British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1
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jaarrg
To answer your questions in order-
1-LGW contracts are the same as LHR until you are 17 years in the company when the payscale at LGW goes flat- ie no more annual increments.
2-You can always ask for a later start date/different base but its a risky thing to do. Seniority counts for everything in BA, a few months difference in joining date could make many years difference later in your career when it comes to command/fleet transfers/etc. Also if the economy takes a turn for the worse and BA stop hiring,they will be under no obligation to offer you a course. Various rumours doing the rounds about grounding older aeroplanes if the oil price stays high. BA is as secure a job as you will find in the UK, I would say get in while you have the chance.
3-Your initial ('engagement') freeze is 5 years regardless of previous type rating. The Airbus is not a shrinking fleet so you are likely to stay on it for as long as they need you there- ie the full 5 years. You could start at LGW then ask for a base transfer, technically there would be no training cost. Not sure about the rules on that.
That said, Gatwick is a nice base to operate from, the rostering system is better (than LHR's) if you are junior. We have commuters from all over the UK and Europe who all seem to make it work for them.
Cheers and congratulations on getting in!
To answer your questions in order-
1-LGW contracts are the same as LHR until you are 17 years in the company when the payscale at LGW goes flat- ie no more annual increments.
2-You can always ask for a later start date/different base but its a risky thing to do. Seniority counts for everything in BA, a few months difference in joining date could make many years difference later in your career when it comes to command/fleet transfers/etc. Also if the economy takes a turn for the worse and BA stop hiring,they will be under no obligation to offer you a course. Various rumours doing the rounds about grounding older aeroplanes if the oil price stays high. BA is as secure a job as you will find in the UK, I would say get in while you have the chance.
3-Your initial ('engagement') freeze is 5 years regardless of previous type rating. The Airbus is not a shrinking fleet so you are likely to stay on it for as long as they need you there- ie the full 5 years. You could start at LGW then ask for a base transfer, technically there would be no training cost. Not sure about the rules on that.
That said, Gatwick is a nice base to operate from, the rostering system is better (than LHR's) if you are junior. We have commuters from all over the UK and Europe who all seem to make it work for them.
Cheers and congratulations on getting in!
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interview
Hi,
I recently did the interview and here are some of the questions I was asked:
Example of when you have had to think ‘outside the box’
Been involved in a severe/serious situation the impact of which became apparent.
Been involved in something you couldn’t cope with – out you depth. What did you do?
What is Willy Walsh thinking about when he goes to bed at night?
When have you had to put costs ahead of customer expectation?
Give an example of when you have taken ownership of a problem?
Hope they help!
Cheers
E
I recently did the interview and here are some of the questions I was asked:
Example of when you have had to think ‘outside the box’
Been involved in a severe/serious situation the impact of which became apparent.
Been involved in something you couldn’t cope with – out you depth. What did you do?
What is Willy Walsh thinking about when he goes to bed at night?
When have you had to put costs ahead of customer expectation?
Give an example of when you have taken ownership of a problem?
Hope they help!
Cheers
E
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JAARRG:
Jelly Doughnut has posted a pretty accurate, and IMO helpful, post to answer your questions, couple of further points:
Rostering at LGW uses the 'Carmen' system and has been said, can be better than BidLine (LHR fleets) if you are junior. That said, at LHR, a 'blind line', ie allocated line of work, will give you preferences that Pre-Ops do try and accomodate. Whether the result is good or bad all depends on what you are used to in your current employer I suppose! Once you reach about 80% seniority, you will probably start to get 'trip lines' and get some proper control over your roster. Bidline is also completely transparent. Don't know much about Carmen/LGW though.
as JD says, seniority is everything in BA, think long and hard before turning down a start date. God forbid, if you are in the hold pool and another event on the scale of 9/11 happened, you won't be starting any time soon and BA will, if/when they open recruitment again, require you to do the entire selection process again. Like the poor cadets who were supposed to fly out to Michigan on 12th September 01. Additionally, in the current climate, with talk of aircraft being stood down, recruitment is likely to slow up.
