Ba's DEP fleets

[touchedrunway?]

Have been told by a source that there may be Airbus induction courses on the 7th Jan 2005, B737 courses on the 6th, and B757/767 courses to be anounced a couple of weeks later?
No LH DEP's for the moment.
No further Non type rated recruitment for a while....unconfirmed??
Obviously have what they need.....bugger!!

[expedite_climb]

touchedrunway - there is a 744 DEP course with at least 5 people on it late Jan. None of them have type ratings.

[Absorbant With Wings]

expedite_climb,
That is exactly what the Galley FM grapevine told me earlier today. Any news on other offers for other fleets?

[Spearing Britney]

Anyone else heard of the 75/76 getting bodies, thought it was full? And isn't the 747 oversubscribed with internal bids? All change it seems...

[William A Bong]

If the take up rate for 747 -400 type rated crews was very low, how come that nine type rated f/o's from GSS all failed to get past day one of the interview process. If all of them are that poor why are BA allowing them to fly BA cargo? Or could it be that ES (the M O'L of the cargo world) at GSS is extending his dictatorship to BA as well.

[Carnage Matey!]

I doubt ES has any influence, he wasn't exactly the most popular man in BA when he was there. The interview process isn't intended to work out who can fly a 744, it's there to work out who will fit in with the BA culture and be able to operate effectively with other BA staff from all departments. It is by no means perfect, but it does weed out the extreme and the unusual characters. Sometimes perfectly good guys fall foul of the process, but thats exactly the same as any other job interview process anywhere else in the world. The question of flying BA cargo is irrelevant as GSS is a separate company (though it shouldn't be IMHO) and cargo doesn't answer back.

[think thin]

hands solo

how come i know somebody who has been taken on 737 at lgw?
to everyone : if you are a 737 Captain at Easyjet and 40 years old . would you go to B A or Virgin not married no kids and pissed off with the job. is the grass greener?

[snooky]

Think thin, don't know about Virgin, but if you're hacked off now it's probably a very mild dose compared to what BA will give you.
Be warned!

[skery1a]

Hi all

Question for the one's in the know,

From yesterday ba widened the criteria for DEP.

on top of type rated pilots the they are now looking for
non type rated jet and turbo prop pilots.
check it out on www.britishairwaysjobs.com

My questions are: 1.how many type rated pilots did they get?

2.how many pilots are they still looking for?

The only thing that seems strange to me in the process is
that all airlines are trying to safe money on all fronts, ie
making us flying around on minimum fuel and on the other hand spending vasts amount of money on recruitment, where they have
a pool of pilots ,ie GSS,BACX , they know everything they need to know from years, of training which is more less supervised by ba managers.
I probably haven't got the bigger picture or what.

[Shuttleworth]

Sick - you rightly said how BA have lowered the requirements....
Absolutely.!!!!! I hear that the recent interviews did not provide many "acceptable" ( their words) guys.

At this rate they will have to start sponsoring again!!!!!

I'm afraid our mgt here had no idea about the perception of BA in the job market.
Their initial advert for 777 or 747 type rated guys just highlighted their pompous attitude.

When the DEP req't was thrown up a year or so ago they thought other pilots would be beating down our door (all 777 or 747 type rated.)

Happily they are now seeing otherwise.

Thanks to pprune and other improved forms of info gathering .... guys realise that BA has certain drawbacks.

(i) Pay is only industry average.
(ii) Applicants now may NEVER get a command at BA
(iii) They (BA) work you very hard; eg 5 transatlantic trips per month on the 777 and you will NOT have a happy work life balance on any BA fleet with junior seniority. ( Bidline - the BA rostering system ensures that senior pilots get exactly what they want ... but it is always at someone elses expense... see other threads for info).
(iv) LHR is the worlds worst airport and operating there with BA's bizarre rules for ground transport and cabin crew hours will frustrate you !
(iiii) A family home in an area with good state schools near LHR will cost you 650K, maybe more. Commuting to LHR is not easy and journey times are unpredictable.


From what I can see, many guys are staying put in their existing outfits. ( except perhaps for the sad case of some of the MYT pilots) .
Some of my friends made moves to Cathay Cargo, Dragonair and are really glad now that they didn't join BA.
Others who did give up their seats(both left and right) with JMC, Midland etc and moved to BA in the last 5 years really regret it .

Many pilots reading this site, I suspect, aspire to Cathay, Emirates or Virgin but BA is not proving to be a desirable choice.

[africacore]

Guys,
I am on the elite fleet in a good position.
Cojo744 half way up the list
IMHO Do not touch Ba with a barge pole.
They think they (the management)are gods gift but are just arrogant.
VS CX EK - go for whovever pays the most money
No chance of a lh command,
Unless of course you have a fetish for fat and 50 mags,
have they stopped advertising for cabin crew in readers wives yet?
Africacore

[behind_the_second_midland]

Pulman

Before your selection.

