongst us quoting the company line of accomodation and schooling and the really interesting one about it being tax free!
I suppose you live in your own home? And are your kids educated? Dont worry I will answer for you. YES
Plus your home is valued in Sterling and will continue to rise at market value.
Your kids will probably go to university in the UK one day, we will have to send them across and end up commuting to and fro to see them. But hey, I am a 380 pilot. WOW!! ( No Sarcasm intended. Yeah Right)
If you do not have to leave your present job, dont waste your time. It's not worth it both financially or proffessionaly.
Regards
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spot on Compass Rose
I've spent the last 4.5 years flying widebodies for a gulf airline and certainly the golden days for western expats in the gulf are well and truly over.
The billion dollar orders have to be paid for somehow and round this neck of the woods that means increasingly cheap labour and a gradual but incessant erosian of terms and conditions
Hence the arrival of large numbers of Malaysian, Philapino, Indonesian, Indian, South American etc.., pilots into the gulf these past six months to join the thousands of their fellow countrymen and women who already basically run these airlines anyway. Thats why the labour costs are so low in comparison to developed nation carriers.
And who can blame these nationalities really, for most of them its still a dream salary, they do the job as well as anybody else and for them its still well worth putting up with all the s**t that is part and parcel of working for the gulf arabs.
The trend will continue and their just starting with the Cadet pilot work for almost nothing schemes...
I'm heading home soon, for this European the numbers do not compensate the hassle any more
I've spent the last 4.5 years flying widebodies for a gulf airline and certainly the golden days for western expats in the gulf are well and truly over.
The billion dollar orders have to be paid for somehow and round this neck of the woods that means increasingly cheap labour and a gradual but incessant erosian of terms and conditions
Hence the arrival of large numbers of Malaysian, Philapino, Indonesian, Indian, South American etc.., pilots into the gulf these past six months to join the thousands of their fellow countrymen and women who already basically run these airlines anyway. Thats why the labour costs are so low in comparison to developed nation carriers.
And who can blame these nationalities really, for most of them its still a dream salary, they do the job as well as anybody else and for them its still well worth putting up with all the s**t that is part and parcel of working for the gulf arabs.
The trend will continue and their just starting with the Cadet pilot work for almost nothing schemes...
I'm heading home soon, for this European the numbers do not compensate the hassle any more
Last edited by AERO DYNAMIK; 22nd Jan 2005 at 08:30.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Compass Rose
No you did not miss a thing.
No Gulf Airline or those in Far East such as SQ etc are places that Pilots from countries that have strong currencies and high costs are worth joining these days. Those of us too old to move on have to grin and bear it until we retire.Luckily we had it good and can put up with a few bad years.
Some Pilots see the magic words tax free salaries and free accommodation and think it is too good to be true but what they don't realise is the salary is lower to make up for it!!
Others make the salary look good but include an accommodation allowance which rarely actually covers the costs. Likewise School Fees allowance over the years has been eroded so it only covers about half the fees in a lot of cases.
Others get carried away with lower cost of Petrol and cheaper vehicles.
At the end of the day when you retire to wherever and convert any savings or Provident Fund into your home currency then it suddenly dawns on you that perhaps it was not such a good idea afterall.
No you did not miss a thing.
No Gulf Airline or those in Far East such as SQ etc are places that Pilots from countries that have strong currencies and high costs are worth joining these days. Those of us too old to move on have to grin and bear it until we retire.Luckily we had it good and can put up with a few bad years.
Some Pilots see the magic words tax free salaries and free accommodation and think it is too good to be true but what they don't realise is the salary is lower to make up for it!!
Others make the salary look good but include an accommodation allowance which rarely actually covers the costs. Likewise School Fees allowance over the years has been eroded so it only covers about half the fees in a lot of cases.
Others get carried away with lower cost of Petrol and cheaper vehicles.
At the end of the day when you retire to wherever and convert any savings or Provident Fund into your home currency then it suddenly dawns on you that perhaps it was not such a good idea afterall.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Almaty
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting comparison ..... pilot or tube driver. Know which I prefer! Above the clouds or under the ground? And in the sky there are promotion prospects, what is the next step up for the tube driver? Try asking him what he would prefer. I am sure Emirates are not twisting your arm and they seem to have enough crew for their fleet so if you don't like their terms look elsewhere and give somebody else a chance. The hard economic fact is that no airline owes you a living.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
harrier46....all companies succeed or don't on the backs of thier employees under the leadership of senior employees....when "managers" loose sight of this, they become just that...managers instead of leaders, and the whole organization suffers....a company without leaders becomes disorganized..a company without employees becomes non existant....an airline might not owe a pilot a job, but it's very existence to the pilots, and all other employee groups....keep that in mind...
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: All over the show like a madwomans crap
Posts: 494
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
another one
Harrier, no, airlines dont "owe" us a living, but they certainly do "owe" us a decent salary and COS. The nature of the job entails alot of time away from the family, missing out on those important times, fatigue and constant jet lag etc. What price do YOU put on your professional career? Pilots are under continuous salary threat by people who have never had the responsibility an airline pilot has everytime he/she goes to work.
Nosey
Nosey
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: the zone
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a tube driver you are safely buried underground from the cancer causing cosmic rays that destroy your body as you sit infront of a windscreen at FL3X0 for hour after hour after hour...
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Global Nomad
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My Advice
Never accept employment as a pilot based on the equipment you might get to fly. After 3 months on line, the ego will be satisfied and the A380 will become just another aircraft.
At 45, I would not have contemplated moving except for exceptional circumstances.
Never accept employment as a pilot based on the equipment you might get to fly. After 3 months on line, the ego will be satisfied and the A380 will become just another aircraft.
At 45, I would not have contemplated moving except for exceptional circumstances.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: sunshine
Age: 70
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates Pilots....
Actually, the whole equation has changed over a period of time. It has always been important to assess what you save and not how much you earn. For European Pilots or people from developed countries with strong currencies Gulf and Far East is definitely not lucrative any more considering the sacrifice of staying away from family and in an alien environment. Even as an Indian , I dont find the salary offered greatly attractive for a 45 years old person considering all the above !!