The good news: 747 fleet is desparately short of F/Os at the moment, I would be very surprised if, they didn't offer you the 747 based on the minimum requirements of ~2000hrs TT and 1000 Jet. Need 95 bums on seats this training year and so far not enough qualified DEPs to fill them.
Finally, yes the 'engagement' freeze is a nominal 5 years, but what it actually means is that BA can do what they want with you in that time. Sure you can bid to move (in BA if you don't bid, you don't get!!) but will only get approval if there is a vacancy that they can't fill with an internal guy or DEP. But, if the company force you to change fleets, you only get a 1 year freeze on that new fleet, so it's not all bad.
So, my opinion would be take the LGW Airbus if that's all they offer, ride it out for a couple of years and then see how you stand. By that time you will have got a decent seniority in the fleet whereas on the 744 and to a lesser extent the 777, you will be sat at the bottom for a long time, as internal guys come across above you.
Hope that's of some help to you, well done on getting into the hold pool. For LH-qualified people, I gather it's virtually empty. No idea about SH though.
Jelly Doughnut has posted a pretty accurate, and IMO helpful, post to answer your questions, couple of further points:
Rostering at LGW uses the 'Carmen' system and has been said, can be better than BidLine (LHR fleets) if you are junior. That said, at LHR, a 'blind line', ie allocated line of work, will give you preferences that Pre-Ops do try and accomodate. Whether the result is good or bad all depends on what you are used to in your current employer I suppose! Once you reach about 80% seniority, you will probably start to get 'trip lines' and get some proper control over your roster. Bidline is also completely transparent. Don't know much about Carmen/LGW though.
as JD says, seniority is everything in BA, think long and hard before turning down a start date. God forbid, if you are in the hold pool and another event on the scale of 9/11 happened, you won't be starting any time soon and BA will, if/when they open recruitment again, require you to do the entire selection process again. Like the poor cadets who were supposed to fly out to Michigan on 12th September 01. Additionally, in the current climate, with talk of aircraft being stood down, recruitment is likely to slow up.
The good news: 747 fleet is desparately short of F/Os at the moment, I would be very surprised if, they didn't offer you the 747 based on the minimum requirements of ~2000hrs TT and 1000 Jet. Need 95 bums on seats this training year and so far not enough qualified DEPs to fill them.
Finally, yes the 'engagement' freeze is a nominal 5 years, but what it actually means is that BA can do what they want with you in that time. Sure you can bid to move (in BA if you don't bid, you don't get!!) but will only get approval if there is a vacancy that they can't fill with an internal guy or DEP. But, if the company force you to change fleets, you only get a 1 year freeze on that new fleet, so it's not all bad.
So, my opinion would be take the LGW Airbus if that's all they offer, ride it out for a couple of years and then see how you stand. By that time you will have got a decent seniority in the fleet whereas on the 744 and to a lesser extent the 777, you will be sat at the bottom for a long time, as internal guys come across above you.
Hope that's of some help to you, well done on getting into the hold pool. For LH-qualified people, I gather it's virtually empty. No idea about SH though.
Last edited by katanapilot; 4th Jun 2008 at 11:24. Reason: spelling
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Does anyone know when the 2000 hours for LH fleet is taken? Is it your hours at application or at the time of being pulled out of the pool?
Could be relevant... assuming I get past the lovely day at Cranebank, of course
Could be relevant... assuming I get past the lovely day at Cranebank, of course
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would I be frozen on type for the standard five years even if airbus rated?
I believe you are frozen on type (airbus) but not base, a change of base incurs no additional freeze, so you could move base before 5 years are up. Requirments permitting of course.
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Yeh OK Jemy
Each to their own. Maybe she's not for everyone. I think some basic interview skills are needed and I don't think that you HAVE to go to Penny to get these and to past an interview at BA!
Each to their own. Maybe she's not for everyone. I think some basic interview skills are needed and I don't think that you HAVE to go to Penny to get these and to past an interview at BA!