As well as Whether/weather get a grip of strait/straight.

[expedite_climb]

Sick,

How many guys are seconded to GSS from BA ?

[tster744]

5 seconded to GSS at the moment

5 more to follow in this training year allegedy..

as was said earlier on...

The interview process isn't intended to work out who can fly a 744, it's there to work out who will fit in with the BA culture and be able to operate effectively with other BA staff from all departments

Which given the vitriol the GSS co-pilots have been dishing out to our guys on secondment and to other BA pilots downroute, entirely explains why non of them passed the selection!

They're playing into our hands tho - it only aids our case to bring it all back inhouse where it rightfully should be...

[Hand Solo]

Infact one wrote a letter to BALPA to express exactly that, and to ask why the GSS FOs are still being treated so abysmally.

Do you have a date for that letter? The only one similar in the Log I remember was from a retired BA 747 skipper who was working for GSS, no doubt for peanuts to supplement his 6 figure crystallised pension.

GSS may one day walk away from BA as a customer (or at least take on others) - Other customers ARE being actively sought; Then you know where you can stick your secondments.

GSS exists solely to serve BA World Cargo. Perhaps other customers will be found in due course, but how long will it take to get four or five 744Fs worth to replace BAWCs work? If GSS walk away then thats no bad thing for BA pilots. The work would have to be taken in house so there'd be no need for secondments, they'd all be bona fide BA jobs.

[Hand Solo]

The walking scenario is still unlikely despite a shortage of 744s. You'd need to find a single customer or group of customers who would commit to taking all BAWCs capacity on a long term basis at the same or better rates. There's no way BAWC would permit GSS to bump their cargo from some flights in favour of another customers, they're far too mercenary for that. I think the moment GSS failed to put BAWC first then BAWC would be the ones threatening to walk. They can take the loss, GSS can't.

I did ask Jim McAuslan about GSS prior to a recent BALPA meeting. He was of the opinion that the long term goal is for all the cargo work to be flown in-house by BA.

[4AD]

I've been amazed to read some of the posts from BA guys here. I'm in the hold pool and of course have my eyes open to the fact that BA isn't the company it was 10 years ago. But from the posts on this thread it seems most guys with a stable jet job in the UK are better staying put than leaving for Big Airways. Do people who joined BA from the likes of Midland and jmc really regret their decision? Or has time and a bit of misplaced nostalgia jaundiced their views?

Is life really that bad as a junior FO there?

[Human Factor]

Is life really that bad as a junior FO there?

Not necessarily. It depends which fleet you end up on and what your particular interest is. On the 777, you will do five or six trips a month (mainly Eastern Seaboard or Saudi). On the -400, you will do 4 trips a month (very similar trips to the 777 except you will get one 'seeded' trip per month - ie. JNB or LAX). On the short-haul fleets, you will work hard although destinations are less relevant, however you will have to compromise your whole month to achieve a specific day off (as is the case with longhaul). In all cases, you will work a lot of weekends. As your seniority increases, your lifestyle will improve. At my level, I achieve either decent trips or 95% of my desired days off, not both. In the top third, you would probably achieve both. There are likely to be very few places available on the -400, although a large number are to be recruited onto the 777. BA is now advertising for Self Sponsored pilots, who would almost certainly go onto the Airbus or the 737.

The only drawback is that if you join now, you're likely to remain junior for a lot longer than perhaps you would have done in the past. Personally, I have been in seven years and I'm a third of the way up the seniority list, as I joined at the start of the retirement bulge. I have at least twenty five years remaining (depending on the retirement age) and there are people who are younger and more senior than me. ie. They will still be very senior in BA after I retire!

Sadly, for anyone joining now, the retirement bulge has ended so there will be very little movement over the next few years. Looking further ahead, since the late 80's there has been a good spread of ages joining at relatively regular intervals, so the numbers of retirements will remain reasonably constant. There is unlikely to be another 'bulge'. This is before the 2006 legislation is taken into account.

Hope this helps. Once you've got some seniority, life improves immeasurably.

[4AD]

Human Factor

Thanks for the heads up. I'm not sure whether I'll see a lifestyle improvement if I move, but I guess the long term prospects for stability and suchlike are there. Minimun of ten years to command versus imminent command is a trickier issue to reconcile...

How many weekends might a junior guy expect to get off per month? Are we talking zero month in month out!?

Thanks for the gen.

[LVL CHG]

Seat hold issues

Let's say you get hired onto BA and you are put on the 737 fleet out of LGW. I believe there is a 3 year seat hold (maybe more). What is the likelihood that you could then successfully bid 777 FO? With only 3 years of seniority, what is the likelihood that you would still be on reserve (albeit on the 777 fleet) for many years to come?

Lastly, what is life like on the 737 out of LGW - positive or negative given the shorthaul lifestyle/sectors? How does it compare to shorthaul Airbus out of LHR?

Cheers