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There are alternatives to Penny or Pilot Pete if you prefer not to travel. I used 'e-interviewpreparation.com' who are pilot focused.... they offer some useful freebies too. Again everyone has different ways to prepare but this worked for me.
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interview prep
blackred1443, there are alternatives to Penny or Pilot Pete if you prefer not to travel. I used 'e-interviewpreparation.com' who are pilot focused.... they offer some useful freebies too. Again each to their own but this worked for me.
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Many thanks to all those who posted advise and suggestions. I think the consensus is not to look a gift horse in the mouth and to take the first course offered. I shall console myself by buying a new motorbike for the commute (don't know where I will put the hat though!) Thanks again.
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Same questions as above... Is this an on going recruitment process that will last till the end of the year?
I am amazed to hear that BA can not find DEP's who have the correct qualifications...most pilots would give there right leg to get in...wouldn't they?
I am amazed to hear that BA can not find DEP's who have the correct qualifications...most pilots would give there right leg to get in...wouldn't they?
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The BA recruitment process takes you rapidly from Hero to Zero.
Once in you realise that the company value you less than the CSD, you are branded with 2 stripes for 4 years to remind you, your sole purpose on the fleet is to distance those ahead of you from the grotty trips. You've joined the 'safest' airline for employment protection but realise you are closest to the cliff edge if it goes wrong. You've surrendered seniority where you came from. Command is 18 years away LH, SH command will likely extend to 12 years now BA has it's new baby off the ground. Pension is crap. Your managers and everyone else in the airline hate you and it is currently embarrassing to admit who you work for.
On the plus side, the working atmosphere is great on the fd.
Once in you realise that the company value you less than the CSD, you are branded with 2 stripes for 4 years to remind you, your sole purpose on the fleet is to distance those ahead of you from the grotty trips. You've joined the 'safest' airline for employment protection but realise you are closest to the cliff edge if it goes wrong. You've surrendered seniority where you came from. Command is 18 years away LH, SH command will likely extend to 12 years now BA has it's new baby off the ground. Pension is crap. Your managers and everyone else in the airline hate you and it is currently embarrassing to admit who you work for.
On the plus side, the working atmosphere is great on the fd.
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I seem to recall not needing any 'interview coaching' 
Each to his own I suppose.
Recruitment is, as always, a flexible feast. With the airline tightening its collective belts to ride out the oil price fiasco and the possibility of laying up a couple of Jumbos over the winter coupled with reducing frequency on the less profitable routes could lead to a lull in the recruitment process.
But then, anyone preparing for an interview with the company would be aware of that wouldn't they?
Each to his own I suppose.
Recruitment is, as always, a flexible feast. With the airline tightening its collective belts to ride out the oil price fiasco and the possibility of laying up a couple of Jumbos over the winter coupled with reducing frequency on the less profitable routes could lead to a lull in the recruitment process.
But then, anyone preparing for an interview with the company would be aware of that wouldn't they?
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Flying Tom,
Thank you for your awe inspiring and self motivating reply. It's such a joy to see Pprune being used not for moans and gripes but real life, intuitive and insightful help from those on the other side of the fence.
Is there anyone else that could provide perhaps a neutral and balanced opinion?
Thank you for your awe inspiring and self motivating reply. It's such a joy to see Pprune being used not for moans and gripes but real life, intuitive and insightful help from those on the other side of the fence.
Is there anyone else that could provide perhaps a neutral and balanced opinion?
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Actually I thought Flying Toms summary was rather accurate. Great atmosphere on the flight deck (and downroute with other pilots), everything else is pretty much as he reports. Do not join BA if you need to feel valued.
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Wouldn't suprise me, six 757's to go by Feb 2009, 787 delayed by atleast 25 months and A380 likely to slip by 12 months. Not to mention the announcment that the winter flying program is to be scaled back. Pilot recruitment for the next 3 years was primarily due to expansion which is now non existent, obviously nothing official and all could change again tommorow.